Been already explained Cowboy...just because God

KNOWS how our days will unfold,

does NOT mean our days are presdestined...nor does it take

away from our free will....


no....not at all.....

it is just that God is OUTSIDE of TIME...and KNOWS and SEES ALL

THINGS even before they happen on earth, because God is

ETERNAL...God is OUTSIDE of TIME...and therefore ,God is able to

see the end from the beginning and the beginning from the end.

BUT nothing is pre-destined.....just already KNOWN by GOD.

Never said either one, nor infered it. Answer the questions PLEASE, nothing more, nothing less, just answer the questions.

If God know's every action we will ever take through our lives, why waste the time living the life? Why not create us in the womb, then we are born and judged at the same exact time? Why allow his children to go through the troubles of this world? Why not just make it quick and simple

You are totally wrong. Einstein was a scientist. He knew that time (past and future) does not actually exist.

The term "here" represents "Now." Hence "here" is in reference to the only time that exists and that is the present.

I'm glad you are not going to argue this point any more because you are wrong anyway.

bye.

It has to exist for it to be perceived. I agree.

I agree there is no reason for an all powerful being to watch a show he knows the ending to.


Mysterious ways . . . or paradox. Where does free will fit into this again?

Personally I think this is just what we get when we try to envision a special frame of reference outside of spacetime. Einstein was very much against that concept AND none of this explains free will, in fact it all sounds a lot like destiny.

Those questions can't be answered because the idea that there is a deity somewhere outside of time who knows everything that we are thinking and everything that we are going to chose to do is simply absurd.

I seriously don't know where people ever could get that idea. According to that belief, then God is just toying with people and fooling them into thinking that they have "free will" and that they have a choice in the matter of their own future.

We don't even know what we will do in the future. We don't even know what choice we will make. There is no way some deity outside of time knows. The future does not even exist except what we make of it. It is not written in stone.

You cannot state that we have free choice and that the future is NOT predetermined and at the same time state that some deity knows every choice we will make and knows everything that will happen.

UNLESS....

For every possible probability, an entire universe exists in the implicate order that has not yet manifested. That would mean that there are an infinite number of universes existing in the implicate order to cover every probable choice of every individual throughout time.

(See David Bohm for the explanation of implicate and explicate orders.)

So this alleged deity could possibly have access to knowing all of these probabilities, but he/she/It could not know what choices would be made that would manifest into the explicate order.

In the long run, we are entirely accountable for our future in every aspect. What we do today, effects our tomorrow. Heck each individual person is the one that actually chooses if they will go to Heaven or not come the time. We choose this through our faith and actions. We have been told what we are to do to receive such a glorious gift, it is set in our hands to decide our fate. Yes Jesus will be the one whom judges our salvation come the time, but it was us that chose to do the actions we did through our lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1cRIVva8rA&feature=g-all-f&context=G240aa12FAAAAAAAAAAA
Think.

Great video!!

Sin separated us from God.

Not free will.

God and sin don't mix.


But God sent us His only begotten son, so when we beleive and


accept Him, our sins are forgiven....

and as a result,

we no longer are separated from God ; but instead, we are not

only forgiven, but we are also brought back into right

relationship and right standing with God once more.

Exactly. :)

Non-religious people can't really sin. Sin is a word invented by the religions of the world and it means to disobey God.

If there is no God you can't disobey him.

Even if there is a God, where is he giving orders from? Does anyone ever see him?

I don't think so.

I see God every day. And God isn't still giving orders. He gave his orders, now it will be time for judgement.

What kind of life would it be going through it begging forgiveness for being human from a non existent entity?

I feel sorry for those who buy that garbage.

Describe him then.

I did no such thing!!!

I am appalled by this baseless accusation.

Bushido...

..you tick me off with these rampant video links.

Irritating to say the least.

Why??????


























..I don't have sound..
So, no point in watching.

He is absolutely beautiful and love overfills across the lands of this world.

Who's begging for forgiveness? Why would one have to beg for forgiveness?

Why not ask for forgiveness, then repent from that which you are asking of forgiveness for?

Why do the thing
Then ask for forgiveness
then do it again
then ask for forgiveness
ect ect

Would seem your asking for forgiveness would actually be in vein if one refused to repent from that action. One doesn't have to ask for forgiveness if that one refuses to do the action in the first place.

My issue lies in that misconception.

They keep telling me that it is free will, that was their sin.
But it wasn't.

Nor was Eve 'tempted' even in the slightest.

That is a blatant and overlooked lie.

To be tempted, as I've stated over and over.

You need to know one thing; that the course of action you are about to engage in, is in fact wrong (evil).

Eve, nor Adam, knew right from wrong.
Therefore, you cannot be tempted, if you don't have the basic concept.

Sure, they did what God told them not to.
BUT.
That doesn't mean they had any knowledge of what actual consequences existed if they actually partaken in by eating from the tree.

Therefore, it was their own obliviousness if anything, which would ultimately be God's fault, that resulted in them eating in the tree.

If you don't know that the snake is evil, why not listen to him?

That ideal in itself makes absolutely no sense.

So, to say that was free-will, is redundant and useless, because it wasn't.

If you put a bottle of cyanide near a toddler and say:

"You can play with anything in this room but don't drink or touch this bottle."

Wtf do you think it's going to do the very second you leave the room?

Adam and Eve were no different.

You can say they 'had' intelligence, but seriously, how much of a dumb*** do you have to be to not recognize you are even naked? Seriously, common sense.

They not only gained the concept of Good and Evil when they ate from the tree, but apparently were far smarter now.

Evidence lies in the fact that almost instantly, Adam tried to blame the woman for his eating from the tree and, in a nonchalant way, even blamed God for giving this woman to him.

Eve, of course, blamed the cursed serpent.

However.

When I asked why God even bothered putting this tree in the garden, I was told it was because he 'knew man would fail'.

That means that every course of action that took place after, was in fact, God's 'will', not any one, throughout history's, free-will.

That said, Biblically, free-will is a complete and blatant fabrication and is just a simple myth.

However cruel, evil, dark, or dumb this 'plan' is in our eyes; it is providing my claim that IF God truly does have a plan for us; it was resourced from the beginning and, in the end, we are all exactly where we are supposed to be.

I'm supposed to be here, ranting this post right now.

Jeannie's wherever she is.

Morning Song is going to come in and type some blue stuff..

..Cowboy will do his thing.

No matter what it is, from tying your shoes, to drinking your coffee in the morning; to the things we debate over, to the things we do without thinking; is already a set predetermined course of action.

You think and perceive such as free, but ultimately, the choice is already been made for you.

You see a blue and a red pill.

..but ultimately..

Both pills have the same affect.

No they did not know right from wrong, this much is true. But nevertheless they could have still be tempted. They could not have been tempted to do "evil" specifically. But they could have been tempted to do something they were told not to.

Tempt - Have an urge or inclination to do something

So if they knew right from wrong is irrelevant to being tempted. No they could not have been tempted to do "evil", for they did not know what "evil" was. But nevertheless they could have been "urged" to do something, or "enticed" to do it.