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| Topic: US, Israel downplayed Palestinians' upgraded status @ UN | |
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actually,that the Genetic Research proved you all wrong! Only in your poor deluded dreams. 
Unless,of course it is another one of those nefarious Zionist Conspiracies! 
Or you all could bring your own genetic Research to the table,instead of subjective assertions! The genetic research you cited is nothing more than a specious argument to support a fallacious claim of Jews to the holy land...Live with it. 
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Edited by
Conrad_73
on
Tue 12/11/12 02:08 PM
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Tom Segev wrote that Sand's book "is intended to promote the idea that Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' - Jews, Arabs and others - in contrast to its declared identity as a 'Jewish and democratic' state" and that the book is generally "well-written" and includes "numerous facts and insights that many Israelis will be astonished to read for the first time". I agree that Israel has a right to exist as a State, but NOT as a "Jewish State." That is ridiculous idea. Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' then there would not be so much bigotry and racial prejudice and profiling. But if they insist on being a "Jewish State" they should demand that all those who claim to be Jews should get a DNA test and should be devout practitioners of the Judaism religion. Otherwise this nonsense about a "Jewish State" is just a bunch of bigotry and prejudice and profiling. The idea in my opinion is utterly absurd and ignorant. 
Yeah,Tom Segev,defender of Grass! Some reputation! 
One Pot and two Kettles! Sand,Segev and Grass!
Then poor Segev was sooo disappointed. Hope the same thing won't happen to him about Sand! But then,both of them are Birds of a Feather! |
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actually,that the Genetic Research proved you all wrong! Only in your poor deluded dreams.
Unless,of course it is another one of those nefarious Zionist Conspiracies!
Or you all could bring your own genetic Research to the table,instead of subjective assertions! The genetic research you cited is nothing more than a specious argument to support a fallacious claim of Jews to the holy land...Live with it.
Don't surprises me,though! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 12/11/12 02:10 PM
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Alright Conrad, then see if you can explain to the world why the Askenazi non-religious Zionist's of Israel have a right to be in Israel if they were not actually born there?
Also please explain why Israel has a right to be a "Jewish State." I will wait for your explanation. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 12/11/12 02:12 PM
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In a nutshell, why does Israel have a right to exist as a Jewish State?
And what exactly is a "Jewish State?" For that matter what exactly is a Jew? Who qualifies as a full blown Jew in Israel? 
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Tom Segev wrote that Sand's book "is intended to promote the idea that Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' - Jews, Arabs and others - in contrast to its declared identity as a 'Jewish and democratic' state" and that the book is generally "well-written" and includes "numerous facts and insights that many Israelis will be astonished to read for the first time". I agree that Israel has a right to exist as a State, but NOT as a "Jewish State." That is ridiculous idea. Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' then there would not be so much bigotry and racial prejudice and profiling. But if they insist on being a "Jewish State" they should demand that all those who claim to be Jews should get a DNA test and should be devout practitioners of the Judaism religion. Otherwise this nonsense about a "Jewish State" is just a bunch of bigotry and prejudice and profiling. The idea in my opinion is utterly absurd and ignorant.
Yeah,Tom Segev,defender of Grass! Some reputation!
One Pot and two Kettles! Sand,Segev and Grass!
Then poor Segev was sooo disappointed. Hope the same thing won't happen to him about Sand! But then,both of them are Birds of a Feather! Attacking the messenger? I was just quoting a line of text from a link that YOU provided to Wiki pedia. and I do agree that Israel has a right to exist as a State, but NOT as a "Jewish State." (Who is Grass?) |
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Tom Segev wrote that Sand's book "is intended to promote the idea that Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' - Jews, Arabs and others - in contrast to its declared identity as a 'Jewish and democratic' state" and that the book is generally "well-written" and includes "numerous facts and insights that many Israelis will be astonished to read for the first time". I agree that Israel has a right to exist as a State, but NOT as a "Jewish State." That is ridiculous idea. Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' then there would not be so much bigotry and racial prejudice and profiling. But if they insist on being a "Jewish State" they should demand that all those who claim to be Jews should get a DNA test and should be devout practitioners of the Judaism religion. Otherwise this nonsense about a "Jewish State" is just a bunch of bigotry and prejudice and profiling. The idea in my opinion is utterly absurd and ignorant.
Yeah,Tom Segev,defender of Grass! Some reputation!
One Pot and two Kettles! Sand,Segev and Grass!
Then poor Segev was sooo disappointed. Hope the same thing won't happen to him about Sand! But then,both of them are Birds of a Feather! Don't knock Segev...At least he was born on that land and therefore has some rightful claim to it whether he's jewish or not. (though he happens to be a Jew of great repute). |
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Tom Segev wrote that Sand's book "is intended to promote the idea that Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' - Jews, Arabs and others - in contrast to its declared identity as a 'Jewish and democratic' state" and that the book is generally "well-written" and includes "numerous facts and insights that many Israelis will be astonished to read for the first time". I agree that Israel has a right to exist as a State, but NOT as a "Jewish State." That is ridiculous idea. Israel should be a 'state of all its citizens' then there would not be so much bigotry and racial prejudice and profiling. But if they insist on being a "Jewish State" they should demand that all those who claim to be Jews should get a DNA test and should be devout practitioners of the Judaism religion. Otherwise this nonsense about a "Jewish State" is just a bunch of bigotry and prejudice and profiling. The idea in my opinion is utterly absurd and ignorant.
Yeah,Tom Segev,defender of Grass! Some reputation!
One Pot and two Kettles! Sand,Segev and Grass!
Then poor Segev was sooo disappointed. Hope the same thing won't happen to him about Sand! But then,both of them are Birds of a Feather! Don't knock Segev...At least he was born on that land and therefore has some rightful claim to it whether he's jewish or not. (though he happens to be a Jew of great repute).
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 12/11/12 02:21 PM
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A Pro-Zionist will knock any Jew who is not pro-Zionist and kiss the butt of any non-Jewish Zionist.
Its not about Jews, its about politics and Zionism. Zionism is the closest thing to Nazism in existence. |
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Alright Conrad, then see if you can explain to the world why the Askenazi non-religious Zionist's of Israel have a right to be in Israel if they were not actually born there? Also please explain why Israel has a right to be a "Jewish State." I will wait for your explanation. Or has that taken the wind out of your Sails! Seems so! |
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Alright Conrad, then see if you can explain to the world why the Askenazi non-religious Zionist's of Israel have a right to be in Israel if they were not actually born there? Also please explain why Israel has a right to be a "Jewish State." I will wait for your explanation. Or has that taken the wind out of your Sails! Seems so! Still waiting. Explain to the world why the Askenazi non-religious Zionist's of Israel have a right to be in Israel if they were not actually born there? Also please explain why Israel has a right to be a "Jewish State." The Genetics have nothing to do with these questions. If you think they do, then please explain. |
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A Pro-Zionist will knock any Jew who is not pro-Zionist and kiss the butt of any non-Jewish Zionist. Its not about Jews, its about politics and Zionism. Zionism is the closest thing to Nazism in existence.
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Still waiting for your answer:
Explain to the world why the Askenazi non-religious Zionist's of Israel have a right to be in Israel if they were not actually born there? Also please explain why Israel has a right to be a "Jewish State." The Genetics have nothing to do with these questions. If you think they do, then please explain. |
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Analysis of Jewish genomes refutes the Khazar claim. What are you claiming?...that the asian Khazars descend from Abraham (like hundreds of millions and probably billions of other gentiles), or that Khazaria never became Jewish by conversion? http://www.khazaria.com/ Hebrews=Jews so there is no problem there. Hebrews≠>Jews, so there IS a problem there. The problem is erroneously equating a proselytizing religion (Judaism) with a genetic/ethnic (Semitic, Hebrew) origin. In fact, many Hebrews didn't adopt Judaism, and of those who did (some twenty-five hundred years ago), many "genetic Jews" have converted away to other religions (such as Islam). 1. The theory that Ashkenazi Jews are primarily descended from Khazars is a load of dung beetle food. The theory that all or most Ashkenazi Jews might be descended from Khazars dates back to the racial studies of late 19th century Europe. In most cases it has been cited to assert that most modern Jews are not descended from Israelites and/or to refute Israeli claims to Israel. It was first publicly proposed in lecture given by the racial-theorist Ernest Renan on January 27, 1883, titled "Judaism as a Race and as Religion."[72] It was repeated in articles in The Dearborn Independent in 1923 and 1925, and popularized by racial theorist Lothrop Stoddard in a 1926 article in the Forum titled "The Pedigree of Judah", where he argued that Ashkenazi Jews were a mix of people, of which the Khazars were a primary element. The Khazar theory still enjoys popularity among anti-Zionists[55] and antisemites.[80] Such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists. In the 1970s and 80s the Khazar theory was also advanced by some Russian chauvinist antisemites, particularly the historian Lev Gumilyov, who portrayed "Judeo-Khazars" as having repeatedly sabotaged Russia's development since the 7th century.[81] Bernard Lewis, stated in 1999: This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics. =-=-= The genetic evidence also shows that the Khazar theory of the origin of Ashkenazi Jews is a asinine. A 1999 study by Hammer et al., published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."[82] According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism. A 2010 study on Jewish ancestry by Atzmon et al. says "Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry. In August 2012, Dr. Harry Ostrer summarizing his, as well as all genetic studies carried out in last 20 years, stated in his book "Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People" that all major Jewish groups do have common Middle Eastern origin, originating from ancient Israelites, and refuted any large scale genetic contribution from the Turkic Khazars. 2. Hebrews (Hebrew: עברים or עבריים, Tiberian ʿIḇrîm, ʿIḇriyyîm; Modern Hebrew ʿIvrim, ʿIvriyyim; ISO 259-3 ʕibrim, ʕibriyim) is an ethnonym used in the Tanakh (Jewish Bible). It is mostly taken as synonymous with the Semitic Israelites.[1] By the Roman era, Greek Hebraios could refer to the Jews in general, as Strong's Hebrew Dictionary puts it "any of the Jewish Nation"[2] and at other times more specifically to the Jews living in Judea. The Old Testament of the Christian Bible uses Hebrews and Jews interchangeably, in the Book Of Esther (2:5) Mordechai the Benjamite is called a Jew,[3] though he is not of the tribe of Judah. In Jonah 1:9 Jonah is called a Hebrew.[4] In Armenian, Italian, Kurdish, Old French and a few other languages the transfer of the name from Hebrew to Jew never took place, and 'Hebrew' is the primary used word for a Jew. Jews are also called Hebrews which refers to the language of Jews. |
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Analysis of Jewish genomes refutes the Khazar claim. What are you claiming?...that the asian Khazars descend from Abraham (like hundreds of millions and probably billions of other gentiles), or that Khazaria never became Jewish by conversion? http://www.khazaria.com/ Hebrews=Jews so there is no problem there. Hebrews≠>Jews, so there IS a problem there. The problem is erroneously equating a proselytizing religion (Judaism) with a genetic/ethnic (Semitic, Hebrew) origin. In fact, many Hebrews didn't adopt Judaism, and of those who did (some twenty-five hundred years ago), many "genetic Jews" have converted away to other religions (such as Islam). 1. The theory that Ashkenazi Jews are primarily descended from Khazars is a load of dung beetle food. The theory that all or most Ashkenazi Jews might be descended from Khazars dates back to the racial studies of late 19th century Europe. In most cases it has been cited to assert that most modern Jews are not descended from Israelites and/or to refute Israeli claims to Israel. It was first publicly proposed in lecture given by the racial-theorist Ernest Renan on January 27, 1883, titled "Judaism as a Race and as Religion."[72] It was repeated in articles in The Dearborn Independent in 1923 and 1925, and popularized by racial theorist Lothrop Stoddard in a 1926 article in the Forum titled "The Pedigree of Judah", where he argued that Ashkenazi Jews were a mix of people, of which the Khazars were a primary element. The Khazar theory still enjoys popularity among anti-Zionists[55] and antisemites.[80] Such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists. In the 1970s and 80s the Khazar theory was also advanced by some Russian chauvinist antisemites, particularly the historian Lev Gumilyov, who portrayed "Judeo-Khazars" as having repeatedly sabotaged Russia's development since the 7th century.[81] Bernard Lewis, stated in 1999: This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics. =-=-= The genetic evidence also shows that the Khazar theory of the origin of Ashkenazi Jews is a asinine. A 1999 study by Hammer et al., published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."[82] According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism. A 2010 study on Jewish ancestry by Atzmon et al. says "Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry. In August 2012, Dr. Harry Ostrer summarizing his, as well as all genetic studies carried out in last 20 years, stated in his book "Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People" that all major Jewish groups do have common Middle Eastern origin, originating from ancient Israelites, and refuted any large scale genetic contribution from the Turkic Khazars. 2. Hebrews (Hebrew: עברים or עבריים, Tiberian ʿIḇrîm, ʿIḇriyyîm; Modern Hebrew ʿIvrim, ʿIvriyyim; ISO 259-3 ʕibrim, ʕibriyim) is an ethnonym used in the Tanakh (Jewish Bible). It is mostly taken as synonymous with the Semitic Israelites.[1] By the Roman era, Greek Hebraios could refer to the Jews in general, as Strong's Hebrew Dictionary puts it "any of the Jewish Nation"[2] and at other times more specifically to the Jews living in Judea. The Old Testament of the Christian Bible uses Hebrews and Jews interchangeably, in the Book Of Esther (2:5) Mordechai the Benjamite is called a Jew,[3] though he is not of the tribe of Judah. In Jonah 1:9 Jonah is called a Hebrew.[4] In Armenian, Italian, Kurdish, Old French and a few other languages the transfer of the name from Hebrew to Jew never took place, and 'Hebrew' is the primary used word for a Jew. Jews are also called Hebrews which refers to the language of Jews. 1. The theory that Ashkenazi Jews are primarily descended from Khazars is a load of dung beetle food. The theory that all or most Ashkenazi Jews might be descended from Khazars dates back to the racial studies of late 19th century Europe. In most cases it has been cited to assert that most modern Jews are not descended from Israelites and/or to refute Israeli claims to Israel. Who is putting forth either of those theories besides you?…certainly not me! I smell a couple of red herrings.
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Edited by
HotRodDeluxe
on
Tue 12/11/12 03:52 PM
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Still Jew bashing I see.
The choreographer lives! |
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Still Jew bashing I see.
The choreographer lives! Your post makes no sense. Who's bashing Jews? |
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Still Jew bashing I see.
The choreographer lives! Your post makes no sense. Who's bashing Jews? Who indeed? 
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Anytime anyone discusses Israel and Zionist politics in a manner that disagrees with common western B.S. propaganda, there are those few people who will begin to cry "Jew basher!" without actually addressing the real issue being discussed.
The hard truth is, Israel is wrong. |
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Edited by
HotRodDeluxe
on
Tue 12/11/12 04:12 PM
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Anytime anyone discusses Israel and Zionist politics in a manner that disagrees with common western B.S. propaganda, there are those few people who will begin to cry "Jew basher!" without actually addressing the real issue being discussed. The hard truth is, Israel is wrong. The orchestra is in tune tonight.
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