Ya, like two planes fully loaded with fuel crashing into buildngs. LOLOLOL!

Yup, simple like the "Truthers" minds!

lpdon you just make snide remarks and you don't read a damn thing so you don't even know what side you are on.

Do you have something against the truth? I think you do.

Nah. He's just using the same tactic that many conspiracy theorists use in their own propaganda, whether its 9/11 or something else.

I still remember that "1488" debacle in one of the threads, where I revealed what 1488 was because one poster had it in his username and throughout his profile. He rattled off a bunch of conspiracy b.s. like it was just a memorized script, but he couldn't explain or defend a single belief. All he could say was that he KNEW he was right, and everyone else was wrong.

I took a look at some of Volant's video links. Each one was from the Glenn Beck show. There was nothing about FEMA camps other than just unsubstantiated rumor. However, the Pittsburgh shooting involved a guy who was a neo-Nazi, and who was collecting a cache of weapons which his mother called illegal during the 911 call.

Neo-Nazism preys upon ignorance and disillusionment. They look for the people who are frustrated with the world around them, and then they offered them something to believe in - conspiracy theories. In truth, neo-Nazis are the conspirators. They actually do have a hidden agenda underneath all the layers of propaganda. That's one of many reasons why most people disregard them - they can see through the b.s. On top of that, neo-Nazis advocate the use of violence and terror.

When I was an electrical apprentice, one of the guys in my classes was a neo-Nazi. Even had a tattoo of a swastika. He seemed like a nice guy until you began talking about politics or religion, and then he got all Bismarck, preaching blood and iron. He would get so worked up that I could see it would take very little to set him to beating someone into a bloody smear. Violence and fear are their shields against the truth, and tools to promote their own agenda.

The Great American Conspiracy = White Supremacy

neo-Nazis, the Aryan Nations, KKK, skinheads, Odinists, White Patriot Party, World Church of the Creator, White Aryan Resistance, etc.

They all hold whites above all darker races, and mark Jews as global conspirators. And all of these groups exist, or have existed, within the U.S. We may be the only nation on the planet which can make that claim.

I've never read much of Glen Beck, but I'm sure I've run across a few of his things. Alex Jones and Infowars is a disinformation agent I can't stand him. He loves spreading fear panic and paranoia.

I don't read much from people or sites that are deep into the religious angle, God and Satan etc. That's when I know their agenda and motivation. That's not to say they don't have some true information, but you really have to sift through it and check it out with other sources before you take it seriously.

Mixing truth with fiction is a tactic EVERYONE will use.

I've been aware (keeping track) of the shady dealings of the CIA for over 20 years though, starting with the Iran Contra affair. They are still at it. You don't hear much about what they are doing until they get caught red handed, and then you are lucky to hear about it even then because it is covered up.

I suspect their next target is Hugo Chavez.

Then he should know alot about steel ductility. People claim to be alot of things on the internet anyhow.

I am just a simple CNC lathe operator with a background in heat treating steel.
Also spent some time working in a forge shop.

I suppose if you think about it logicly one would have to come to some conclusions. A plane is basicly aluminum with the exception of the landing struts and fuseloge. Aluminum would just shred to pieces against high grade construction I beams.

Alot of the fuel would have been burned in flight especialy since they stopped toping off fuel tanks decades ago to avoid hauling all that weight around. Another large amount was burned off on the impact note the fire ball.

So I dont buy for one minute that these planes alone took down three towers causing a systamatic and total building failure, I would however buy it if say they admited they used bad material in combination with poor architecture they havent and they wont because the design was sound.

They had to have an excuse so they claimed it was the fires.

I dont buy it because I didnot see a towering inferno what I saw was oxygen starved fires pumping out alot of smoke and on some vidoes what appeared to be melted steel pouring out.

A open air fire would never ever be able to melt steel in this fashion so what did?

He likes to boast about how much he knows, for sure. But he even said the official article about why the towers fell was flawed, so he agreed with me.

Oh really? You care to explain this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izjfdfDHjWQ

Pay attention to part 1, he outright ADMITS he couldn't debunk them, and then suddenly changes his tune a bit later. Wonder why? Someone got in his ear and had him shut up, there is not a doubt of it in my mind.

FEMA camp rumors first came about because of Ruby Ridge and Waco. The rumor was completely non-existent prior to then. The idea was a response to the government attacking women and children, and those who later joined the militia movement sought an explanation. Discussion with similarly disillusioned groups led them to learn of conspiracy theories....of the NWO. When the first X-Files movie was released, the FEMA quote was given such attention that FEMA itself had to publish a memo to its employees to address the problem. That FEMA camps were mentioned in a movie only fueled the conspiracy theorists, as if they were somehow vindicated in belief by such exposure. That would not happen until 1998 though. First, a string of domestic and foreign terrorism would happen, stoking the proverbial fires.

Militia groups latched on to the concept of FEMA camps. Even though such camps never existed, a film made by Linda Thompson - who belonged to a militia and is reputed to have ties to Timothy McVeigh - about an alleged FEMA camp in Beech Grove, Indiana still persists online as a main focal point for FEMA camp believers. This film was made in 1994, long before 9/11. Misinformation concerning the executive orders regarding FEMA's organization still circulate on the internet. Falsified satellite photos of a North Korean forced labor camp were used to claim proof of the existence of a FEMA camp in Wyoming. And so on.

The truth is that this anti-government agenda began as a response to Ruby Ridge, Waco, and increasing pressure for tighter gun control. The militia movement was begun by disillusioned Christians who viewed the government as overstepping its bounds - as I said, by attacking women and children at both raids. Through online and radio interaction, these groups began discussing political views in a greater public sphere. For instance, at Ruby Ridge, Randy Weaver went to Aryan Nations meetings even though he never joined the white supremacy group. This is where the conspiracy theories began filtering into the militias. Because of an increase in paramilitary police units being used for hostage situations, drug raids, firearms raids, etc., the militia was already paranoid about the role their government was taken on. White supremacy groups fed this paranoia with their own conspiracy propaganda. Then "X-Files" mentions FEMA camps, and militia latch onto it, galvanizing their beliefs as they look for clues and evidence of their existence. This is akin to "Men In Black" when Agent K mentions that National Enquirer and Star have the most reliable info on space aliens. They are trying to create fact from fiction. They are using fiction as evidence of fiction even while distorting facts to create yet more fiction.

One of the favorite scapegoats of militia is NWO, the New World Order. NWO had been around in conspiracy theories since the 1960s, but it was George H.W. Bush's March 6, 1991 speech after Iraq had been driven out of Kuwait which militia took as evidence of NWO's existence. He mentions "new world", "new world order", and "world order" successively. This coming after Bush had already referred to "a thousand points of light" in his 1989 inauguration speech.

Many of those disillusioned with government seized upon this moment as proof that the NWO did exist, and that both Bush and the U.S. government were in on it. It has led to revival of stories about the Skull and Bones Society at Yale, where both Bush's and Bill Clinton earned degrees. At the same time, the economy was in shambles as it is now. Then we had a rash of domestic terrorism, and then foreign terrorism. Even though the domestic terror had been shown to have been linked to militia or radical groups, those same attacks have fueled distrust of the government, especially in the wake of 9/11 when Michael Moore raised doubts about 9/11 and the Bush family. Suddenly, New World Order was back on the map.

March 6, 1991 speech (transcript)
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/pal/pal10.htm

(video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=velLHHD-MZo


Here are some links. One is an article about debunking FEMA camps. The other is an academic paper about the rise and evolution of the militia movement. I had already noticed a few signs, but this really finished connecting the dots for me. These are not the only links I looked at, but they are the two most relevant references I dug up doing research tonight.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/4312850

http://press.umich.edu/pdf/9780472116829-origins.pdf

As I said before...

The Great American Conspiracy = White Supremacists

They exist. I've met them in real life. They have caused problems here on Mingle. They have been well documented for over 100 years. They believe in conspiracy theories, and they have an agenda. An some even began their own paramilitary militia camps back in the 1970s and 1980s....before Ruby Ridge or 9/11. Just look up James Wickman or Posse Comitatus. There is plenty of information out there on both. They received plenty of media coverage between 1981 and 1983, and Wickman was active at least through 2004. (I can't find the 20/20 story from the '80s, but Wickman was interviewed by Geraldo Rivera on 20/20 and Phil Donahue as several websites mention.)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90589&page=1

http://americanfraud.com/possecomitatus.aspx

http://americanfraud.com/theposse.aspx

Conservatives like to scoff and belittle Michael Moore. In truth, Michael Moore has a lot in common with these right-wing militia groups. Is he really as liberal as he is made out to be? Or is he actually part of something larger? What is the truth behind Michael Moore's agenda?

A clip from 1994...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXY0XTuk46I

Bowling For Columbine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkBEBwgP2Y4

Larry King
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4138T2VRgxs&feature=related

Wait a minute....Michael Moore grew up handling guns, but now he's anti-guns, but he owns a gun, but he doesn't need it because he has security, but he doesn't think he should need security because he makes movies. And he's interviewed militia members a number of times in Michigan....which is where James Wickman was living during the 1990s. Then Moore goes on to make "Fahrenheit 911" promoting a conspiracy theory involving the Bush family. So, which side is this guy really on? I don't know what's going on here, but it just makes you scratch your head. What's his agenda?

actionlynx,

I would classify Micheal Moore a militant myself.

(BTW--There is a conspiracy theory involving the Bush Family. They are criminals and drug dealers in my opinion.)

As for the FEMA camps, I don't know if they exist or not.

I also wonder why Popular Mechanics is the only lone magazine into debunking things. I'm reading their 9-11 debunking book and I'm not real impressed. It just seems to be a "he said" "she said" book of different opinions. It's only 170 pages, not very detailed. I'm disappointed really. I was hoping they could convince me but I'm still skeptical about a lot of things.

Why does our government think so many things have to be "classified?" What exactly are they hiding? It can't be so terrorists can't find out because we apparently were totally unprepared for terrorists on 9-11. So what is all the classified b.s. accomplished? Nada.

And the official 9-11 commission is pretty pointless if the CIA is a suspect... which they are. They are the entity that supplied most of the information to the 9-11 commission. What does the 9-11 commission know except what the CIA and FBI tell them? Very little to Nada. Do you seriously think they were allowed to see or know any "classified" information? I don't think so.

I had a neighbor of my aunt's who also is big into conspiracies and stuff, who mentioned to me and my folks one day about a ton of trailers just randomly stacked in this one area a little ways up the road from her. Sure enough when we went to check it out, there they were. She was convinced they were FEMA trailers, she never could get an answer as to why they are there.

Just some food for thought. Still wanna see someone debate that Beck video incidentally. It proves without a doubt to me something is VERY rotten in Denmark.

Yes one minute he is sure of the camps, and the next he is back stepping.

If anyone knows where any of the camps are, why don't they go check them out? I checked out one listed in Colorado and it was proved to be false. It was where they had a concentration camp for American Japanese during world war II.

If you are interested in my report I'll send you a link, let me know. Its a little funny, but I don't want to post the link on this club.

You sure about that Jeannie? Or was it just passed off as that? Not to doubt you, but am just asking. Would be interested in the link though either way.

Well at the beginning of the video he seemed really sure, then later he said he did not 'believe' in them, but that it is our responsibility to debunk them.

I don't know how you can debunk them. You can only find them and investigate them to see what they are for. If they exist, then you have to ask questions and demand answers. That is why I went to the one in Colorado to see for myself if it was being "renovated" as some website claimed. I was debunking that claim.

I think you misunderstood my question, wasn't about Beck, it was about the idea that this camp was a concentration camp back during WW2. Course it very well could have been, but who knows if they would be using it now for another purpose even then. That's what I was asking about though, sorry I didn't clarify.

Oh. Yes it was one of the camps during world war II where they put Japanese Americans. A grave injustice I might add.

As far as your Glenn Beck video, there is a portion of that video which has been edited out which bridged the discussion before he began explaining the concept of a FEMA camp conspiracy to FOX News hosts. The rest of the video beyond that segment, I had already seen. I tried to find the unaltered version of that video from Fox & Friends, but I have yet to find anything but edited and spliced videos which only serve to distort the context of the original content.

If you listen to what he says, Beck does not believe in a FEMA conspiracy. However, he cannot debunk it, and that, he says, troubles him. The reason obviously being that if such a conspiracy truly existed, it would have major ramifications. He never flip-flops. He just wants the issue either proven or disproven, and he has been able to do neither.

This is not proof they exist. It may not disprove it, but neither does it prove anything.

He did have another few shows which revealed the results of his investigation which had been conducted in conjunction with Popular Mechanics. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find any unaltered videos of it on the web. I can find transcripts, but they lack the videos and photos mentioned during the interview. Hence, we cannot view the entire interview in the proper context. What we can surmise from the transcripts is that Beck has only been able to rule out FEMA-run concentration camps with gas chambers, as some conspiracies have made claim of.

Besides, anything Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh says I take with a grain of salt. I've heard both make reasonable points, and also make completely outlandish and inane rants which make no sense whatsoever. I've heard a liberal radio show that was the same way, though I don't remember the name of it. Such shows don't get much air time around here. As it is, I only listen to such when someone else has their own radio tuned to it. I never listen to it on my own because I don't want to be another bleating sheep in either of their flocks, liberal or conservative.

Hey I don't really trust Beck either not completely anyway, just given the fact that he's a part of the mainstream media. As a rule I don't trust a good amount of what anything mainstream puts out generally speaking, as there's always some lies mixed in with the truth and Beck is no exception to that.

But this was extremely extremely strange to me, I fully believe someone told him not to run the story as it was. Had he tried, I would bet the farm he may not have had a job. That's what I think happened, it was either their way or the highway.

Oh sure was a story ran on it later? Yeah, and I have seen some of it I believe. But I highly highly doubt it was anything CLOSE to what he was originally going to run.