100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: Fake Christians | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
..which ultimately is the 'said claim'. Ahh, makes sense, however. I was raised southern Babtist and I WAS taught that if you did not believe in Jesus as your savior you would be sent to hell and there was nothing saying it wouldn't be forever. So any given person may argue scripture, but to deny that these tactics are not used by many Christians is to stick your head in the sand. Just my .02 Hmmmm, was this a deflection tactic or an obscured "no need to show evidence BS"? Or perhaps it was your evidence in an appeal to authority? Whatever it was, it's time for you to pull your head out of the sand and recognise what it is that you are doing... You apply the double-standard, sliding scale rule of requirements for "evidence".... OK, the Southern Baptists taught you about "Jesus" and "Hell", I get that... So then why do you question the existence of God? If you can take oral testimony and draw conclusions as well as make claims about "hell", then what's the difference between that and the existence of God? With one you require "spectacular" evidence, the other, hearsay testimony? To be honest, I'd have to say that your line of reasoning is what should constitute "magical thinking". After all, it seems to give you the ability to deny what you have posted... It took Sin_and_Sorrow's post to show you the claim(s) you made, doesn't that slight mishap cause you to question your own memory and/or perception? There were actually two claims made, but I thought I would make it easier for ya by only focussing on one. "Yea real nice guy this god that requires you believe in him or he makes you suffer for eternity." 1st claim: God requires you to believe in Him... 2nd claim: He will make you suffer for eternity if you don't believe in Him... So, do you apply the scientific principal and verify your own claims? Or do you simply believe whatever someone tells you and say "no need to show evidence"? So, do you apply the scientific principal and verify your own claims? Or do you simply believe whatever someone tells you and say "no need to show evidence"? I have a question that goes along with your statement here. It's a little "off topic" but it relates into the topic. So do you check EVERYTHING you know about "history" to verify it to be true? How do you absolutely know Abraham was a president for absolutes? Someone tell you? Where you there? Or I'll go with what you request, "what evidence do you have of this"? And the evidence has to be shown to be authentic and absolute. People don't believe in religion because they do not wish to. In this case "Christianity". It's not because they haven't been "convinced" or anything, it's because they CHOOSE not to believe. Yes I understand quite a bit of history CAN be verified through investigation, but have you ever really done it? I'm not speaking about one or two incidents, but everything you know about history, have you thoroughly checked it out to ensure it to be true? If not, why not? There were actually two claims made, but I thought I would make it easier for ya by only focussing on one. "Yea real nice guy this god that requires you believe in him or he makes you suffer for eternity." But this statement is not true. One is not punished specifically for not believing. The only way to receive forgiveness of sins is through Jesus Christ, sin can not enter into the kingdom of God. So in order to enter into the kingdom of God, one would have to be cleansed of this sin, which can only be done through Jesus Christ. Again, it's not specifically the belief in itself that can condemn someone, it's the actions that follow through either the belief or lack thereof. God sends no one into eternal punishment, the person themselves do. They do it through their actions and what they place their faith in. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
But this statement is not true. One is not punished specifically for not believing. The only way to receive forgiveness of sins is through Jesus Christ, sin can not enter into the kingdom of God. So in order to enter into the kingdom of God, one would have to be cleansed of this sin, which can only be done through Jesus Christ. Again, it's not specifically the belief in itself that can condemn someone, it's the actions that follow through either the belief or lack thereof. God sends no one into eternal punishment, the person themselves do. They do it through their actions and what they place their faith in. Cowboy, I totally agree. And thank you, to those who are defending the faith. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 02/19/12 12:34 PM
|
|
Forgiveness can only be granted to a person who is sincerely sorry for what they have done and that is a person who resolves not to do it again. It also can only be granted if you can forgive yourself and others. You must be willing to take full responsibility for your actions and you must know that you have changed and you will be a changed person with resolve. That is being born again in spirit. You are a new person, and a changed person.
None of that requires the idea of God or Jesus or the belief that God or Jesus has forgiven you, but some people feel they need an outside entity to forgive them for their sins and wash them clean. As long as you forgive yourself and have resolved to be responsible and pay the price and to change your ways, you are a new person, and one can say that you are born again. Judgement is when you have judged yourself. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forgiveness can only be granted to a person who is sincerely sorry for what they have done and that is a person who resolves not to do it again. It also can only be granted if you can forgive yourself and others. You must be willing to take full responsibility for your actions and you must know that you have changed and you will be a changed person with resolve. That is being born again in spirit. You are a new person, and a changed person. None of that requires the idea of God or Jesus or the belief that God or Jesus has forgiven you, but some people feel they need an outside entity to forgive them for their sins and wash them clean. As long as you forgive yourself and have resolved to be responsible and pay the price and to change your ways, you are a new person, and one can say that you are born again. Judgement is when you have judged yourself. Forgiveness can only be granted to a person who is sincerely sorry for what they have done and that is a person who resolves not to do it again. It also can only be granted if you can forgive yourself and others. You must be willing to take full responsibility for your actions and you must know that you have changed and you will be a changed person with resolve. That is being born again in spirit. You are a new person, and a changed person True and is why we are told to forgive others. Matthew 6:14 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forgiveness can only be granted to a person who is sincerely sorry for what they have done and that is a person who resolves not to do it again. It also can only be granted if you can forgive yourself and others. You must be willing to take full responsibility for your actions and you must know that you have changed and you will be a changed person with resolve. That is being born again in spirit. You are a new person, and a changed person. None of that requires the idea of God or Jesus or the belief that God or Jesus has forgiven you, but some people feel they need an outside entity to forgive them for their sins and wash them clean. As long as you forgive yourself and have resolved to be responsible and pay the price and to change your ways, you are a new person, and one can say that you are born again. Judgement is when you have judged yourself. Forgiveness can only be granted to a person who is sincerely sorry for what they have done and that is a person who resolves not to do it again. It also can only be granted if you can forgive yourself and others. You must be willing to take full responsibility for your actions and you must know that you have changed and you will be a changed person with resolve. That is being born again in spirit. You are a new person, and a changed person True and is why we are told to forgive others. Matthew 6:14 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you Isn't that part of the Lord's Prayer? Or Shepherd's.. something or other? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 02/19/12 09:55 PM
|
|
We are to forgive at all times, even if the person
who has wronged us ,has not asked for our forgiveness or confessed his/her wrong against us....we still are to forgive that person , regardless,and move forward . To harbor unforgiveness hurts us , not the other person... To harbor unforgiveness becomes a stumbling block to the one who refuses to forgive....and will hinder the flow of The Holy Spirit....and will also open the door for bitterness and hatted to enter into the unforgiving person's heart. Jesus said to forgive 70 times seven..... meaning........we are to always forgive at all times.  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Sin_and_Sorrow
on
Sun 02/19/12 11:39 PM
|
|
Jesus said to forgive 70 times seven..... meaning........we are to always forgive at all times. ..where did you learn your math? 70 x 7 = 490 70 x 7 does not equal infinity. lol jk
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And you must also forgive yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And you must also forgive yourself. ..often easier said than done. I can forgive others a lot faster than myself. |
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Tue 02/21/12 08:44 AM
|
|
But this statement is not true. One is not punished specifically for not believing. The only way to receive forgiveness of sins is through Jesus Christ, sin can not enter into the kingdom of God. So in order to enter into the kingdom of God, one would have to be cleansed of this sin, which can only be done through Jesus Christ. Great way to remove gods responsibility for the system he created . . . . Again, it's not specifically the belief in itself that can condemn someone, it's the actions that follow through either the belief or lack thereof. God sends no one into eternal punishment, the person themselves do. They do it through their actions and what they place their faith in. Yea so god sits around for billions of years doing nothing. Then he decides the earth should have some bipedal beings on it, but screws up and has to wipe us out with a flood, then he decides to send down himself to appease himself over his own mistakes. Gotcha. Its a terrible twisted fantasy were the only one not responsible is the creator himself, lol. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 02/21/12 10:01 AM
|
|
But this statement is not true. One is not punished specifically for not believing. The only way to receive forgiveness of sins is through Jesus Christ, sin can not enter into the kingdom of God. So in order to enter into the kingdom of God, one would have to be cleansed of this sin, which can only be done through Jesus Christ. Great way to remove gods responsibility for the system he created . . . . Again, it's not specifically the belief in itself that can condemn someone, it's the actions that follow through either the belief or lack thereof. God sends no one into eternal punishment, the person themselves do. They do it through their actions and what they place their faith in. Yea so god sits around for billions of years doing nothing. Then he decides the earth should have some bipedal beings on it, but screws up and has to wipe us out with a flood, then he decides to send down himself to appease himself over his own mistakes. Gotcha. Its a terrible twisted fantasy were the only one not responsible is the creator himself, lol.  Yep it got twisted way out of shape. Here is what really happened. Earth was an experimental "garden" for the alien development of humans by extraterrestrial scientists. The normal plan is to introduce advanced DNA stock to breed with the primitive population of ape-like human creatures that were the result of carefully guided evolution. But there was a rebellion. Some of those in the galactic federation split from the leadership. There was a galactic inter-dimensional war. Afterwards, the earth was abandoned by the original federation scientists and their project was abandoned. Other scientists began their own DNA experiments with primitive humans. The American primitives were taken under ground and developed until they were sufficiently advanced and then they were released to live on the surface. The Adam and Eve project was contaminated when their children began to mate with other alien created humans. The pure race of Adam and Eve was so mixed with the others that many groups were eliminated completely. Genocide was a common practice to eliminate inferior ethnic races and tribes. That practice hasn't completely died out, even today people are working on creating a superior race of humans and "inferior" races are systematically destroyed. And slavery continues even in this modern age.   |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 02/21/12 10:00 AM
|
|
P.S.
Jesus represents an alien being who came to the earth to see if he could salvage any humans who were still loyal to the federation and willing to obey the federation law. Souls willing to submit to obedience will be reclaimed by the federation. All other souls will be treated as traitors aligned with the rebels. They will be dispatched by the death star. Souls will be reincarnated back to the third density. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The REAL reason people get angry at having their beliefs questioned is becuase they have built up a personal image based on those beliefs. Human memory is based in large part on idealizations not the actual detailed data. We reassemble memories based on small amounts of data as it meets generic idealization of the core concepts of the memory. Not much memory is of the memorized form, most is conceptual re-assemblies. We form conceptual, visual, and sensory impressions of what it means to be something, and we take that idealized self and hold it up as what it means to be this, or that ect. It FEELS real! The wonderful thing about holding only objective truths (or at least for the important questions) is that any questions can be refereed back to the object itself. However when the belief is based on faith then the only reference is the idealized image of self itself, it becomes personal. Excellent response BB, it was exactly coming to this realization many years ago that led me away from religions of all types along with many other realities also. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The REAL reason people get angry at having there beliefs questioned is becuase they have built up a personal image based on those beliefs. Human memory is based in large part on idealizations not the actual detailed data. We form conceptual, visual, and sensory impressions of what it means to be something, and we take that idealized self and hold it up as what it means to be this, or that ect. The wonderful thing about holding only objective truths (or at least for the important questions) is that any questions can be refereed back to the object itself. However when the belief is based on faith then the only reference is the idealized image of self itself, it becomes personal. ..thus why 'you are bashing my chit' always seems to come into play. Religion itself, no matter where its origin, is all based on Faith. ..but if you are truly firm to your belief. There is no reason to feel threatened. Because true faith, true belief; should not and can not be swayed. ..to take offense to someone questioning your belief.. Only shows that you cling to it by a tiny string. Too much pressure and it will snap. ..again, that is by appearance.. Possibly not the truth, but that is how it is perceived. What is truth? Is it something universal? Is my truth your truth? or yours mine? If i had a god would she be mad or offended by your god? would she feel inferior in some way or superior to yours? Or if it was a he would this also be "true", The book god did not make man in his image, man made the book god in his, as all other gods before and after.Why one would consider one god more "true" than any other is beyong common sense. The history of religion is a long game of power struggles led by those who knew and know that "by Faith" as well as fear of punishment and rewards, people would cowl down and act in ways deemed "good" by those in power.A way to control the masses, religion is the farthest thing away from what you deem "truth". Truths are a dime a dozen and have changed with the every whim of those in power at the time, be it social, political, scientific or religio. There are only two "truths" - That "change" is inevitable,and man's own stupidity, and i'm not absolutely positive about the first one.lol. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
the point was about BASHING others beliefs You seem mad. (I think its all the bolded words that make you seen angry, if you are not then ignore the last question) if a mother believes in prayer alone for cancer..whose business is it is someone else being asked to look after that child, or is she going to be the one doing it? if someone wanted to make this a 'christian nation', how is that any better or worse than making it a 'democratic nation',, until you have some CLUE of what their personal interpretation of the phrase means? judgmental thinking makes people feel pressured not to be able to draw upon their personal experiences but to follow 'studies' and statistics instead because we live in a nation of HUMANS we have both judgmental thinking that bullies others and twisted thinking that results in bad choices right and wrong are not a matter of what studies say or what others tell us, its a matter of how our actions affect the world EVERY freaking issue is not an issue of being right and wrong, any more than it is about being better or worse, its about peoples PERSONAL Experiences and what has worked FOR THEM that logic is every bit as detrimental to society as the 'witch hunting' philosophies referred to by non believers What interests me is that my opinion is seen as bashing, but yours is not? What is the difference? being better or worse Is a relational statement which can be assessed for accuracy. Right and wrong is no different unless you relate it to something not tangible, or to a subjective state, or if the form of the question is nonsensical. Quick hypothetical question. - A 6 year old child asks you the same exact question I ask you. Would that make you more or less angry? Why? what 'question' was asked? Why you believe X generally, a sentence or paragraph in all caps indicates elevated emotions on the contrary, when I am capitalizing a word or two within a posting, it is to emphasize the IMPORTANCE of the concept or word in relation to what Im posting,,, as far as questions I take a six year olds questions with more sincerity and less intent to ridicule because they have usually not had the experience to know the answer themself,,,, it would help me , in the future, for people to specify if they wish for me to discuss with them as if they are a six year old, and I will try to oblige,, YES PLEASE, but make it 4 years old instead ok? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Personally I see myself as an agnostic atheist. Which means I do not hold a belief in god, I also do not hold a positive belief that god does not exist. Basically no evidence exists which requires a god, I only believe in things which has positive evidence, therefor I do not believe in god. Most of the time when I get into discussions it all comes down to what a person wants to call god. I have very little to complain about for pantheists, it comes down to definitions, and we just dont agree on word usage, all other facets of reality we agree on. I think science often gets put into this category of you cant figure out this truth with science, but I disagree if the thing in question is a god interacting with the universe. The Deist god is truly agnostic in terms of non-interaction. If it exists it no longer interacts and thus cannot be seen to exist but might exist. Theist gods however are supposed to be involved in the universe, they set examples, and have desires and wants. They might provide you with free will but they want you to do things their way and interact at times in order make a positive or negative example. Its my belief that a Theists god can be scrutinized with science, at least we should be able to see the affect this god has on the normal natural workings of the universe. Like the ripples on a pond vs the object that created the ripples. My problem with these kinds of gods is that if we find that the mechanisms for the reality respond universally the same as they would without a god being involved then we are left with no god, a trickster Theist god, a Deist god, or Pantheist god with no way to sort out which. If the trickster Theist god likes to change things and then make it seem natural he could and you would only find the evidence he wanted you to find to hide his connection to reality. I really dont know if thinking about this from this broad categorical level helps or not, but I sure find it interesting! Presently i hold that there are no gods of any kind except those made by man. We don't see the workings of any gods except by those who hold that whatever is or has happened to them is because of there faiths or beliefs or seemingly answered prayers etc..My step mom was cured of cancer by b-17, though many had told her they were praying for her [catholic religion], of course her taking the product was unknown to them when they kindly enlightened her to the fact of gods miracle. Then once they found out, then again it was "see, through you giving her the vitamins, god had answered our prayers", that's the thing about "faith" no matter how something happens if it's good, then god is given the credit, lol. but when the prayer warriors pray day in and day out for the duration of others that do not make it and die, the answer is gods will was done and they are now in a better place. a religious catch 22, does that sound like the markings an all knowing all powerful god? To me it simply means that people are willing to believe whatever they believe no matter what others may think or say or do. Does that make anyone wrong? No, it just doesn't make them right either. there are so many more important things to concern ourselves with than magic, well.... except maybe for jellybean, lol. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Billy... there is a DIFFERENCE between having just religion.... versus having relationship. Now..Not all who say they are christian , have an actual relationship with God YET (a christian is one who now has relationship established back with God ,Which comes only thru salvation....or in other words, believing and accepting Jesus as Saviour into one's heart). But Many who call themelves christian, still only have just religion. However.. that doesn't mean that won't eventually change...as God at just the right time ,will eventually lead them into relationship also(IF they are hearing the Word of God preached, that is)....... In other words.... If the religion is actually teaching the Word of God ,and the Word of God is being preached (and not just man's opinion ), than that is what will draw man unto salvation(there is power only in the hearing of God's Word being preached ....there is no power to save , if one is just hearing just man's opinion being preached ). Going to church to hear the Word of God is good...nothing wrong with the Christian religion at all.... but it is just that not everyone IN church is SAVED YET. But in the process of getting Christian religion, one will eventaully be convicted by hearing God's Word..and faith will come... and one will become saved ( again,only IF they are hearing the Word of God being preached, and NOT just man's opinion ). So therefore,it is SALVATION that makes one a true Christian.... because that person now , no longer just has religion...but now has relationship with God ...which comes thru salvation. And that is what a real christian is.  Simply put....a christian is One who is born again. And hopefully..ALL...especially upon the hearing of God's Word, will also be born again one day. Too. Amen. LOL LMAO, Nice try MS, hope your doing well, Let me ask you though, why do you want to be saved? or have others saved? what are your hopes or beliefs in this next life and what will be your rewards for your good stewardship of christs teachings? what are your hopes and expectations for the waiting infinite life that awaits you or others who follow him? Personally i don't want to live forever, and i guarantee you my wish will come true, are you as sure of your wishes? Other questions answer directly please, thank you, 1, it is said by christ that there will be neither marriage or given in marriage which would rule out sex in the afterlife, according to gods commands of having to be married for that. i assume unless you point out where this differs that that would also mean no angels would have sex either even before mans creation, that could mean that angels had no sexual organs except it also says that after the fall, angels mated with female humans. If the angles as i understand it, were non sexual beings, why would they have sexual organs to begin with? what would the purpose be, if they are neither man or woman what good would it do them? Now i don't know how you feel about sex in general i would assume you think it's fine or wonderful when with the right person and in marriage, and if you like it, by chance, then why would you want to live without it, not for decades or centuries but for eternity? is it your belief that when you die you will remain that age forever? If not what age will you be do tell? will children that died at birth or when very young still be that age? If so, will their minds still be infantile and remain that way forever? So many questions so few answers - and please baby, none of the only god knows stuff, I've already been through that scene a thousand times. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
tribo
on
Tue 02/21/12 12:37 PM
|
|
Every word of scripture is true. That includes that hell is a real place. But God also draws man and give every man a chance to know Him. God will draw...convict.. God sends no man to hell... man sens himself there...by still rejecting Jesus to the very end, and only after God has repeatedly reached out time and time and time again....and man still ends up rejecting God when he leaves this earth. When God is drawing you, you will know. God knows that on our own , NONE OF US are able to come to Him and believe in Him ,and accept Him ,on our own. We just can't....we are not able to.....cause sin has separated us from God and also as a result,our spirtual eyes are blind. That is why God draws..and reaches out to us.....and deals with our hearts..so we WILL come to Him and accept him, so that we may be saved. God alone does the saving...but God will never force anyone to accept Him. But God WILL deal with all our hearts ....and gives us ALL a chance to come to Him ..and accept Him into our hearts. God turns NO ONE AWAY, Who calls upon his Name ,and with a sincere heart. Let us not underestimate the Power of God...and what God is Able to do. Amen. gonna be a lonely place up there with just you and the trinity, hope you like bridge. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
See the problem i have with any of the Abrahamic religions is the fact that according to them if i don't believe in their God i'm going to a mythical place called hell and suffer eternal damnation.On the other hand i look at them knowing when they finally die,their body functions have stopped and do not have to answer to anyone. It just kind of irks me knowing that people have this false security that if they follow the rules of a mythical God and Jesus for christians that they'll end up in this mythical place called heaven. Well when they're dead atleast they won't have to worry about the disappointing fact of there being no heaven cause they'll be in a eternal death sleep. Nah, dude.. I'm tellin' ya.. When we pass on.. ..our souls do head northward.. However, they make no pit-stop in the clouds. No. Instead, our soul travel to the opposite end of the universe and take the form of a new soul in another race of humans living in a far off place. It also explains that if we did in fact return as another being why we hold little to none remembrance of our life prior; becaue by the time our soul reaches that other planet.. it wouldn't recall nada. :D LMAO, interesting take on afterlife. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
..which ultimately is the 'said claim'. Ahh, makes sense, however. I was raised southern Babtist and I WAS taught that if you did not believe in Jesus as your savior you would be sent to hell and there was nothing saying it wouldn't be forever. So any given person may argue scripture, but to deny that these tactics are not used by many Christians is to stick your head in the sand. Just my .02 Hmmmm, was this a deflection tactic or an obscured "no need to show evidence BS"? Or perhaps it was your evidence in an appeal to authority? Whatever it was, it's time for you to pull your head out of the sand and recognise what it is that you are doing... You apply the double-standard, sliding scale rule of requirements for "evidence".... OK, the Southern Baptists taught you about "Jesus" and "Hell", I get that... So then why do you question the existence of God? If you can take oral testimony and draw conclusions as well as make claims about "hell", then what's the difference between that and the existence of God? With one you require "spectacular" evidence, the other, hearsay testimony? To be honest, I'd have to say that your line of reasoning is what should constitute "magical thinking". After all, it seems to give you the ability to deny what you have posted... It took Sin_and_Sorrow's post to show you the claim(s) you made, doesn't that slight mishap cause you to question your own memory and/or perception? There were actually two claims made, but I thought I would make it easier for ya by only focussing on one. "Yea real nice guy this god that requires you believe in him or he makes you suffer for eternity." 1st claim: God requires you to believe in Him... 2nd claim: He will make you suffer for eternity if you don't believe in Him... So, do you apply the scientific principal and verify your own claims? Or do you simply believe whatever someone tells you and say "no need to show evidence"? Who are you "spider" in disguise???? |
|
|
|
|
