Cowboy wrote:

You have a strange fear fetish? I said I fear nothing, because I have faith in the Lord. I have faith in his everlasting love and forgiveness. Saved from death. And again, I never said I feel other people should be in fear, or anything of such. We're here again just expressing and sharing beliefs. Not preaching. I am here for the community, the conversation, and to gain general knowledge of other people's beliefs. Why you so caught on fear?

I won't hesitate in the least to point out TRUTHS about the Hebrew fables, including that it's fear-based. Including the FACT that Jesus is portrayed as being a demigod, conceived by a mortal woman who was impregnated by a God.

And so on and so forth.

As long as you are going to continually argue with me trying to convince me that the story has merit I'll point out the absurdities that I see in these fables without the slightest hesitation.

The more you argue to support the story the more arguments I'll give to reveal why it's totally without any merit at all.

That harder you PUSH, the harder I'll PUSH BACK.

I'm not about to cave into your religious proselytizing.

You keep refusing to confess that the Christian religion is fear based, yet you truly have no choice in that at all.

It's totally meaningless to speak about being 'saved' from something that doesn't pose a threat that needs to be 'feared'.

So Christianity is absolutely a fear-based religion. You can deny that until you're blue in the face, it won't do you any good.

There would be no need for a "savior" in a religion where no threat was being posed.

Christianity is necessarily a fear-based religion. There's just no getting around that one.

As long as you are going to continually argue with me trying to convince me that the story has merit I'll point out the absurdities that I see in these fables without the slightest hesitation.

You are indeed a model proselytizer Cowboy. You take your own proselytizing tactics and try to twist them around to shove them in the face of your victims.

Your constant harping for the need for a "savior" is fear-based.

If I have nothing to fear I have no need of any "savior".

And I don't have anything to fear. So I have no need for any "savior".

The need to fear something is paramount to your religion.

It has nothing at all to do with me. So why are you shoving your fears in my face?

You are the one who is obsessed with a need to be saved from something, and that amounts to fear. A fear of not being saved from whatever it is that you fear.

Death evidently is your greatest fear.

I have no fear of death. And I wouldn't fall for any religions that claimed to have the patent rights to save people from death anyway. Such religions could only be the superstitious fabrications of men who themselves fear death.

there was no 'fault' with Gods covenant. (such a concept fits not God)...

The 'fault' is then a sand upon that Gem.

For a 'fault' to exist it must have been place there by man.

Sands upon the Gem.

When one follows the sand one misses the footsteps.

Cowboy wrote:

Abbra, I don't argue with you. I don't even talk WITH you. Again, this is a discussion bored. Things said on here are in general, they are not directed specifically to a certain someone, unless their name is included. I refuse to talk with you on generally. Because all you do is spread hatred. And I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Just here to discuss the different topics and share my beliefs on the subject. I couldn't care less if you agree with them, believe them, or just flat out ignore them. Changes nothing. This is a forum for sharing and expressing one's own beliefs. Not for recruiting, or converting,or anything of such. So please once again keep your hatred to yourself.

There's no hatred here Cowboy.

I'm just pointing out the truth.

You preach that people need a savior, then you act like there is no threat to be saved from.

You become emotionally distraught over this because you know I'm right and you can't deal with that.

So then you accuse me of hatred and all sorts of negative things.

The religious scenario that you continually support and preach is fear-based.

Period amen.

Call that "hatred" if you must, but it's just the TRUTH.

The religious scenario that you continually support and preach is fear-based.

When God first made the covenant there was no fault. And don't know exactly what God saw faulty in the first one either. Could have changed when the population of the world grew to a certain degree, could have been any possible thing.

Cowboy wrote:

I know I have no threat for I have accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour and full entire faith in him that he will save me from death.

A fear base religion would never work. It would scare everyone from believing in it in the first place. Why would someone believe in something that scared them? Made them fear something? Or cause any form of discomfort? What I spread is love.

Well, there you go. Your fear was death, and now you believe that you have been saved from what you fear.




No you don't spread love. On the contrary you spread the idea that people should fear death and that they have a need to be saved from death.

You also spread the idea that there is only one way to be saved from death, and that entails believing in your entire religion as you interpret it to be.

When people attempt to share alternative spiritual views you argue with them endlessly until you eventually accuse them of being hateful people for refusing to be assimilated into your belief system.

That is far from love Cowboy.

But yes, I do believe that this is your idea of love. That much I do believe.

No you don't spread love. On the contrary you spread the idea that people should fear death and that they have a need to be saved from death.

You also spread the idea that there is only one way to be saved from death, and that entails believing in your entire religion as you interpret it to be.

When people attempt to share alternative spiritual views you argue with them endlessly until you eventually accuse them of being hateful people for refusing to be assimilated into your belief system.

Cowboy wrote:

I personally am one that can agree to disagree.

The original subject of this thread was about Messianic Jews (or Christians) (--or whatever they "really" are--) calling their ministers "Rabbi" and their churches "synagogue" and "Jesus" Yeshua in order to peddle it to "confused Jews." (As the Rabbi called them.)


So I would like the discussion to stay a bit more on topic please.

I would like to hear from some of these Messianic Jews or Jews for Jesus on this topic and ask them how they feel about it, or why they don't just become normal Orthodox Christians.

Is this an entirely new religion? Have these Jews just decided that the Messiah has come, and he is Yeshua?

Most orthodox Jews do not try gaining converts. In fact they do more to discourage them. Yet these Messianic Jews seem to be (covertly) trying to convert Jews apparently. Or do they take anyone? I suspect they probably will take anyone, but they target Jews.

I'm just curious how their beliefs differ from Judaism and Christianity. Are they somewhere in the middle?

Abra, at least you think of them as rumors. I tend to suspect they were intentional fiction, written for a specific purpose of developing religions and training humans to worship alien gods. (The slave masters.)

Alien (non-human) culture is one that regularly practices and sanctions slavery throughout the universe. Slavery is a step up the evolutionary chain compared to the old culture, which was just to destroy and slaughter everyone on the planet and take over stealing all its resources. (It sort of reminds me of the story of Joshua which did not happen at all.) Of course that story, like many other Biblical tales could be rewritten myths of ancient galactic civilizations.

Sorry, its late and the psyche who studies the galaxy aliens is in control of my body. I better put her to bed.

For those of you who don't know it, I have multiple personalities.

night.

But that's not what you've been doing. You've been accusing me of insulting and bashing your beliefs by stating what I believe.

That's not agreeing to disagree. That's making an accusation.

No one on planet Earth today should be insulted or offended in any way by someone suggesting that they don't accept the Hebrew writings to be the word of God. Or by suggesting that they believe that Jesus was most likely just a mortal man like the rest of us who ended up becoming the fodder for superstitious rumors.

That should in no way be 'offensive' to you.

It doesn't matter if you believe in the stories. That's totally irrelevant. The fact that someone else has reason to suspect other, more mundane and secular explanations are also possible should in no way be offensive to you.

When I offer such explanations, you quote my posts, and "argue" against them. (i.e. You try to make a case why you feel that the Christian story carries more merit).

I naturally address your 'arguments' explaining why I feel that they have no merit.

That's all fine and dandy.

But you don't stop there. When you become frustrated about this you start to accuse me of 'bashing' your religion, or 'insulting' your beliefs. Or you even accuse me of spreading 'hatred' simply because I refuse to accept your 'arguments' and point out why they don't impress me.

You even ignore all of that, and turn around and accuse me of 'not listening'. Like as if the only way I could be 'listening' is if I were to agree with you or something.

Also when I point out the fact that any religion that claims that people are in need of a savior must necessarily be suggesting they have something to be 'saved' from. That's a fear-based religion.

You've even argued against that, and tried to make out like my mere suggestion that this is the case is somehow 'hateful' on my part.

I personally think that I just bring up rock solid points and issues that you recognize cannot be refuted, and you become frustrated about that. So in your frustration you strike out trying to imply that I'm being hateful. When in fact, all I'm doing is making valid points to support my views that Jesus was most likely a mortal human being just like the rest of us, and these ancient rumors are just that. Superstitious rumors.

That's a valid belief in itself.

There is nothing anymore 'hateful' about people coming to the conclusion that the ancient Hebrew stories are just as outrageous as the ancient Greek stories and most likely just as false.

There is absolutely nothing 'hateful' in that conclusion at all.

You view it as being 'hateful' simply because it doesn't support your religious views. But that's your own assessment there.

There's no hatred coming from me.

I truly believe that the Hebrew stories and claims about Jesus are genuinely false superstitious rumors.

That's what I truly believe.

If anyone finds that to be 'insulting' or 'hateful' that's there problem, not mine.

There should be absolutely nothing 'insulting' about someone having a sound secular explanation for how these rumors came to be.

You just don't like it is all.

Well, I don't like the Hebrew rumors.

So if I was to take your stance, then I should find your beliefs to be 'insulting'.

And I DO, when you act like I should actually BELIEVE them.

I don't care whether you believe my views or not.

But if you're going to quote my posts and argue against my views, then don't be screaming 'foul' when I give a rebuttal to your explanations.

No one on planet Earth today should be insulted or offended in any way by someone suggesting that they don't accept the Hebrew writings to be the word of God. Or by suggesting that they believe that Jesus was most likely just a mortal man like the rest of us who ended up becoming the fodder for superstitious rumors.

It doesn't matter if you believe in the stories. That's totally irrelevant. The fact that someone else has reason to suspect other, more mundane and secular explanations are also possible should in no way be offensive to you.

When I offer such explanations, you quote my posts, and "argue" against them. (i.e. You try to make a case why you feel that the Christian story carries more merit).

everyone in religion thread is 'consumed' by their belief.

the best we can shoot for is to be adults in the way we try to express those beliefs

I don't think so. By "consumed" by their belief, I mean that they can't reason or consider any other possibilities.

You are not consumed.