so if spanking don't work....what's next?




perhaps you need to go to Satan's dictionary and find where prophecy or full filling a prophecy means to stop following a law

because you are confuse as to what both a prophecy and a law are

the false premise of an absolute order of things shows a complete inexperience with raising children

discipline and guidance and love are all ongoing parts of raising children, funches, there is no absolute order as the process is never ending ,,,,



ask the same question of any other parts to child rearing, and perhaps you will get my meaning

do we kiss and hug, before, after, or during providing shelter?


there isnt a correct answer to that one either,,,,,they can occur simultaneously, or at different times,,,


hopefully, a PARENT would understand this,,,

physically we would not HUG while spanking,, but other expressions of love can occure before or AFTER and usually do as they are

ONGOING<,,,,

because there isnt an abundance of situations where someone without arms would be using a physical discipline on their children

we can come up with exceptional situations (not non existent but CLEARLY exceptions) to keep any debate going for the sake of argument,, that is not something I am interested in doing,,,

then MsHarmony... you should have no problem with what Creflo was accused of doing to his daughter ...according to your theory, it all falls under the title of discipline

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion...but then again all that is required is one



come on MsHarmony..don't try to back out now...the point I'm trying to make is if you consider kicking a child in the butt abuse or not

Cowboy ran from the question...will you?

all apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples

discipline is the apple, but there are other actions which are other fruits...


IF he choked her, he was wrong
I do not believe he did


I have no 'theory' that suggests choking kids discipline, IM sure the numbers show how many people have actually been KILLED by being choked, its not a 'disciplinary' measure

the risk of being 'killed' by a spanking is not even comparable


I am not the one trying aimlessly to compare every physical action towards a child under the umbrella of 'discipline'

it isnt a question that has a correct answer,,,its not a black and white issue,,, too many other variables to consider

is making a child sit in a chair abuse?

not if the chair is in an open space, yes IF the chair is in a locked closet



is kicking a child in the butt abuse,,,,in most cases it probably is,, in some cases Im sure it isnt,,,

playful kicking, no
hurtful kicking, yes
kung fu training kicking, no
aggressive kicking intended to harm,, yes

it will never be as black and white as these 'debates' continue to try and make it

so the best advice is do what works for the balance in YOUR OWN family, and stop trying to assume what balance another family needs,,,

wasn't that the defense Adam and Eve tried to use



so how did that work out for Adam and Eve



anytime you stike someone there is a risk of killing them....but that was not pertaining to the question asked

you keep insisting that discipline is not black and white ...but yet claim that if Creflo actually choked his daughter as a form of discipline that it's wrong

you're contradicting yourself

not really

broad terms are not black and white
details are

choking is not discipline, as choking cuts off the supply of oxygen that is NEEDED for life,,,it is a very high risk and irresponsible behavior that should not be practiced on a child


and apples have nothing to do with Adam and Eve, apples are the false ASSUMPTION made by those who read about Adam and Eve and the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

MsHarmony ...remember we are discussing discipline

so if an armless or armed parent repetitiously kicked their child in the butt ..is it discipline...or abuse?

it could be either, see above

you included a column for Kung Fu and other specifics...but you didn't include a column for "kicking as discipline"

so is kicking a child in the butt ...discipline or abuse?

kicking in the butt can be discipline OR Abuse,, depending upon other variables and 'specifics'

temper temper ...I don't want you to go Kung Fu or Kung Shoe



MsHarmony...now you're playing games...because what other varibles and specifics are you referring to that also wouldn't apply a spanking that you yourself have given to your child

Ive explained it already,,

just like shooting someone may be murder, or manslaughter or self defense

or making someone stay in a room may be unlawful (as in the case of a grown up) or disciplinary (as in the case of your own child)

or refusing to feed someone might be neglect(in the case of your own child) or a simple right of choice(in the case of an adult stranger)


there isnt an action that can be thrown out in solitude that always comes out the same way as long as the variables can be/are different


its been explained that physical damage, intention, and alot of other things play into what is 'abusive'

doing NOTHING with a child is abusive because they have needs, emotional and physical

what each childs emotional and physical needs are and how they can be best met in THEIR home environment is totally dependent upon the FAMILY And not some quick fix , one size fits all philosophies about disciplining or loving them,,,

LOL, Pimps in the pulpit!!!!!!!

no, I mean the variables and specifics of the ones doing the hitting

being kicked punched,hormones raging and tossing up her cookies for 9 months it's only logical that the Mother might hold some resentment for the Child

then after the child is born it's like a little sociopath that does nothing but cry in order to manipulate the mother to do it's bidding

the child keeps the Mother from sleeping from eating from making sound judgements which places the Mother under stress ...

couldn't a spanking be viewed as revenge

If the spanking was done excessively without plausible reason, yes. But a child needs to learn some how, and just talking to the child doesn't always work. So therefor, the spanking would come into play.

Cowboy...and exactly how would that be determine and by who?

which means

it's time again for the child to fill out The Questionnaire

1..do you feel that your spanking was done excessively
2..do you feel that you spanking was done without plausible reasons
3..do you feel that you know what excessive or plausible means
4..do you feel that your spanking was an act of vengence
5..do you think mommy or daddy spanked you because they have unaddressed anger issues

Again, does not matter what the child thinks on this matter. Do prisoners get a questioner of the same? No. Because it doesn't matter. Excessive would range to major physical and or emotional harm. And this known from common sense, no questions needed.