I agree with msharmony, and would add that the man must consider the views of his partner before making any decisions, this is the basis for a successful relationship in my opinion.

When two people compromise, neither gets what they really want. This week we see your movie and next week we'll see mine. But, what if neither wants to sit through the other's movie? I suppose we could each see our own movies alone, but that defeats the purpose of going out. Or we could see a movie neither of us is really interested in.

And what happens when one person doesn't hold up their end? Going back to the dog example, she says she'll take care of the dog fully. But, six months later the dog still isn't house trained and I have to watch where I walk. Would I be right in insisting the dog must go?

Negotiation and compromise work well in business, but in personal relationships they fall short because it's a life time agreement.

Another problem I've come across is she wants something and is willing to compromise by giving me something, but there simply isn't anything I want. So, she has nothing to bargain with.

At this point they usually start withholding sex. I refuse to negotiate for sex because she's not a hooker. She gets at least as much from sex as I do, so she isn't giving anything up.

I guess the best solution is do what I do; stay single and give up the idea of a relationship. Works for me.

I'm not looking for a "boss." And I wouldn't want to be part of a relationship where a man expected me to "play boss" all the time either...I don't want to get caught-up in "ego-games" or silly competitions...I don't want to make everything about "winning" and getting my "way" all the time. And I wouldn't want to be with a man who was "dead-set" on having his "own way" all the time either...There's something to be said for wanting to see the people we love "happy." And this involves being fair and taking everyones' wants and needs and goals in life "into account."...Little kids insist on having their "own way" all the time or being "number one" etc...But none of this works very well when it comes to adult partnerships. We have to learn how to "share" and "take turns." And sincerely care about the welfare and well-being of our spouse (or partner) in order to create a happy and satisfying relationship that "lasts" through the years. (Versus winding-up in divorce court over and over again!)....This is how I feel anyway! My first 2 marriages "flopped." (Too many silly "games!") But my 3rd marriage was more of a "win-win partnership" and it "lasted!"

Thanks for bringing back some sanity to this Thread. Your third marriage is exactly what I was trying to give an example of but I seemed to have failed miserably. Sometimes; its hard to express in words what we want to say but you did it so eloquently.

navygirl...Thanks...Sometimes we have to put up with a lot of "crud" in the outside world. (Silly "games" and competition where we work and pressure to perform and conform etc.)...It's nice to have a "safe-haven" at home where we don't have to "watch our back." Or worry about being pulled into silly "one-up" and "one-down" kind of "games." Don't you think?...I don't want to feel obligated to hold myself "back" because my achievements might "threaten" my man's ego...I wouldn't want to be with a "fragile" and insecure man in the first place. (And a man like this wouldn't be happy or pleased with me either.)...My first 2 husbands were more on the "insecure side" even though they both "did well" in life...My 3rd husband was a "bring it on" and the "more the merrier" kind of guy. He didn't view me as "his competition."..And to be honest neither one of us were highly competitive people...We set goals for ourselves and kept our eyes on the "ball" versus comparing ourselves unfavorably to other people...Anyway I enjoyed being part of a "win-win" type of relationship. (Minus all the silly "games" and "set roles" and non-stop competition etc.)

Anyone who "goes along" all the time is bound to feel resentful at some point. Don't you think? And this applies to both men or women...And there is a danger of becoming "boring." It can be boring to live with a total "people pleaser" and a spouse who doesn't have much of an identity of his/her own...Two strong people can live together without turning every little thing into a "do or die" conflict or a major "contest of wills" etc...But it takes some "work" and a desire to act like "grown-ups" and "best friends." Don't you think?

Anyone who "goes along" all the time is bound to feel resentful at some point. Don't you think? And this applies to both men or women...And there is a danger of becoming "boring." It can be boring to live with a total "people pleaser" and a spouse who doesn't have much of an identity of his/her own...Two strong people can live together without turning every little thing into a "do or die" conflict or a major "contest of wills" etc...But it takes some "work" and a desire to act like "grown-ups" and "best friends." Don't you think?

Role playing goes much further than just sub or dom. Its about getting into character and being something your not.

Men like your third husband are truly hard to come by. Not only was your husband secure; but sounds like he was very wise as well. I get all the insecure guys that do play games. My friend Lee keeps asking why I am single and my answer is all the good ones are taken.

I agree...And roles can be so limiting and inhibiting too...There are tons of unspoken rules and taboo's and expectations about how everyone is suppose to "act" to stay "in character."

This is a complex topic.

But, it's still my opinion that relationships do better and last longer when one partner is dominant and one submissive. This isn't usually apparent on the surface. It's very subtle. I'm not talking about Masters and slaves. It's more like a good work relationship with your boss. Everyone does their share, but one needs to be in charge and steer the coarse. They do not compete with each other. If one does well, so does the other. It may even be that neither partner knows one is leading. They just don't think about it because both are happy in their rolls. I know this is true among my friends. They will all say they are both equal. But, they aren't and I see it even if they don't.

All my friends with marriages that have lasted over 25 years have this in common. They may look equal at a glance, but if you look closely one partner is leading the other. Sometimes the man, sometimes the woman. One leads the other trusts.

Even in the gay community it's understood that 100% equality between longterm partners just doesn't work.

Look closely at couples that have stood the test of time and I'm sure you'll see it too.

navygirl...Some men don't show-up until later in life...Take my husband for example..He didn't always get his "needs met" and didn't always feel valued or appreciated by his first wife...But he "hung-in" because they had kids and he was loyal and faithful...My husband said he tried to throw the roles away (through the years) so he and his first wife could become closer and better friends. (And be more real and authentic with each other.)...But his first wife wanted to keep things the "same." In the end she "messed-up" by having affairs with a couple of men who loved playing-out roles...Of course these men weren't looking for anything "permanent" with her...Later in life my husband was "set free" and we eventually met and turned out to be a "great match" for each other...Some of the "good guys" (and non "role-players") are still tucked-away inside first marriages for now...They may get "kicked-out" at some point. Or they may decide to leave on their own.

I swear, I wanna be like you when I grow up


right on!!

only if you stick in one role

people are complex, diverse, adaptable

many 'roles' are merely less prominent parts of ourselves already

no harm in giving them equal time,,,,

exactly

we have to have communication where my ability, intelligence, point of view is just as significant as his

Again; I think your third husband was wise. He stepped out of his comfort zone and threw the role playing out the window. He saw the wisdom of throwing the roles away and just letting you and he be the persons you were meant to be. To me this is the best kind of growth in a human being there ever was. I personally think traditional role playing is boring as it limits your potential as a person and a partner. I think with me its too late to go down that road as men my age are set in their ways and so am I. I will always have my guy friends that will stay in the friend zone and I will always have their friendship.

I think it depends on specific areas...When my husband was alive he might take a little more of a "lead" in one area and I might take the "lead" regarding other matters. (Depending on our skills and expertise in each area or just our "interest" etc.)...Neither one of us felt like the "leader" or "head" of the family all by ourselves...We considered ourselves "equals" and partners and best friends for life....Someone might take the "lead" in getting something "started." (Bringing a topic up for discussion or working on some ideas or plans independently etc.) But we discussed everything together and made mutual decisions.

I said exactly this several pages ago.

Great posts and discussion...Thanks! I have to leave for a bit. More later. Thanks!