You're taking my views too far. If someone is sick (for example), it's not their fault and deserve help if it's needed. But, a healthy person that spends more than they make every year and then begs for help can kiss my sweet patootie.

In every successful marriage, one person ends up old and alone because their partner dies. My father was married to the same woman for 60 years, but today he's alone.

I'm not saying don't fall in love. I'm not saying don't have a relationship. I'm saying everything will flow smoother if each person takes care of their own needs and saves for their own rainy days. If she wants a new car and I don't, she can buy one and it won't effect me if she can't afford the payments.

Yeah, fair enough. I started reading a thread on here about political philosophy but all of the posts that I read were written by right wing libertarian types and I guess that I lumped you in with them.

I sort of agree with you anyway and it isn't really right to expect someone to pay for everything if you have an income of your own. All the same, if I ask someone out on a date I pay for the meal etc unless they want to pay for their own. It's a tricky one because a lot of the women out there are single mothers without a lot of spare cash.

This is really kinda beside the OP point (sex on the first date) but honestly, this could be pretty offensive to a lot of single moms who work their tails off to make sure things are in order for their kids and aren't looking for a handout on a date or otherwise.

Single mom's are probably MORE in tune with the idea of supporting themselves than many women because they've had to depend on themselves and no one else. In fact, I'd be willing to be that more single moms have a hard time accepting the generosity of a date paying for a meal than expect it.

Look into their eyes and see how much faith and trust they are putting in you when they swallow that pride and let you pick up the check...

I could care less of what a man thinks about me. It has way more to do with decideing if I actually like the man on any level other than sex. Sex is not rocket science: actually the easiest part of the relationship.

Since few men live in an absolute void it is also decideing if you like the other people in their life because they sure are going to be in part of your life if you have sex and the usual things that can follow if a relationship or pregnancy developes.

Well, this post is way out in the blue off topic. But,since it's directed at me I'll address it.

I think everything you said is true, but it's not it's not the complete picture. It's only what you've gleaned from these forums. I also have a fun, silly light hearted side that seldom comes out here.

I have no idea why any woman would want to go out with me. But, I never have trouble finding a date. So, I must have something going for me. But, this is no different than women.

Really, what does a woman have to offer a man that will make his life better other than sex? There was a time when a woman would wash a man's clothes, cook his food, clean his house and shine his shoes. But those days are over. Now he comes home to a dark house every night and cooks his own food. How is this any different than him being single?

I was married to a stay at home wife that still didn't clean the house! And if I asked about dinner she'd say "What am I? Your slave?" And she'd complain that I didn't help her out enough. When I lived alone, my house was clean. She thought I should make the living AND clean up after her.

Isn't it more honest to just be single and get together for sex when it's convenient for both?

I do have some roots. I still call the town I was born in home. My father still lives there and I see him every time I'm in town. My mother passed away a couple of years ago. She and my father were married for 60 years. Also my sons live there and I see them both at every opportunity.

I've never paid for sex and I'm a little insulted at the implication. I'm sure an insult was how you meant it, so give yourself a pat on the back. The greatest pleasure I derive from sex is pleasing my partner. Hookers are for the pleasure of the of the purchaser. So, me paying for sex would defeat the purpose of me having sex at all.

I don't like compromise. Compromising means neither partner is getting what they actually want. Compromise is a sad replacement for happiness in a relationship. The more compromising you have to do, the more likely it is you're with the wrong person.

Whether you care to admit it or not, there are women out there that abuse men. They take advantage of men by faining interest and trick these men into buying them gifts and dinners and paying their bills without ever having sex with them. I fell for it in my youth, but not anymore. I see women as equals in every way now. I wouldn't pay a man's rent for him, so why would I pay a woman's?

It's alright for a woman to insist on taking her time before investing sex in a relationship. That's just her protecting herself. But, if a man tries to protect himself from the attempts of a woman to get her hands on his assets or calls her out on her head games, he's a pig, a misogynist, a sexist or worse.

I guess I'm like a woman that's been tricked by a few "players." These women see players everywhere. I've been tricked by women, so now I see female trickery everywhere. Yes, I'm cynical.

Lastly, I don't want to kick her out. I want her to be independent. To have her own place and pay her own bills. I wouldn't expect her to support me and I won't support her. I've saved my money for my retirement and my sons. She can save hers or not. It's up to her and I don't care.

And the comment about the android was a joke.



For the most part, I agree on the main points. Women have demanded equality with males in all things and they have it and they are stuck with it. Equality must be rather demeaning for many; it certainly is in Europe. Equality is always to the lowest common denominator of anything. It is of no real value. Perhaps that is a hint as to why people treat each other so horribly with no conscience at all. People have lost their value. Just as what is 'normal' is relative,intolerance breeds quality. "Equality" isn't all what it was touted to be.

Well, this post is way out in the blue off topic. But,since it's directed at me I'll address it.

I think everything you said is true, but it's not it's not the complete picture. It's only what you've gleaned from these forums. I also have a fun, silly light hearted side that seldom comes out here.

I have no idea why any woman would want to go out with me. But, I never have trouble finding a date. So, I must have something going for me. But, this is no different than women.

Really, what does a woman have to offer a man that will make his life better other than sex? There was a time when a woman would wash a man's clothes, cook his food, clean his house and shine his shoes. But those days are over. Now he comes home to a dark house every night and cooks his own food. How is this any different than him being single?

I was married to a stay at home wife that still didn't clean the house! And if I asked about dinner she'd say "What am I? Your slave?" And she'd complain that I didn't help her out enough. When I lived alone, my house was clean. She thought I should make the living AND clean up after her.

Isn't it more honest to just be single and get together for sex when it's convenient for both?

I do have some roots. I still call the town I was born in home. My father still lives there and I see him every time I'm in town. My mother passed away a couple of years ago. She and my father were married for 60 years. Also my sons live there and I see them both at every opportunity.

I've never paid for sex and I'm a little insulted at the implication. I'm sure an insult was how you meant it, so give yourself a pat on the back. The greatest pleasure I derive from sex is pleasing my partner. Hookers are for the pleasure of the of the purchaser. So, me paying for sex would defeat the purpose of me having sex at all.

I don't like compromise. Compromising means neither partner is getting what they actually want. Compromise is a sad replacement for happiness in a relationship. The more compromising you have to do, the more likely it is you're with the wrong person.

Whether you care to admit it or not, there are women out there that abuse men. They take advantage of men by faining interest and trick these men into buying them gifts and dinners and paying their bills without ever having sex with them. I fell for it in my youth, but not anymore. I see women as equals in every way now. I wouldn't pay a man's rent for him, so why would I pay a woman's?

It's alright for a woman to insist on taking her time before investing sex in a relationship. That's just her protecting herself. But, if a man tries to protect himself from the attempts of a woman to get her hands on his assets or calls her out on her head games, he's a pig, a misogynist, a sexist or worse.

I guess I'm like a woman that's been tricked by a few "players." These women see players everywhere. I've been tricked by women, so now I see female trickery everywhere. Yes, I'm cynical.

Lastly, I don't want to kick her out. I want her to be independent. To have her own place and pay her own bills. I wouldn't expect her to support me and I won't support her. I've saved my money for my retirement and my sons. She can save hers or not. It's up to her and I don't care.

And the comment about the android was a joke.



For the most part, I agree on the main points. Women have demanded equality with males in all things and they have it and they are stuck with it. Equality must be rather demeaning for many; it certainly is in Europe. Equality is always to the lowest common denominator of anything. It is of no real value. Perhaps that is a hint as to why people treat each other so horribly with no conscience at all. People have lost their value. Just as what is 'normal' is relative,intolerance breeds quality. "Equality" isn't all what it was touted to be.



Allow this Man Pig Knuckledragger to just say this with all due conviction;

Sir, YOU ARE LEGENDARY! You have managed to capture how I feel so quintessentially! But I on the other hand am treated like I am second rate worth only scraps and hand me downs. Women really do treat men like an asset, not a person! I cannot get a date to save my life, at least a date with someone I want to date! Lots of women from Nigeria and Ghana want to date me. I guess owning my own truck outright and having my own place doesn't count for much. I am a nice guy but likewise I am an azzhole thanks to the trauma people put me through. So yes we can say we are molded to some extent by our environment including the people we are surrounded by.

I am likewise surprised we both agree and made the same observation in that women wanted Equality so bad and now they don't know how to deal with it! They still want us to live in their fantasy life of Princes and white horses and they live happily ever after in a castle. Yep, Disney and Television taught them well. Then came Sex in the City!

Stupid trash TV man bashing BS passed on to us as entertainment while teaching women how to be "Independent" in a rather frightening context. It widened the communication gap in a frightening way. Now it is the example a lot of women live by but when the real world comes knocking suddenly the real drama begins! They act like we are dray animals and suddenly they are smarter than us and in control of us. And some of the horse owners I know try to impose their control over a 600 pound (270 kilo) animal and they get kicked or bitten and cry about it. A horse that respects its owner is respected by its owner. And where there is respect there is no injuries dealt out! But now women want to be the master, not compatriot!

How much do you want to bet if I was able to manufacture HUMAN looking androids that were customizable the female sex slave models would not be a popular seller? After you buy the android itself all you need to do is spend just $49.00 and you get a stick memory with the necessary behavior changes, and the add on components for that special night. Clothing and recharge fluids are extra! ARTIFICIAL RHONDAS for sale anyone? And for the ladies...

How about that hunky construction man you always dreamed of? Or better yet that yard keeper you always swoon to? Its all add on parts and you can say no to him whenever you want! God only knows what other surrogate lovers people come up with mechanically including among the animal kingdom! Then again this is the internet... Some of already know just how sick it can get... Eels... I am stopping myself now!

People are just messed up and all you have to do is say the word sex and suddenly everything gets silent and people here in this country either look at you like you dare yell FUCQ out loud in public or suddenly they want to overcompensate with new found sexual freedom. Its bad enough some gay guys got to go completely overboard with their gayness!!!



politics maybe? But then again look at the attitudes of some of these liberated women... the oppressed become the oppressors! And the cycle continues!


now for a question to all you in radio land. What constitutes a slut?

1) has sex for drugs?
2) has sex with anything? Animate and Inanimate? Woof woof included...
3) knowingly screws married men and the BFs of their friends in secret?
4) not only dresses provocatively but likewise dresses for easy access?
***Note*** I am not talking about whores or prostitutes, depends on which term you want to use or how PC you feel about the subject, they get paid for a job! They DO NOT COUNT HERE! So being paid for sex really is not an issue here... Or does it???
5) uses sex for barter?
6) likes group sex? (I had to say this but really I am not sure this stands as a viable criteria. Just had to toss it out for controversy sake.)
7) has NO morals other than self indulgence?
8) cares less about the spread of STDs?

What criteria do we use to be able to call a woman a slut?

Frankly if Stella gets her grove on with five men I could care less. I don't want to be part of a scene like that! But if Stella is happy with it as are the men with her, then FUCQING GROOVY! There is a little more joy in this world than there was before! But what does constitute a slut?

Yeah sure, my last girlfriend was a single mother and she was working two jobs and she would pay for the meal or whatever if she asked me out. I wasn't saying that all single mothers are going to expect you to support them or their kids or expect you to pay for everything. Some of them might but I wasn't having a go at single mums. Just saying that they tend to not have a lot of spare cash and that can be a problem if you are dating someone. Sorry for going off topic. I wish they would just split threads on this forum.

No one else? What about child support? What about alimony? If she's has kids, odds are there's a man in the picture somewhere helping to bankroll her lifestyle.

I'm not saying the kids shouldn't have the support of their dads. I'm only pointing out she's not likely doing it all alone.

Yep.

What I'd like to know is why people are worrying when others are having sex? If you don't approve of sex on the first date, but someone else does, who cares? If you want sex on the first date and someone else doesn't, find someone who does. Why worry about what others think?

Wanna bet? There are a lot of women who are doing it alone. Some are getting help from the State, and the State will sometimes turn around and aggressively go after the father for support if they know who he is.

Some father's just skip out to another state.

I've met more who are doing it alone than not...That is not to say there are more, it is to say there are way too many men skipping out on their children.....

I agree. If you want to, just go for it.

But, when so many women have said they know if they want sex with a man after only a few seconds, but still put it off, there must be a reason. This reason was what I wanted to get at.

There have been a few posts that made perfect sense. She's having her period is an example. But, there was at least one post that came very close to admitting she was playing a head game and power play on her part. I think this kind of power grab goes on more than women care to admit.



Well, who decided to have a child with a dead beat, loser? Abortion is legal and easily accessible.

Yes, that kind of thing happens, but it's not the norm. For the most part, dads pay they're fair share.

BTW when I got custody of my first son I never saw a dime of child support. I also didn't go to the state begging for help.

People have given reasons ranging from just not wanting to that quickly, to getting to know someone better, to seeing if he'll stick around if he has to wait and so on. They may not be the reasons you're looking for, but they've given reasons.

Me? I think it would be nice (and TMI quite a change) just to have sex on any date. First, third, tenth, hundreth, any really, that would be awesome!


Of course, someone might have to explain to me what we do again, I don't really remember.

If she wants to have sex with him, she must know him well enough. If she didn't, she wouldn't have decided she wanted sex with him. So, why wait?

Seeing if he'll stick around is just another game. He could just as easily not stick around because he's not getting sex.

Well, who decided to have a child with a dead beat, loser? Abortion is legal and easily accessible.




Some women don't believe in abortion which is a whole other topic, but maybe just maybe she didn't know this "deadbeat,loser" well enough before having sex with him (fyi, condoms aren't always 100% foolproof).

It's not about abortion being right or wrong. It's about having a child you cannot support.

There's also adoption. I was adopted myself. There are lots of people that can't have kids of their own that would love to adopt.

Condoms may not be 100% effective. But, if you combine them with others forms of birth control, such as spermicides, they pretty much are.

I disagree. You can be attracted to someone and want to have sex with them, yet want to wait and get to know them better. Wanting to have sex with someone does not mean you know a person well by any means.

You said reasons. I listed a few of the reasons women mentioned. Some of those reasons are games. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it isn't a reason to someone.

No head game....and i agree with Sweets.

The initial physical attraction may be there to begin with...but i'm more inclined to check the rest of the package out through conversation and where his head is at before i decide i want to jump his bones...or not.

He could be drop dead gorgeous, but a total dik.