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| Topic: "Aggressive spiritual predators." | |
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Jeanniebean wrote:  If he would ever actually listen to me, he wouldn't hold out that hope. I am not expecting him to believe as I do in a long shot. I just hold out the hope that he would listen and comprehend what I am saying. If he did, he would not continue to present his Bible as the answer to everything. That is where he is going in circles. He would know better. Truly, The only end result that would satisfy Cowboy is if we finally accept his belief that Jesus is Christ is Lord and Savior and that the entire Bible is the "Word of God". That's the only end result that he is interested in. Anything less that this and he's simply not done yet. |
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seems he isnt the only one though
the past 11 posts have been abra, jeannie. or me just saying,, its funny to watch how hard it is for us to see ourselves in others,,,, |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 11/17/11 02:59 PM
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seems he isnt the only one though the past 11 posts have been abra, jeannie. or me just saying,, its funny to watch how hard it is for us to see ourselves in others,,,, We don't have the same agenda as Cowboy. I am not trying to get him to see things my way. He has no idea what I believe or why. He is not interested in what I believe. So please don't compare me or Abra to him. Perhaps I should simply give him up as a lost cause. My only agenda has been to communicate in a two way street. He does not listen or comprehend so there is no two way communication going on at all. None. He is a preacher. His message is one way. He does not listen. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 11/17/11 04:02 PM
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seems he isnt the only one though the past 11 posts have been abra, jeannie. or me just saying,, its funny to watch how hard it is for us to see ourselves in others,,,, We don't have the same agenda as Cowboy. I am not trying to get him to see things my way. He has no idea what I believe or why. He is not interested in what I believe. So please don't compare me or Abra to him. Perhaps I should simply give him up as a lost cause. My only agenda has been to communicate in a two way street. He does not listen or comprehend so there is no two way communication going on at all. None. He is a preacher. His message is one way. He does not listen. I disagree. I respect you and Abra and Cowboy, and what I See is that you all believe what you believe and unfortunately, you seem to feel an expression of a different belief is an attack on your own whenever we communicate we are communicating our feelings, our knowledge, and our beliefs unless we speak to hear our own voice or post to read our own words, we are almost always trying to get others to see our point of view, even if they dont agree with it I think we all have that in common, that what we believe is what we believe, we want others to understand what and why, and thats what these forums are here for,,, it would be a shame if it was required to qualify each post with 'I believe' in order for people to understand that each persons reality comes from their perceptions and it is not about attacking anothers reality when they share their own,,, |
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Cowboy said: Is it truly hatred though? Or is it hopes to enlighten someone of the knowledge of God our father? If you are trying to enlighten someone to what you personally believe to be the knowledge of a God, then you are indeed trying to convince people to believe like you. You've stated repeatedly that you are not trying to convince anyone of anything. Now you're suggesting just the opposite. And what are you talking about you continual "convert" talk? Who's trying to "convert" anyone? Again, just having a spiritual discussion on the matter at hand. Unless again, you're feeling guilty that you are trying to convert people to your beliefs. I'm not feeling guilty about anything. Trying to make people feel guilty about things is solely the tactic of the religion you believe in. I offer people an alternative view of these ancient stories. And yes my view includes the conclusion that the old testament has no more merit than Greek Mythology, Jesus was most likely a mortal man, and the New Testament is most likely superstitious rumors. These are my conclusions based on years of study and contemplation concerning these ancient stories and claims. You offer arguments against my conclusions. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that at all. However when I offer reasons why your arguments aren't consistent and offer no valid explanations for the outrageous claims being made, you become angry and accuse me of "insulting" your beliefs, and/or "bashing" your religion, and/or simply being a "hateful" person for not accepting your views as if they are the unquestionable "Word of God". Well, I'm never going to do that. My stance is that the stories themselves are not the "Word" of any God. And even more importantly, you personal interpretations and explanations for these stories is certainly not the unquestionable "Word of God" as much as you would like to believe it may be. IMHO, you are just becoming increasingly frustrated because no explanation under the sun is ever going to make sense concerning these ancient inconsistent and contradicting stories. Yet apparently your sole goal is indeed to convince other people that they are consistent and sensible. When you see that you aren't making any progress in convincing other people of your beliefs, you resort to trashing them. Accuse them of insulting your beliefs. Accuse them of bashing your religion. If all else fails, just proclaim that they are hateful people in general. All that does is clearly demonstrate your own frustration of not being able to convince other people of your beliefs. And all the while you continually claim that you are not here to convince anyone of anything. Whilst simultaneously holding out your agenda to: ,... enlighten someone of the knowledge of God our father? You are never going to convince people who are 3 times your age to toss away their lifetime of considering these things to accept your personal interpretations of a religion that is itself highly fragmented in its own core beliefs, from Judaism, to Islam, to Catholicism, to the myriad of different views of Protestantism. You've taken it upon yourself to become the "savior" of the world through relentlessly evangelizing on a dating forum. And that is what you are doing is it not? Cowboy wrote: ,... hopes to enlighten someone of the knowledge of God our father? That's evangelism.  ~~~~~ With all due respect and with perfect sincerity, love, and trust, please consider the following carefully: If there truly is a righteous God, do you honestly believe that he would need you to convince other people of his existence? That would only imply that his system of righteousness and salvation for other people would depend upon YOU, and other evangelists.  That makes no sense. It has to be about the individual who is being judged. I'll be more than happy to answer any "charges" that I have supposedly "rejected God" on any judgment day that might come Cowboy. I know that such charges would indeed be false, and misguided. For you to continually harp at decent honest people that they need to accept Jesus as their Savior lest they will be condemned by God to spiritual death is,... well,... silly. Truly it is. Such a God would need to be as unjust and unrighteous as can possibly be. Your religion is ultimately based on the fear that God is unjust and will condemn decent righteous people to spiritual death if they fail to believe in a particular religion. Look at how many humans your God would need to condemn! Just based on that alone. If you are trying to enlighten someone to what you personally believe to be the knowledge of a God, then you are indeed trying to convince people to believe like you. All the Muslims, all the Jews, all the Pagans, all the Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, etc, etc, etc. It's simply unfathomable how many people your God would need to condemn just based on that one little tiny thing. If you are out to save the world via evangelism, you've got a whole lot of work cut out for you. And you may as well move on from me and Jeanniebean, because you're totally wasting your evangelistic efforts on us.  If you are trying to enlighten someone to what you personally believe to be the knowledge of a God, then you are indeed trying to convince people to believe like you. Enlightening someone and convincing someone of someone's beliefs are almost two entirely different things. Enlighten = To share, to give. Convince = Make the other person believe as one does. Two totally different things However when I offer reasons why your arguments aren't consistent and offer no valid explanations for the outrageous claims being made, you become angry and accuse me of "insulting" your beliefs, and/or "bashing" your religion, and/or simply being a "hateful" person for not accepting your views as if they are the unquestionable "Word of God". Not ment insultivly or anything of such. But the reason they seem inconsistent is cause you don't understand, and yes I've changed a little with new findings of knowledge that I did not possess prior. And you take things out of context of what people may say. At one point we may be talking about the old laws and I'll say something and you'll quote it and say I said differently in this other quote which in the other quote we were talking about the new laws, or something totally different. IMHO, you are just becoming increasingly frustrated because no explanation under the sun is ever going to make sense concerning these ancient inconsistent and contradicting stories. Not frustrated one bit, does not matter to me if you believe the scriptures are true or not. I mean yeah it does a little in the long run, I worry about people's well being. But for the discussion sake, it makes no never mind if you believe what I believe or not. You've taken it upon yourself to become the "savior" of the world through relentlessly evangelizing on a dating forum. Not true, this is a hobby for me. Something to do to pass the time. Not looking for sympathy, but being disabled I search for things to do productively with my time. And even if I don't show someone the authenticity in the scriptures, I have no wasted my time as again I've learned alot through these years I've been here. If there truly is a righteous God, do you honestly believe that he would need you to convince other people of his existence? Someone finding God is not God's job. It is the person's job. And yes people need a little help from time to time. Not saying it will come solely from me, as I'm merely just a servant of the Lord. Nor is that specifically what I'm doing here. I'm here again for the enlightening discussion on different beliefs. For you to continually harp at decent honest people that they need to accept Jesus as their Savior lest they will be condemned by God to spiritual death is,... well,... silly. What are you talking about? You act as if each and every post I ever make is fire and brimstone preaching. Again, just having a discussion in the forums about different religious beliefs. Just conversation with the community, I can save no one. |
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seems he isnt the only one though the past 11 posts have been abra, jeannie. or me just saying,, its funny to watch how hard it is for us to see ourselves in others,,,, We don't have the same agenda as Cowboy. I am not trying to get him to see things my way. He has no idea what I believe or why. He is not interested in what I believe. So please don't compare me or Abra to him. Perhaps I should simply give him up as a lost cause. My only agenda has been to communicate in a two way street. He does not listen or comprehend so there is no two way communication going on at all. None. He is a preacher. His message is one way. He does not listen. I disagree. I respect you and Abra and Cowboy, and what I See is that you all believe what you believe and unfortunately, you seem to feel an expression of a different belief is an attack on your own Here's the thing though, me, Jeannie or Abra will NEVER tell you that if you don't agree with us, you will go to hell or be killed, but the religious will. That very much is an attack using their particular God as the bully. That's the major difference between us and the religious, there is no pressure put on you to believe what we do. Would it help your life? Yes. Does it change your eternal destination or the reality of everything around us? No. You meaning the religious as a whole feel like you HAVE to save us so you push your beliefs on us even if we don't wanna hear it, but for us there is no such pressure and as such not the same burden. We may still tell you what we think or where you may be in err but there is no need to "save" you. It's two entirely different things. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Thu 11/17/11 04:37 PM
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seems he isnt the only one though the past 11 posts have been abra, jeannie. or me just saying,, its funny to watch how hard it is for us to see ourselves in others,,,, We don't have the same agenda as Cowboy. I am not trying to get him to see things my way. He has no idea what I believe or why. He is not interested in what I believe. So please don't compare me or Abra to him. Perhaps I should simply give him up as a lost cause. My only agenda has been to communicate in a two way street. He does not listen or comprehend so there is no two way communication going on at all. None. He is a preacher. His message is one way. He does not listen. I disagree. I respect you and Abra and Cowboy, and what I See is that you all believe what you believe and unfortunately, you seem to feel an expression of a different belief is an attack on your own Here's the thing though, me, Jeannie or Abra will NEVER tell you that if you don't agree with us, you will go to hell or be killed, but the religious will. That very much is an attack using their particular God as the bully. That's the major difference between us and the religious, there is no pressure put on you to believe what we do. Would it help your life? Yes. Does it change your eternal destination or the reality of everything around us? No. You meaning the religious as a whole feel like you HAVE to save us so you push your beliefs on us even if we don't wanna hear it, but for us there is no such pressure and as such not the same burden. We may still tell you what we think or where you may be in err but there is no need to "save" you. It's two entirely different things. when you speak of 'the religious as a whole', doesnt that imply that you dont allow for individualism within religion,,that there is only ONE way religious believe? if so,, how is that any different/better/ worse than an implication that one belief is correct? noone can tell you or me where we will go, as I said before, all we can do is state our BELIEF in what happens to us after we die I have had to build a thicker skin to 'adapt' to the repetitive negative stereotypes about religion and the bible in this thread,, why do some 'non religous' people have such a problem doing the same we are ALL sharing our beliefs,, I see NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL In this thread , everyone gets 'aggressive' about what they believe, they actively keep the debate going along the lines of 'this is what I believe and dont try to convince me I shouldnt, or belittle it,,,; |
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seems he isnt the only one though the past 11 posts have been abra, jeannie. or me just saying,, its funny to watch how hard it is for us to see ourselves in others,,,, We don't have the same agenda as Cowboy. I am not trying to get him to see things my way. He has no idea what I believe or why. He is not interested in what I believe. So please don't compare me or Abra to him. Perhaps I should simply give him up as a lost cause. My only agenda has been to communicate in a two way street. He does not listen or comprehend so there is no two way communication going on at all. None. He is a preacher. His message is one way. He does not listen. He does not listen or comprehend so there is no two way communication going on at all. None. Absolutely. Cowboy's basic position is one of "preaching" as much as he doesn't like to be associated with that term. He's already confessed to having an evangelical agenda. He often claim so be just "posting to the forum" and not conversing with anyone in particular. So could it be a "Two-way" communication. All Cowboy is trying to do is use the forums as a "broadcasting pulpit" to spread the word of his specific religion. He's not the slightest bit interested in what other people might believe, or not believe. All he does it continually harp at the very same thing over and over and over again like a broken record,... "Either acknowledge that Jesus is God and accept him as your savior, or die spiritual" Period amen. He's not here to "discuss" anything. Contrary to his constant denial his only agenda is to preach that Jesus is Lord and nothing else will do. That's "preaching" if there ever was such a thing. And then he becomes upset when people point this out and acts like they are somehow being 'hateful' toward him for 'accusing' him of being a "preacher". ~~~~ There are far better ways to evangelize a spiritual belief, IMHO. I have no desire to convince Cowboy that Christianity is wrong. I've told him countless times that I accept that his belief in Christianity and Jesus as "The Christ" is certainly respectable and I even personally believe that any creator that might exist would surely appreciate his sincerity and belief in those ideals. It's a real shame that he feels that it's an important part of his belief to try to convince (or enlighten) people to believe like he does. I will concede that this is a very unfortunate part of Christianity for everyone involved, both Christians and Non-Christians alike. |
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This is one side
'Either acknowledge that Jesus is God and accept him as your savior, or die spiritual' this is the other ' I respect your right to believe what you believe, however stupid and illogical a fantasy it is' both sides are equally 'insulting' and equally using the forum to express what they believe,, all niceties aside if thats a 'pulpit' ,,so be it |
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I come on the religious forum because I do like to discuss ideas about God, but I am seriously considering staying out of the religious forum. Its just a waste of time. |
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IT would be nice to hear from other 'religious' beliefs beside christian or atheist/agnostic,,,,
more options make for a more 'informative' discussion,,, |
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This is one side 'Either acknowledge that Jesus is God and accept him as your savior, or die spiritual' this is the other ' I respect your right to believe what you believe, however stupid and illogical a fantasy it is' both sides are equally 'insulting' and equally using the forum to express what they believe,, all niceties aside if thats a 'pulpit' ,,so be it I would disagree. If someone is constantly suggesting that to not believe Christianity is to turn against God, not only are they suggesting that whatever the other person believes is stupid and illogical, but they are also suggesting that the other person ought to know better. After all, how could you be choosing to "rejecting God" via your own free will choice and not even realize it? That makes absolutely no sense at all. So to even suggest to someone that they are refusing to "obey God's directives" or "rejecting our heavenly Father" is to suggest that, not only are they stupid, but they are willfully choosing to do a really stupid thing. (i.e. Turn against their very creator) Christianity is basically a religion that, by its very nature, is an insult to everyone who refuses to believe in it. It basically accuses everyone who refuses to believe in it as having chosen to reject God. It's the nature of the religion. ~~~~ When I try to point out that this very scheme itself appears to be a man-made religious scam, all I get back in return is, "Why are you bashing our religion?" This would be like the members of a cult telling me that if I don't join their cult I am rejecting God. And when I tell them that that makes no sense at all they say to me, "Why are you bashing our cult?" ~~~~ The truth is MsHarmony that the claims held out be the Christian doctrine make no sense to me. They do appear to be totally illogical and make no sense. If that's the reason I'm rejecting the religion, I can't help it. If people like Cowboy would quit trying to convince me to believe in the religion I would no longer have a need to explain why I don't believe in the religion. My reason for not believing in the religion is that it makes no sense, IMHO. I can't help that. That's just the way things are. If I thought it made any sense, I would give it some serious consideration. The fact that it makes no sense, is precisely why I reject it. |
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and it is your perogative to 'reject it' on the grounds that it makes no sense to you
just as someone else may feel like your point of view makes no sense to them ( or is a 'foolish' belief) ,,,its the same issue over and over on both sides, but noone sees the fingers point back at them when they point one at someone else,,,, |
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There rationalization is this Abra, this is what they are thinking:
"Well our religion is the truth." "Our God is the only God." "If they refuse to accept that, they are rejecting God and truth." Poor ignorant sinners. 
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Edited by
sweetestgirl11
on
Thu 11/17/11 06:46 PM
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this is in response to harmony's comment that she'd like to see commenters of various faiths I am a christian and an accepting bhuddist...I am an infant with my understanding of bhuddism I remain a Christian on the advice of the writings of the dalai lama who wrote that he feels we best understand our religion of origin and recommends we remain with it for that reason no one would ever understand what I believe, how or why. so I never talk about it I am not interested in debate, nor have I a need to defend myself or answer questions (I seldom answer) but I find great peace and faith in God in both forms....tho admittedly have a very limited understanding of bhudda & his teachings - the greatest enlightenment for me is the ability to know religion as a great mountain with many paths - grace in God is at the top. there are many roads that lead there. travel with friends. hence I am here namaste and Oh, BTW - I think Cowboy is a wonderful & intelligent young man - who does what young men with much fervor do & he does it well what does it matter the intention of his thought? he thinks nuff said! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 11/17/11 06:53 PM
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Jehovah Witnesses are trained very well to pretend they are interested in what you have to say and in what you believe.
They do listen to what you have to say, almost to the point where you think you are getting through to them a little. Don't be fooled. They will take what you tell them and attempt to lead you into their logic. They listened to you... (with their minds closed) ... now they expect you to listen to them. They change their game method of approach a lot. Its not always the same. I have decided that proselytizing your religion is a "sin." If someone asks me what I believe, unless they are truly interested, I am not interested in having a conversation with someone who is happy with what they believe. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 11/17/11 06:55 PM
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no one would ever understand what I believe, how or why. so I never talk about it That nails it for me too.  I talk about it, but only skim the surface. I to the point where I'm not interested in en-depth religous discussion anymore.  |
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this is in response to harmony's comment that she'd like to see commenters of various faiths I am a christian and an accepting bhuddist...I am an infant with my understanding of bhuddism I remain a Christian on the advice of the writings of the dalai lama who wrote that he feels we best understand our religion of origin and recommends we remain with it for that reason no one would ever understand what I believe, how or why. so I never talk about it I am not interested in debate, nor have I a need to defend myself or answer questions (I seldom answer) but I find great peace and faith in God in both forms....tho admittedly have a very limited understanding of bhudda & his teachings - the greatest enlightenment for me is the ability to know religion as a great mountain with many paths - grace in God is at the top. there are many roads that lead there. travel with friends. hence I am here namaste and Oh, BTW - I think Cowboy is a wonderful & intelligent young man - who does what young men with much fervor do & he does it well what does it matter the intention of his thought? he thinks nuff said! this 'a great mountain with many paths - grace in God is at the top. there are many roads that lead there' is a beautiful sentiment,,,thank you for sharing it
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this is in response to harmony's comment that she'd like to see commenters of various faiths I am a christian and an accepting bhuddist...I am an infant with my understanding of bhuddism I remain a Christian on the advice of the writings of the dalai lama who wrote that he feels we best understand our religion of origin and recommends we remain with it for that reason no one would ever understand what I believe, how or why. so I never talk about it I am not interested in debate, nor have I a need to defend myself or answer questions (I seldom answer) but I find great peace and faith in God in both forms....tho admittedly have a very limited understanding of bhudda & his teachings - the greatest enlightenment for me is the ability to know religion as a great mountain with many paths - grace in God is at the top. there are many roads that lead there. travel with friends. hence I am here namaste and Oh, BTW - I think Cowboy is a wonderful & intelligent young man - who does what young men with much fervor do & he does it well what does it matter the intention of his thought? he thinks nuff said! this 'a great mountain with many paths - grace in God is at the top. there are many roads that lead there' is a beautiful sentiment,,,thank you for sharing it you are welcome and I am grateful that someone understands! |
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