I think you are only displaying a superior ability to make nonsense analogies,,(comparing the understanding of CHILDREN to grown ups, for example)

and if my spouse uses my information without my permission,,,guess what?

because he is an adult , COURTS would hold him responsible for forgery,,,,

so the comparison once again fails


I will say what I have always said on the topic, people need to stop ASSUMING what is harmful or beneficial for other peoples children, or that there is a one size fits all way to discipline

raising children is about BALANCE,,,everyone needs to figure out what BALANCE works with THEIR CHILDREN,,,,

I would think both would understand pain equally



perhaps it's you that fail to realize that your spouse do not need to commit forgery to open up a line of credit using your information but yet you would refrain from giving him a spanky spanky for being naughty naughty



yep..next people probably start complaining about how owners beat their dogs and cats



I guess by balance you mean using your hand to occasionally knock a child off balance with hopes that it balance out...

I was never knocked off balance being spanked,, another failed application of terms......


by balance, I mean the combination of elements that prevents an unhealthy excess or unhealthy deficit


in CHILD RAISING

those elements are many things, like discipline, support, communication, encouragement of the positive, discouragement of the negative, instruction, guidance, availability,,,


etc,,etc,,


people who RAISE children understand there are a number of factors involved and would never place all the significance on any ONE part of the equation,,,like discipline,,,

I believe Creflo is guilty as charged! Just like the others...I am so tired of men and women who hide behind their religion. And I am religious, but I do the best I can. I dont hide. I have faults but I dont go out saying I am a christian and I would never do such a thing. I think it BS how people do this time and time again.

like the other what?

MsHarmony...you either have buns of steel or your parents were holding your arm to make sure you wouldn't fall on your face as they were beating you, or you were placed over their knee or was beaten with a nerf paddle..if these are not the case...then according to the laws of physics a spanking will knock you off balance



again...how would you know that unless the child fills out a questionnaire..

1...did you feel that mommy spanking you was an unhealthy excess?
2...did mommy spanking you give you an unhealthy deficit?
3...do you feel that mommy is babbering about unhealthy excess or deficit and using it as justification as to her having the need to commit violence due to her unhealthy lack of control and upbringing?



etc. etc???.....I'm curious why you never include the term "inflicting pain" into any of those child raising equations you keep listing



right...I can imagine Creflo telling that to the Judge....

well you see my honor...in child raising there are a number of factors involved ...just like Kenny Rogers said...you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to choke them and know when to hit them with a non-lethal object like a shoe

and in closing my honor, when a parents does this, it's not abuse, it's discipline

Mr. Dollar when addressing the court it's not my honor it's your honor

that's what I said judge...it's my honor and my right to beat my child

Or they just didn't spank her that incredibly hard. Hard enough to where it stings a little maybe, but not hard enough to hurt her that tremendously bad. Why do you speak of spanking as like it's like beating the holy crap out of the child? Like it's just the parent swatting the child as hard as the parent can?



That's about one of the most ridiculous statements you've made on here Funches. When a person comes out of jail, are they asked these same questions?

1.... did you feel the judge putting you in jail was an unhealthy excess?
2.... did going to jail give you an unhealthy deficit?
And so on.

A punishment is a punishment Funches, we all pay for the deeds we do in life. If no punishment is placed on a child, will they learn not to do it? Absolutely not, look how much the world has change in the past say 100 years. Not saying it's entirely due to this specific thing, but 100 years ago, children got swatted for the things they did, even worse then they do today. And children used to have respect. In this day and age where "swatting" is frowned upon a little atleast, the children these days are foul mouth disrespectful children.

Cowboy...are you "Conack the Amazing" and can see the past spankings of MsHarmony by looking into your Crystal Ball ....or do you feel her pain ...if not then "what you talkin about Willis"?



bruises around the neck of Creflo's daughter leans more towards her getting the Holy Crap beat out of her ....I'm curious...is holy crap a mixture of eating kosher food and drinking holy water ...or is the sh_t blessed or have a smell of divinity?



you left out some much needed information....for instance...did those prisoners get spankings while they were in jail?



100 years ago?...let's bring back the punishment from those biblical years when children were stone to death....I'm pretty sure that works far better than a spanking....considering you will never have to worry about the child disobeying you again

Like the guy who was gay (ted haggard)and cheated non his wife, like TBN, LIKE Crystal Cathedral. Like the pastors on the news everyday who molest children. Everyone is doing it, religion or not, but irritating those who hide behind their religion as though they are exempt from the crime, denying everything and lying to the public until they are caught, hoping to get off Scott free...knowing in their hearts they are deceitful and disobedient to Christ. At least Kirk Franklin jr, had the nerve to admit he was a porn addict, I respect their family more then the others. They have a problem and admit it, deal with it.

Bruises around the neck is not a spanking, that is possible abuse.

so if you can see a bruise it's abuse and if you can't see a bruise then it's a spanking

probably explains why the smart people spank the child on the butt...that way if a bruise shows up later the butt is covered by clothing and no one can see it

now do you understand the value of a spanking questionnaire

1...do your butt hurts days after mommy or father spanks it
2...do your butt hurts when you try to sit down after mommy or father spanks you

No, that's not particularly why people spank their child on the butt. That is what a spanking is, on the butt. Any other place of hitting is where it turns to abuse.

that's what I said..that parents hitting the child any other place but their butt can leave tell tale bruises of abuse ..that's how Creflo made his mistake

instead of beating her body with a shoe..he should have beaten her butt with it and instead of choking her neck with his hands he should have choked her butt with them

this way he would have left the mark of cain without leaving the mark of zorro

nice fantasy world

irrelevant to the reality of spanking though


lol,, never amazes me how people insist on DEFINING what others experiences must have been,,,,


so lets do another irrelevant analogy

ever think it odd, that around the time that the 'never spank because its the same as a beating' crowd started infiltrating cultures around america,,,we saw a RISE in violent criminals being incarcerated?

maybe people should do what works for THEIR children and stop the inane attempts to put all discipline in the same basket


comparing spanking to beating, IMHO

is like comparing a hug (loving gesture) to an attempt to squeeze to DEATH,,


as if there are not any VARYING degrees to an action


,,,but extremes are fun ways to debate the issue of disipline , I guess

that sounds like something that the Judge might say to Creflo



didn't you do the same when you tried to dismiss the light bruises around Creflo's daughter neck as a result of him choking her



which crowd was that...the hippies?....now you're making up stuff MsHarmony



then that means that you agree with the beatdown that Creflo gave to his daughter



wasn't creflo trying to hug (loving gesture) his daughter's neck? ...also it's impossible to spank a child without beating them



I've constantly asked you what "VARYING degree of pain inflicted upon a child turns a spanking into a beating ..so far you have been unable to answer that



well since the thread is about Creflo...I guess you're trying to say that his brand of discipline was not extreme?

Here in Philly, the Courts just gave a priest more time in jail for rotating abusing clerics than the clerics who were doing the abusing. Dollar's oldest daughter testified that she observed the abuse, which occurred after the younger daughter turned her back and was walking away from him. People have posted things like "If I could I would sent all these Knuckleheads to Dollar's church for an old-fashion beatdown", as well as, most of his Church members refuse to believe the daughter.

Where are we as a society where a woman describing abuse from a man is immediately viewed as a lie, without investigation? Remember Twana Brawley- her lie was made out of fear of a beating from her father. What does this say to young women, especially young black women?

Also, in regarding clerics, it would do them well to remember Satan's sin, what was it again? Hubris.

perhaps the people at his church are more familiar with his daughter than strangers in cyber world are

I disbelieve it because I know teenagers can lie, especially spoiled ones who watch alot of tv, and because I dont think someone being 'choked' would merely leave a 'light' bruise

and because I have read how media chooses its adjectives and police as well to sway opinions

I dont KNOW it didnt happen, I just have a belief that it didnt

I will let investigators THERE look it over to decide what they believe,,

I agree that spanking is a valid form of disciplin
e
I dont KNOW what happened to the girl, but I dont BELIEVE she was choked with a mere 'light' bruise on her neck

the degree of pain that constitutes a beating from a spanking is probably the same degree that seperates manhandling from horseplay

the crowd that introduced 'spanking is the same as beating' is self explanatory,,,it includes all thow made part of their living promoting that particular philosophy ('experts' who usually had studied child raising but never actually RAISED a child and never allowed for any of the many variables in a home besides the discipline)


If Creflo got on her for disrespect and didnt punch, slap, or kick her , or INTENTIONALLY strike her ,,,,

I agree with it

I agree with spanking, in BALANCE with all the other things a child may need to guide and teach and support them into adulthood

but unfortunetly you can't agree as to what a spanking is



yep..she should have had the foresight to just stand there, and allow Creflo to choke her a little while longer, for a better and darker bruise that was not "mere"



another bad analogy MsHarmony?...especially since the intent of both manhandling and a spanking involves a victim...horseplay involves a willing or accepting partner ... were you a willing or accepting partner during your spankings?...I'm referring to the ones from childhood



again who was are you referring to? ..especially since you're trying to blame this crowd for the rise in violent crimes due to convincing parents not to beat their children ..next you'll be claiming that not spanking children is the cause of "Global Warming" ....



MsHarmony...when are you ever going to understand that it's impossible to spank a child without "INTENTIONALLY" striking them



Creflo either raised a child which he still had to spank at 15 years of age...or he raised a child that would lie about her Father choking and beating her...

so where's this balance you keep referring to?

when I have lived in their home with them , I will explain what THEIR personal balance is,,,

until then, Ill leave the assuming to others,,,