Topic: Is "Free Will" a sin?
Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Wed 02/22/12 04:07 PM
..paradise was once a hotel lobby? o.O

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Wed 02/22/12 06:19 PM

..paradise was once a hotel lobby? o.O


After further review.

Paradise was once a hotel lobby..

..next to the hottest desert of all?! o.O

no photo
Wed 02/22/12 06:36 PM

Free will is choice, period. No if's an's or but's about it. Free will means you can make a choice. The reaction and or consequence of the action has no merit on weather it's free will or not, for you still had the choice.

You have the choice to obey God, or not. You are not an automatically programmed robot or puppet on a string. YOU choose, no one else.


it also refers to an old protestant doctrine of predestination (in a technical sense) meaning that God has predestined out soul to enter heaven or hell rather than our free will allow us to mold our karma or destiny for the after life

I am not a protestant and predestination always seems a little silly to me (I mean why strive to live in a way that pleases the Christ if your soul is predestined...just party and lie all the time - goina heaven anywaylaugh ) so anyway being that I am not protestant there are nuances that I don't understand - I am a free will person a deist almost if not in total - we make our own destiny or karma based on the goodness of our actions & conscience -god doesnt get involved- jmho

AdventureBegins's photo
Wed 02/22/12 08:37 PM


Also, if God is all knowing why would he let the Naga serpent man into the garden to do who knows what to his innocent children? Isn't he watching his children?


Sorry Jeannie, but I'm erasing everything but the last part..

Why?

This has been my point, time in and time out.

If God could not keep an eye on two kids.

How is it reasonable or even logical to believe that he has his eyes on all 7 billion of us?

God looks at me through your eyes. He looks at you through mine.

As He is in you...

so also is HE in the other 7 billion that you are part of.


Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 01:50 AM



Also, if God is all knowing why would he let the Naga serpent man into the garden to do who knows what to his innocent children? Isn't he watching his children?


Sorry Jeannie, but I'm erasing everything but the last part..

Why?

This has been my point, time in and time out.

If God could not keep an eye on two kids.

How is it reasonable or even logical to believe that he has his eyes on all 7 billion of us?

God looks at me through your eyes. He looks at you through mine.

As He is in you...

so also is HE in the other 7 billion that you are part of.




Outside of religious mysticism..

..how can you possibly believe that is even remotely true?

And if it IS true..

..how could he watch?

No, not literally..

How could he STAND to watch?

3 million guys are masturbating..
..for example.

The dude butt-ramming the sheep..

..murder..

..war.

..poverty..

..and he just.. watches?

Right.

That makes him one sick basturd..

no photo
Thu 02/23/12 09:27 AM
Because, sin and sorrow, we are God.

We are the eyes of God.

There is no single entity (God) that knows everything or sees everything.
Information and knowledge is distributed throughout all things and is shared.

We are God.

DUH.


msharmony's photo
Thu 02/23/12 11:01 AM


Free will is choice, period. No if's an's or but's about it. Free will means you can make a choice. The reaction and or consequence of the action has no merit on weather it's free will or not, for you still had the choice.

You have the choice to obey God, or not. You are not an automatically programmed robot or puppet on a string. YOU choose, no one else.


it also refers to an old protestant doctrine of predestination (in a technical sense) meaning that God has predestined out soul to enter heaven or hell rather than our free will allow us to mold our karma or destiny for the after life

I am not a protestant and predestination always seems a little silly to me (I mean why strive to live in a way that pleases the Christ if your soul is predestined...just party and lie all the time - goina heaven anywaylaugh ) so anyway being that I am not protestant there are nuances that I don't understand - I am a free will person a deist almost if not in total - we make our own destiny or karma based on the goodness of our actions & conscience -god doesnt get involved- jmho




there are a couple understandings of what 'predestination' is, although the word itself is not biblical


I think it is actually a word used by Milton in Paradise Lost, but I am not positive of that

in any case, I have attended many christian churches, different nominations, including protestant,,,,my understanding and teaching was always that God KNOWS,, not that he causes

in laymans terms, its like he is the ULTIMATE PSYCHIC, so that he knows that some will accept CHRIST, although he doesnt force them to,

likewise he knows beforehand some who will NOT accept Christ, even though he has not/will not force their decision either,,,

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 01:37 PM

Because, sin and sorrow, we are God.

We are the eyes of God.

There is no single entity (God) that knows everything or sees everything.
Information and knowledge is distributed throughout all things and is shared.

We are God.

DUH.




Now I see what you did there. :D

Nice Jeannie. :)

CowboyGH's photo
Thu 02/23/12 01:49 PM




Also, if God is all knowing why would he let the Naga serpent man into the garden to do who knows what to his innocent children? Isn't he watching his children?


Sorry Jeannie, but I'm erasing everything but the last part..

Why?

This has been my point, time in and time out.

If God could not keep an eye on two kids.

How is it reasonable or even logical to believe that he has his eyes on all 7 billion of us?

God looks at me through your eyes. He looks at you through mine.

As He is in you...

so also is HE in the other 7 billion that you are part of.




Outside of religious mysticism..

..how can you possibly believe that is even remotely true?

And if it IS true..

..how could he watch?

No, not literally..

How could he STAND to watch?

3 million guys are masturbating..
..for example.

The dude butt-ramming the sheep..

..murder..

..war.

..poverty..

..and he just.. watches?

Right.

That makes him one sick basturd..


Because people have free will. They can do as they wish, when they wish. If one wishes to butt-ram a sheep, that by all means is his own personal buisines. But that is where judgement comes into play, and why we are "judged".

What point would there be in this world if God only allowed "good" to go on and no evil? What reasoning would that give to behind one's own things and desires? Again that is the reason we are judged.

no photo
Thu 02/23/12 01:54 PM

How could he STAND to watch?
...
That makes him one sick basturd..


We all watch, heck, we all do terrible things. What does that make us?

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 01:57 PM


How could he STAND to watch?
...
That makes him one sick basturd..


We all watch, heck, we all do terrible things. What does that make us?



Human.

Because I can't float, create an entire universe..
..move clouds..
..unleash plagues..

..it makes me human.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 01:59 PM

Because people have free will. They can do as they wish, when they wish. If one wishes to butt-ram a sheep, that by all means is his own personal buisines. But that is where judgement comes into play, and why we are "judged".

What point would there be in this world if God only allowed "good" to go on and no evil? What reasoning would that give to behind one's own things and desires? Again that is the reason we are judged.


C'mon Cowboy..

..you so know you laughed when you said 'butt ram a sheep'.

..and what point would there be if God only allowed good.

Well, I guess that's a whole new topic to discuss..
..unless you love having villains in the world.

And, ya know, all the suffering and misery..

no photo
Thu 02/23/12 02:08 PM



How could he STAND to watch?
...
That makes him one sick basturd..


We all watch, heck, we all do terrible things. What does that make us?



Human.

Because I can't float, create an entire universe..
..move clouds..
..unleash plagues..

..it makes me human.


You can feed the homeless. You can help the needy. You can comfort the dying. There is a lot we could all do that would make the world a better place. Being that God is invisible, we don't know the ways he touches our lives or the lives of others. But we see pain and suffering all around us and not a single person alive does everything in their power to stop it. Jesus' mandate to us was for us to do His work. Which means we are the ones who should care for our fellow man.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 02:13 PM

You can feed the homeless. You can help the needy. You can comfort the dying. There is a lot we could all do that would make the world a better place. Being that God is invisible, we don't know the ways he touches our lives or the lives of others. But we see pain and suffering all around us and not a single person alive does everything in their power to stop it. Jesus' mandate to us was for us to do His work. Which means we are the ones who should care for our fellow man.


Agreed.
I try.
But I am only one.

Heck, I even write stuff on here about such stuff.
..and granted, is almost immature to blame either of them for not helping in anyway (outside the idea they *could* be)

..but if I had superpowers, sure I'd enjoy flying around for a while.
After time, I'd really start to try and be this planet's Superman..

..but I don't have those abilities, and I can't fly, or melt stuff with my eyes..

But they do. Granted, they don't have to come down and fix this all for us.. but if they were truly out there.. and truly wanted us to be better..

..is it so much to ask for a sign that is NOT so 'secretive' or 'mysterious'..?

I mean, just part the skies, pop down, say 'What's up?' ..you know.

Something?!

:/

no photo
Thu 02/23/12 02:25 PM


You can feed the homeless. You can help the needy. You can comfort the dying. There is a lot we could all do that would make the world a better place. Being that God is invisible, we don't know the ways he touches our lives or the lives of others. But we see pain and suffering all around us and not a single person alive does everything in their power to stop it. Jesus' mandate to us was for us to do His work. Which means we are the ones who should care for our fellow man.


Agreed.
I try.
But I am only one.

Heck, I even write stuff on here about such stuff.
..and granted, is almost immature to blame either of them for not helping in anyway (outside the idea they *could* be)

..but if I had superpowers, sure I'd enjoy flying around for a while.
After time, I'd really start to try and be this planet's Superman..

..but I don't have those abilities, and I can't fly, or melt stuff with my eyes..

But they do. Granted, they don't have to come down and fix this all for us.. but if they were truly out there.. and truly wanted us to be better..

..is it so much to ask for a sign that is NOT so 'secretive' or 'mysterious'..?

I mean, just part the skies, pop down, say 'What's up?' ..you know.

Something?!

:/


God wants us to worship by faith. If God proved that He existed, there would be no need for faith. God wants to know if you would seek Him out if you didn't know he existed. God wants to know how you would live your life, if you didn't know he existed. We each have a conscience to tell us to help other people. God is working two different angles here: God is trying to make our lives as good as possible, without removing doubt of his existence.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 02:34 PM

God wants us to worship by faith. If God proved that He existed, there would be no need for faith. God wants to know if you would seek Him out if you didn't know he existed. God wants to know how you would live your life, if you didn't know he existed. We each have a conscience to tell us to help other people. God is working two different angles here: God is trying to make our lives as good as possible, without removing doubt of his existence.


..but it seems like those who try the hardest, suffer the most.

I mean, without details, and as you probably know, I once believed.
..and it seemed like no matter what I prayed for, small, little, or just for hope; things always got worse every time I tried..

Then he, or life, whatever you wish to blame the cause on.. fate if you will; starting removing all those I ever cared about from my life. Friends, a large family of 26, now there's 5 of us..

I, personally, may have drifted from praying or talking to him; but I still try to do right by the principles I once valued when I did 'seek' him. I volunteer with the Burn Prevention Society, we've been helping the Amish for over 2 years now get proper medical treatment without violating their own religion/beliefs and laws.

I visit children dying of leukemia, cancer, and other BS diseases, all the time in a Koala suit.. and even though they seem me as happy, it tears me up in side at the same time..

I try, and I try, but seriously.. what's it all for?

Smile today, death tomorrow..

..what could a 3 year old have ever possibly done to deserve all that?

Yet your politicians, warlords, rich corporate *******, go on like everything's all chits and giggles..

Drives me to just burn the world to the ground myself...

..so that's why, imo, simply 'watching' is effing crap.
Cause how long does it take before he finally says,
'Alright, enough is enough.'?

no photo
Thu 02/23/12 02:38 PM

Cause how long does it take before he finally says,
'Alright, enough is enough.'?


When God says that, it's game over.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 03:11 PM


Cause how long does it take before he finally says,
'Alright, enough is enough.'?


When God says that, it's game over.


Great Flood part deus..

..or, over over?

no photo
Thu 02/23/12 06:22 PM



Cause how long does it take before he finally says,
'Alright, enough is enough.'?


When God says that, it's game over.


Great Flood part deus..

..or, over over?


Over over.

Sin_and_Sorrow's photo
Thu 02/23/12 06:33 PM

Over over.


Well..

..that sucks.

:/