So please, keep your hatred to yourself my friend, sit back, and enjoy the diverse community here.

Cowboy said:



I was unaware that you had been given the job of moderator Cowboy.

"Hatred" is a strong word. How can you claim to know what is in another person's heart?

Are we not allowed to express our frustration or anger on these threads? Are you now making the rules?

Well I'm frustrated. I don't tolerate preachers telling me I am a sinner.

I am not a sinner. God loves me for who I am no matter what I do or believe.

so there.

Now allow people to express their beliefs and feelings according to free will and freedom of speech.

So you accuse me of 'hatred' because I see you as preaching?

Especially after the fact that you came onto these forums originally proclaiming that you are a 'Servant of God who's purpose it is to spread his word'?

Why should you view any of that as 'hatred' on my part?

I personally think you are just trying to make me look bad because I refuse to accept or support your views.

You say,


Well, fine.

So you believe that some God has punished all of humanity for their supposed fall from grace. You believe that Jesus is the son of that God and that everyone who does not accept him as such will be condemned to spiritual death. You believe that the only wages of sin is death, and that somehow disbelief that Jesus was "The Christ" amounts to "sin".

I personally don't believe any of that.

I believe that the Old Testament is basically a take-off from Greek mythological ideas of a male Godhead who requires blood sacrifices to be appeased.

I believe that the stories about a man named Jesus are nothing more than superstitious rumors potentially sparked by the life of an actual mortal man who basically rejected the Old Testament just as I do, and was crucified for his views.

There is no 'hatred' in any of that.

I give total respect to the historical figure (presumably named Jesus) who may have sparked these superstitious rumors. It's the rumors themselves that I reject on many rational grounds.

There is no 'hatred' in any of that.

On the contrary, I have great respect for anyone who stood up against the immoral teachings of the Torah. That religion basically had people judging each other and stoning each other to death in the name of God. It also had people judging others to be blasphemers and heathens and killing them as well. In fact, the only thing that allowed the Pharisees to incite a mob to support their crucifixion of Jesus was indeed the teachings of the Torah itself. That's where they got the religious authority to murder blasphemers in the name of God in the first place.

~~~~~

From my point of view any God who would direct people to murder heathens who blasphemy "His Word", and then send his only begotten son into that same crowed to blasphemy "His Word" would need to be a truly confused entity.

Since I find it impossible to believe that an all-wise entity would do such an utterly foolish thing, I conclude that these stories, as proclaimed in the New Testament, cannot possibly be true.

Again, there is no 'hatred' in any of that.

I'm simply rejecting stories that I see as being totally nonsensical.

~~~~~

I actually "save" Jesus, from this incredibly unbelievable scenario and elevate him to the status of having been a very wise mortal man who actually rejected to these immortal behaviors and teachings.

So where is there any 'hatred' in any of that?

You call it 'hatred' simply because you would prefer to believe in those stories.

You call it 'hatred' simply because you are frustrated that you can't get me to agree with your belief and support of these stories.

But I simply see no reason to give them my support.

I do not care to support what I see as superstitious rumors about a God who would condemn all of humanity to spiritual death for what I consider to be trivial things.

~~~~

Not meant to argue with your "beliefs", but simply to once again explain why I do not believe in these stories allow me to say the following:

It makes absolutely no sense to me that some supposedly all-wise God would condemn all of humanity to spiritual death as a punishment for having disobeyed him, only to later send his 'only begotten son' as an offering to 'save' humanity from his very own condemnation of them.

At the very least this would represent a very unstable God who can't even decide how he wants to deal with his creation.

I realize that you'll no doubt have your 'apologetic excuses' for how you think this could potentially make some kind of sense. And that's fine. But I can assure you up front that your excuses are not going to make any sense to me. They never have in the past, and I see no reason to believe that they will start to make any sense in the future. I've heard most of these apologetic arguments already from standard religious sources. They fail to impress me or solve any of the issues that I have with these ancient stories.

No 'hatred' involved with any of that.

~~~~

If you're going to continually perceive my refusal to accept your beliefs as some form of 'hatred' aimed toward you, or toward the religion that you would like to believe in, then please quit reading my posts and responding to my views.

There is no hatred aimed toward you personally.

Hatred aimed toward the religion? Possibly in some capacity without a doubt. I do confess to having a very great dislike of the relentless proselytizing of the religion being preached to people as almost emotional harassment, or emotional terrorism if they refuse to join, agree with, and support the religion.

That's the topic of this very thread, "Aggressive Spiritual Predators".

Yes, I view that kind of behavior to be quite negative and detrimental to society. I 'hate' it in the same way that I 'hate' something like cancer. Such relentless religious proselytizing is, IMHO, a cancer on society.

I also find it to be particularly distasteful when it is done in an underhanded way. Like under the pretense that a person is merely 'discussing their spiritual beliefs' when in fact, they are proselytizing to the hilt without any consideration at all for the other person's beliefs.

Honest preachers who constantly harass people are bad enough. Dishonest preachers are the epitome of hypocrisy. There is no 'low' to which they will not stoop to continue their proselyting harassment toward 'non-believers' of their religion.

And when it becomes that low, it deserves to be 'hated'.

Nothing good can come of deception. If a spirituality cannot be put forth with total open honesty then it has become corrupt and has nothing but rotten fruit to bear.

Just my own personal view on that.

No 'hatred' intended. Especially if the shoe doesn't fit.

Especially after the fact that you came onto these forums originally proclaiming that you are a 'Servant of God who's purpose it is to spread his word'?

Why should you view any of that as 'hatred' on my part?

So you believe that some God has punished all of humanity for their supposed fall from grace. You believe that Jesus is the son of that God and that everyone who does not accept him as such will be condemned to spiritual death. You believe that the only wages of sin is death, and that somehow disbelief that Jesus was "The Christ" amounts to "sin".

You believe that the only wages of sin is death, and that somehow disbelief that Jesus was "The Christ" amounts to "sin".

From my point of view any God who would direct people to murder heathens who blasphemy "His Word", and then send his only begotten son into that same crowed to blasphemy "His Word" would need to be a truly confused entity.

You call it 'hatred' simply because you would prefer to believe in those stories.

You call it 'hatred' simply because you are frustrated that you can't get me to agree with your belief and support of these stories

It makes absolutely no sense to me that some supposedly all-wise God would condemn all of humanity to spiritual death as a punishment for having disobeyed him, only to later send his 'only begotten son' as an offering to 'save' humanity from his very own condemnation of them.

Truly.

It seems to me that going around telling everyone that they are sinners who are turning against God if they fail to believe a certain, way and will be condemned to spiritual death for their disbelief, is indeed a 'hateful' thing to do.

And then to accuse the people who refuse to accept such a hateful accusation as being 'hateful' just adds insult to injury.

Proselytizers never fail to amaze me by the cold-blooded nature of their proselytizing. First they try to make out like God will 'hate' you if you fail to accept their proselytizing, and when that fails, they resort to branding you as a 'hateful' person for not accepting their proselytizing.

Where does it end?

I think this is so totally fitting to this thread topic too.

"Aggressive Spiritual Predators"

If they can't convert you they attempt to brand you as being a 'hateful' person.

Is it truly hatred though? Or is it hopes to enlighten someone of the knowledge of God our father?

And what are you talking about you continual "convert" talk? Who's trying to "convert" anyone? Again, just having a spiritual discussion on the matter at hand. Unless again, you're feeling guilty that you are trying to convert people to your beliefs.

You don't have the knowledge of God. You can't enlighten anyone. Sorry.



Abra is not trying to convert anyone. You are preacher.

Calling your beliefs "knowledge" is an untruth. Your beliefs are all faith based in one book. The Bible.

We are full aware of what you believe, so what might you be enlightening anyone of?

You don't have the knowledge of God. You can't enlighten anyone. Sorry.

Abra is not trying to convert anyone. You are preacher.

Calling your beliefs "knowledge" is an untruth. Your beliefs are all faith based in one book. The Bible.

We all do, why would God not give us the knowledge of himself? He wishes to have a relationship, so in order to do that, would he not have to give us the knowledge on how to establish that?



Nor am I trying to convert anyone lol. Just here for the discussion. Why do you guys feel there is motive behind my discussions?



What is knowledge then? Is knowledge knowing that Columbus discovered America? Where you there? Or do you get your knowledge from a third party putting faith in that it is true?

not quite the same as trying to prove the Bible with itself!

No one's trying to prove anything, nor can anything be proven. I can not prove to you that the sky is blue. This knowledge is gained when one accepts it, just as it is with all knowledge.

We all do, why would God not give us the knowledge of himself? He wishes to have a relationship, so in order to do that, would he not have to give us the knowledge on how to establish that?



Nor am I trying to convert anyone lol. Just here for the discussion. Why do you guys feel there is motive behind my discussions?



What is knowledge then? Is knowledge knowing that Columbus discovered America? Where you there? Or do you get your knowledge from a third party putting faith in that it is true?

Why do you guys feel there is motive behind my discussions?

If you are claiming that we all have knowledge of God then no one needs to enlighten anyone. If God wishes to have a relationship then where is he? Please define God because I don't know what you are talking about by that term "God."

Learn what knowledge is, then you will have some knowledge. I don't get my knowledge from a single source like you do. (The Bible) I get my knowledge from many sources.



Its pretty obvious.

You know what we believe and we know what you believe so what else is there to say?

If you are claiming that we all have knowledge of God then no one needs to enlighten anyone.

You know what we believe and we know what you believe so what else is there to say?

We do have it, it's all gathered together nicely in scriptures that most are gathered together in what we call the Holy Bible.

What is the point of a "discussion" then? I do not know what you believe.

I know what you don't believe in, but that doesn't mean I know what you do believe in, or some other person(s) ect.

That is what this forum is for, to learn about different people on a different level then "Hi, my name is..." Religion generally molds the person into who they are.

respectfully,, doesnt circular conversation take more than one person?

Yes it does.

The only reason I even respond to Cowboy is that I have a glimmer of hope that a light bulb might go on inside of his head one day, and we can bridge the gap. But I don't think that will ever happen.

I think he probably feels the same,, you just both have a different 'lightbulb' in mind,,,

Cowboy said:

Is it truly hatred though? Or is it hopes to enlighten someone of the knowledge of God our father?

And what are you talking about you continual "convert" talk? Who's trying to "convert" anyone? Again, just having a spiritual discussion on the matter at hand. Unless again, you're feeling guilty that you are trying to convert people to your beliefs.

,... enlighten someone of the knowledge of God our father?

Cowboy wrote:

,... hopes to enlighten someone of the knowledge of God our father?