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| Topic: "Aggressive spiritual predators." | |
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I have never known any spiritual predators. I know many Christians who believe they need to share the Gospel with everyone, but not a one who would keep talking if I said "stop". Yes, I've had plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and Baptists at my door. But, none who kicked in my door or refused to leave when I said, "no, thanks." I don't resent them for telling me I will burn in hell if I don't believe in X,Y or Z because I DON'T believe this. I never understood why people would get mad at someone for this. One of my friends gets furious at Christians because "They believe I am going to hell!" Well, who cares? It's like she believes it's going to be true because they say it is.  Try this scenario on and tell me if you would or wouldn't resent what this Baptist tried to pull on me one time: I'm working long 2nd & 3rd shift hours on my job and I'm awoken from a deep sleep by a loud knock at the door. There stands a 'missionary' with some 10-15 yr old kids with religious pamphlets. I told them "No thanks, I'm not a believer and I don't want to become one." "Well why not?" says the haughty adult missionary. "I'm sorry, but I don't buy the Bible's explanations for human nature. Or the nature of creation for that matter." "Weeeeeeellllllll, SIR, just WHO do you think created all !this! HMMMMMMM?", said the HAM. "I'm not having the discussion with you. Please leave.", I told him. Whereupon he turns to the kids, "See, you'll run across people like THIS". I just slammed the door because this kind of manipulation ALWAYS makes me angry. Anyone want to lay odds on what would happen if I, as an Unbeliever, went door to door using kids as props to proselytize for Atheism? And when was the last time you heard of an Atheist Priest covering up for another Atheist Priest who was molesting children? -Kerry O. What a Jerk. I think I would have gotten his name, and then called the police and reported him for verbal assault or peddling without a licence. |
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Any group with sub-entity ties 'covers' its skeletons.
To protect the group from the anger of the masses. |
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I dont agree with aggressive 'sales' in any situation. I consider such a scenario similar to someone at my door wanting to sale me candy bars or a security system or free oil change and not accepting that I dont wish to have any. I dont need to get nasty about it with them and they dont need to proceed in questioning me once I have said no. Not quite the same, because I live in an almost gated community that has only one access road, the front of which is CLEARLY marked "No Solicitation". Yet, the 'missionaries' blithely ignore it because THEY are representing ALMIGHTY GOD and are entitled to an exception. Religion may not be a commercial product that you buy for some sort of advantage. But it sure is marketed that way sometimes. -Kerry O. |
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Try this scenario on and tell me if you would or wouldn't resent what this Baptist tried to pull on me one time: I'm working long 2nd & 3rd shift hours on my job and I'm awoken from a deep sleep by a loud knock at the door. There stands a 'missionary' with some 10-15 yr old kids with religious pamphlets. I told them "No thanks, I'm not a believer and I don't want to become one." "Well why not?" says the haughty adult missionary. "I'm sorry, but I don't buy the Bible's explanations for human nature. Or the nature of creation for that matter." "Weeeeeeellllllll, SIR, just WHO do you think created all !this! HMMMMMMM?", said the HAM. "I'm not having the discussion with you. Please leave.", I told him. Whereupon he turns to the kids, "See, you'll run across people like THIS". I just slammed the door because this kind of manipulation ALWAYS makes me angry. Anyone want to lay odds on what would happen if I, as an Unbeliever, went door to door using kids as props to proselytize for Atheism? And when was the last time you heard of an Atheist Priest covering up for another Atheist Priest who was molesting children? -Kerry O. What a Jerk. I think I would have gotten his name, and then called the police and reported him for verbal assault or peddling without a licence. No, that just makes one a target. I just as soon stay COMPLETELY off their radar. Like that old aerospace ad in one of the Engineering magazines I get, "Because if they can't see you, they can't hit you." I asked the landlord for (and got) a peephole installed in my front door. I've taken to not answering the door if I don't recognize the people knocking as one of my neighbors. But I REALLY shouldn't have had to do this. C'mon, it's not like there isn't a single person tall enought to open the front door in this so-called Christian nation who hasn't heard the name 'Jesus' or 'The Good News'. Then there's always the religious junk mail one gets all the time, too.... -Kerry O. |
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Technically if a person spreading a lie believes what he is saying then they themselves are not lying. technically then, they are not spreading a lie, they are spreading less than factual information. to tell a lie requires intent. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 11/13/11 07:56 AM
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But what is your opinion of the tactics used? Ministers calling themselves "Rabbi" and calling their churches "synagogues," and calling Jesus "Yeshua?" I am also curious as to why the name Yeshua is any better than Jesus for these particular Christians? Messianic jews are born again jews ,who have accepted Jesus as their Messiah ( they are sometimes persecuted and under much attack for receivng Jesus as their Messiah...and sadly, there are also some incorrect teachings that are already trying to creep into the Messianic jewish setting also...but this is nothing new.... as false teachers have always tried to creep into the church , or body of Christ.... which Messianic jews are now a part of, also). The messianic jews still have their own jewish setting for their worship, however ....and not a church....but that is fine...we still are worshipping and lifting up the same Jesus (Jesus is pronounced Yeshua in Hebrew ). Again.....We are worshipping the Same Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. I for one, an very much into messianic praise and Worship and dance. "Israel's Hope" is one example of messianic praise music...find it and listen if you can......beautiful beyond description. Be Blessed Now, Everyone. Love You All...So Does God. 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 11/13/11 08:26 AM
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Messianic Jews are born again jews ,who have accepted Jesus as their Messiah ( they are sometimes persecuted and under much attack for receivng Jesus as their Messiah. Are you suggesting then, that a person such as myself, being a non Jew by blood, would not be easily accepted into a Messianic Jewish church because I was not Jewish by blood (or by religion) in the first place? (So continues the confusion of what "Jewish" is, a religion or a tribe related by blood.) If these Messianic Jews want to be Christians why don't they just be Christians? And geeeze of course they will be claiming they are persecuted and under much attack. That seems to be what Jews like to do. It would be like me starting my own church and claiming that Jesus will now be called "Noodle" who is the son of the great Spaghetti Monster who was eaten in order to pay for our sins.  So I guess to qualify for this Messianic synagogue membership you either have to be a practicing and accepted Jew by religion, converted or otherwise, or simply be a person who has a Jewish mother. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 11/13/11 08:55 AM
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Morning song said: ( they are sometimes persecuted and under much attack for receivng Jesus as their Messiah...and sadly, there are also some incorrect teachings that are already trying to creep into the Messianic jewish setting also...but this is nothing new.... as false teachers have always tried to creep into the church , or body of Christ.... which Messianic jews are now a part of, also). You claim there are "incorrect teachings" creeping into this new religion. (Not going into specifics, as you said, this is nothing new.) The same thing happens in all Christian denominations. Each one makes the claim that the others have "incorrect teachings" and "false teachers" simply because they don't all match each others interpretations of the scriptures. Some very important questions: Here I DO want you to be specific. 1. WHO are persecuting Messianic Jews? 2. And by "attacked" do you mean physical attacks or simply criticism? 3. And by "persecuted" do you mean jailed, slaughtered or put in prison? (Or any and all of the above.) 4. If not, then what kind of persecution? Please tell me about these events. These are serious claims. I would like to know; what are your facts? I don't want rumors or opinions. To make the claims that they are being persecuted and attacked are very strong claims. These claims should not be made unless you have specifics and can site some facts. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 11/13/11 08:57 AM
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Messianic Jews accept all people.....they ARE
BELIEVERS in JESUS (Yeshua) ALSO ...same as Christians are ...but since their roots are jewish, they just call themselves Messianic Jews (Jews who have accepted Jesus as their Messiah or Saviour ). Same difference. Believers in Christ aren't into labels, Jeannie....we are into JESUS. Same Jesus we are worshipping. Gotta run ,Precious...time for Worship. 
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Some very important questions:
Morningsong, you have made some serious claims. You either need to back them up or stop making such claims as that is simply propaganda. I will be waiting for specifics. Here I DO want you to be specific. 1. WHO are persecuting Messianic Jews? 2. And by "attacked" do you mean physical attacks or simply criticism? 3. And by "persecuted" do you mean jailed, slaughtered or put in prison? (Or any and all of the above.) 4. If not, then what kind of persecution? Please tell me about these events. These are serious claims. I would like to know; what are your facts? I don't want rumors or opinions. To make the claims that they are being persecuted and attacked are very strong claims. These claims should not be made unless you have specifics and can site some facts. |
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It would be like me starting my own church and claiming that Jesus will now be called "Noodle" who is the son of the great Spaghetti Monster who was eaten in order to pay for our sins. Please bless our Pasta. In Noodle's name we pray. Pass the Parmesan please. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 11/13/11 09:01 AM
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It would be like me starting my own church and claiming that Jesus will now be called "Noodle" who is the son of the great Spaghetti Monster who was eaten in order to pay for our sins. Please bless our Pasta. In Noodle's name we pray. Pass the Parmesan please.  Be careful, you might be accused of persecuting someone. They will call you anti-pasta. A new movement called anti-pastaism would start. |
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Off to worship..will cover this later....but quickly now....
all denominations have the SAME basic fundamental truths we follow......so the different denominations are NOT what I am referring to, when I speak of the false teachings creeping in.... Jeannie.....will explain later..... |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 11/13/11 09:11 AM
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Specifics and facts please.
I'll be waiting. Now I must go have some holy communion spaghetti. With holy Parmesan Cheese. YUM YUM, I love this religion!! |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Sun 11/13/11 09:13 AM
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Persecution...meaning criticized...judged....as all
believers thru out history have always suffered persecution...that's how I meant, Jeannie.......gotta run now!!!
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I dont agree with aggressive 'sales' in any situation. I consider such a scenario similar to someone at my door wanting to sale me candy bars or a security system or free oil change and not accepting that I dont wish to have any. I dont need to get nasty about it with them and they dont need to proceed in questioning me once I have said no. Not quite the same, because I live in an almost gated community that has only one access road, the front of which is CLEARLY marked "No Solicitation". Yet, the 'missionaries' blithely ignore it because THEY are representing ALMIGHTY GOD and are entitled to an exception. Religion may not be a commercial product that you buy for some sort of advantage. But it sure is marketed that way sometimes. -Kerry O. solicitation is not restricted to commercial products some people dont obey posted signs, they are trespassing which is also not a good thing |
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Messianic Jews are born again jews ,who have accepted Jesus as their Messiah ( they are sometimes persecuted and under much attack for receivng Jesus as their Messiah. Are you suggesting then, that a person such as myself, being a non Jew by blood, would not be easily accepted into a Messianic Jewish church because I was not Jewish by blood (or by religion) in the first place? (So continues the confusion of what "Jewish" is, a religion or a tribe related by blood.) If these Messianic Jews want to be Christians why don't they just be Christians? And geeeze of course they will be claiming they are persecuted and under much attack. That seems to be what Jews like to do. It would be like me starting my own church and claiming that Jesus will now be called "Noodle" who is the son of the great Spaghetti Monster who was eaten in order to pay for our sins. So I guess to qualify for this Messianic synagogue membership you either have to be a practicing and accepted Jew by religion, converted or otherwise, or simply be a person who has a Jewish mother. kind of like qualifying to be 'american' it can happen by bloodline (Birth) or conversion (naturalization) |
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Specifics and facts please. I'll be waiting. Now I must go have some holy communion spaghetti. With holy Parmesan Cheese. YUM YUM, I love this religion!! That's what I'm having today. Seriously. Um cook'in up a spaghetti dinner today, and I've actually been looking forward to this all last week. I've been too busy to take the time last week, and I promised myself that I'll take Sunday off as a day of rest and labor in the kitchen all day instead of chopping firewood. 
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Persecution...meaning criticized...judged....as all believers thru out history have always suffered persecution...that's how I meant, Jeannie.......gotta run now!!! Well, if persecution simply means to criticize and judge another person's spirituality and that is considered "causing them to suffer", then having Christians been "persecuting" all non-Christians since the dawn of Christianity? I'm mean, that's all Christians ever do is criticize other for not believing in Christianity and judging them to have chosen to "reject God" by refusing to accept Jesus as "The Christ". By your very definition MorningSong you have just confirmed that Christians (at least in the sense of an organized religion) have been "persecuting" people of all other faiths, as well as atheists for millennia. This is one thing that I'll never understand. How can Christians be so BLIND? They constantly accuse (i.e. criticize and judge others) as having "turned from God" for not believing in Christianity, and they somehow to recognize or acknowledge that as persecuting the other person. But as soon as the other person challenged the Christian accusation (i.e. their criticism and judgment of others) the Christians scream that they are the ones who are being "persecuted". It's truly disgusting MorningSong when you stop and think about it. A Christian basically accuses me of refusing to accept God, and that's supposed to be OK. But if I turn around and question the validity of their accusations toward me, they accuse me of persecuting THEM! That is what makes the whole thing so utterly disgusting. Christian: "Believe like me or I will judge you to be turning from God". Non-Christian: "I'm sorry but I can't believe in your religion because from my point of view it has no merit" Christian: "HOW DARE YOU PERSECUTE ME AND MY RELIGION!" What?  I mean, seriously MorningSong that's precisely how I see it. The Christians constantly accuse other people of 'rejecting God' and inflict them with "the suffering of having been persecuted" (i.e. criticized and judged for their beliefs) But then when the Christian accusations are challenged, the Christians scream "FOUL" and act like they are the ones who are being persecuted. That's nonsense. As long as the Christians are going to constantly accuse, criticize, judge, and persecute other people on charges of "rejecting God" if they refuse to accept Jesus as "The Christ", then they have absolutely no right whatsoever to scream foul when people point out the utter absurdities in the Christian doctrine. I just can't believe how BLIND Christians are concerning this. You can't go around accusing others of "rejecting God" and pretending like you aren't "persecuting" them, if you are going to simultaneously claim that they are "persecuting" you when they challenge your beliefs. The only reason that Christians are 'persecuted' is because they are getting back precisely what they DISH OUT. They are the ones who cause the whole mess by accusing everyone else of "rejecting God" in the first place. The Christians cast the FIRST STONE to be SURE! They have absolutely no justification for screaming foul when those very same stones are tossed back at them. |
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Persecution...meaning criticized...judged....as all believers thru out history have always suffered persecution...that's how I meant, Jeannie.......gotta run now!!! Well, if persecution simply means to criticize and judge another person's spirituality and that is considered "causing them to suffer", then having Christians been "persecuting" all non-Christians since the dawn of Christianity? I'm mean, that's all Christians ever do is criticize other for not believing in Christianity and judging them to have chosen to "reject God" by refusing to accept Jesus as "The Christ". By your very definition MorningSong you have just confirmed that Christians (at least in the sense of an organized religion) have been "persecuting" people of all other faiths, as well as atheists for millennia. This is one thing that I'll never understand. How can Christians be so BLIND? They constantly accuse (i.e. criticize and judge others) as having "turned from God" for not believing in Christianity, and they somehow to recognize or acknowledge that as persecuting the other person. But as soon as the other person challenged the Christian accusation (i.e. their criticism and judgment of others) the Christians scream that they are the ones who are being "persecuted". It's truly disgusting MorningSong when you stop and think about it. A Christian basically accuses me of refusing to accept God, and that's supposed to be OK. But if I turn around and question the validity of their accusations toward me, they accuse me of persecuting THEM! That is what makes the whole thing so utterly disgusting. Christian: "Believe like me or I will judge you to be turning from God". Non-Christian: "I'm sorry but I can't believe in your religion because from my point of view it has no merit" Christian: "HOW DARE YOU PERSECUTE ME AND MY RELIGION!" What? I mean, seriously MorningSong that's precisely how I see it. The Christians constantly accuse other people of 'rejecting God' and inflict them with "the suffering of having been persecuted" (i.e. criticized and judged for their beliefs) But then when the Christian accusations are challenged, the Christians scream "FOUL" and act like they are the ones who are being persecuted. That's nonsense. As long as the Christians are going to constantly accuse, criticize, judge, and persecute other people on charges of "rejecting God" if they refuse to accept Jesus as "The Christ", then they have absolutely no right whatsoever to scream foul when people point out the utter absurdities in the Christian doctrine. I just can't believe how BLIND Christians are concerning this. You can't go around accusing others of "rejecting God" and pretending like you aren't "persecuting" them, if you are going to simultaneously claim that they are "persecuting" you when they challenge your beliefs. The only reason that Christians are 'persecuted' is because they are getting back precisely what they DISH OUT. They are the ones who cause the whole mess by accusing everyone else of "rejecting God" in the first place. The Christians cast the FIRST STONE to be SURE! They have absolutely no justification for screaming foul when those very same stones are tossed back at them. Well, if persecution simply means to criticize and judge another person's spirituality and that is considered "causing them to suffer", then having Christians been "persecuting" all non-Christians since the dawn of Christianity? I'm mean, that's all Christians ever do is criticize other for not believing in Christianity and judging them to have chosen to "reject God" by refusing to accept Jesus as "The Christ". By your very definition MorningSong you have just confirmed that Christians (at least in the sense of an organized religion) have been "persecuting" people of all other faiths, as well as atheists for millennia. You're completely wrong Abra. "Christians" do not criticise other's, they do not judge other, we know not if you or anyone else has rejected God. We believe Jesus is the only path to Heaven, yes. But we still know not if you or any other person will or will not enjoy the glory of Heaven. Nor do we persecute anyone. We are no greater then you, we have no more power then you, all judgement lays in the hands of Jesus Christ. |
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