First of all, I wasn't comparing Islam to Christianity. I was comparing the Spaniards of the sixteenth century to modern Islamic extremists, and I was directing the opinion to the point of view of the Incas and the Mayans.

My comments were about people and what they do.

Saying "Spain killed them for gold isn't even close ..." and "Pure and simple greed. That was it." appears to be a contradiction.

Many historians would disagree with you that Spain's stated purpose was not to conquer the world in the name of Christianity.

Yhey killed them for gold with the blessings of the church.

A collision of beliefs.

Inca and Mayan empires used slaves as money.
Spaniards used gold and jewels for money.

The cultures were bound to clash.

Ok, but your objection was directly speaking to me comparing Islam and Christianity.

I said:

"Christians will accept other people with different faith. Your faith is a matter of personal choice.

Islam will not allow you to have a different faith. There stated goal is global domination. Islam or death."

Your reply saying Incas and Mayans would disagree could only mean this statement is wrong. Since the Spaniards were clearly not Muslim then the statement could only be referring to my statement on Christianity. And since my statement was saying Christians will accept other while Muslims will not, the only conclusion could be that Christians killed others because they did not believe in Christianity.

I get frustrated with the misconception of the Crusades. It is really popular to believe the Catholic church just up and decided to slaughter everyone in Jerusalem because they were not Christian. The church was responding to Jerusalem being assaulted and captured by Muslims. Interesting how way back then Islam was killing infidels. Coincidence???

We are told to fight evil where we find it. The church back then declared what the Muslims were doing to be evil so they fought against it.

Actually that is incorrect.

Islam allows others to practice whatever religion they wish in peace.

Some extreme sects of both religions, Christianity and Islam will not allow for other religions.

Islam is not any more of a warring religion then Christianity.

i guess thats why islam wants to wipe out all the infidels...when was the last time a christian said that?

Okay now it is homework time.

Find the word infidel in the Quaran.

It isn't in there.

Infidel is actually a part of the Jihad of the extremists.

But please do not trust me and do your homework it will help you.

i posted it the other day, in another post to msharmony.. it is there, and now your just talking to be talking... do you ever know what your talking about?

All fools are told that their 'enemy' is 'evil.'


It really scares me when people proclaim that they must fight and destroy "evil" because then they are told who is "evil" and who is not. And they believe anything they are told.



Then, if they don't believe it, the propaganda begins.

Did you know that the Mossad and the CIA dress up like terrorists all the time and commit terrorist acts to blame them on whom ever they want us to believe is evil?

Don't be so gullible.

Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?

By Huda, About.com Guide

Question: Aren't there some verses of the Qur'an that condone "killing the infidel"?
Answer: The Qur'an commands Muslims to stick up for themselves in a defensive battle -- i.e. if an enemy army attacks, then Muslims are to fight against that army until they stop their aggression. All of the verses that speak about fighting/war in the Qur'an are in this context.

There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by critics of Islam discussing "jihadism," or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

"Slay Them" - If They Attack You First
For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

"Fight the Pagans" - If They Break Treaties
A similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.

This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."

Conclusion
Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

LOL funny coming from someone like you...lol I posted it already on here and you obviously didn't post the truth.

Finally! Somebody who takes the time to actually go to the quran to see what it says instead of parroting Glen Beck

Jihadism is the problem and just like radical Christians they can be dangerous.

Most Muslims are not jihaders...lol

I'm not gullible.

I actually agree with the church's assessment after i studied Islam and Muhammad's life.

I never could figure out why the Catholic Church felt the Crusades were justified until after i studied Islam.

I studied Islam to determine why it seemed all the suicide bombers were Muslim. I wanted to know what would motivate someone to blow themselves up in name of their religion.

so learn something before you shoot your mouth off

Al-Baqarah Chapter 2 : Verse 259

Hast thou not heard of him who disputed with Abraham about his Lord, because Allah had given him kingdom? When Abraham said, ‘My Lord is He Who gives life and causes death,’ he said, ‘I also give life and cause death.’ Abraham said, ‘Well, Allah brings the sun from the East; bring it thou from the West.’ Thereupon the infidel was dumbfounded. And Allah guides not the unjust people.

Very true.

you tell me when did you read the quran?

You get an F for this homework

start here
http://islamawakened.org/quran/2/259/default.htm


This is the verse you quoted out of one of the versions of the quaran and on the link I included are all translations of the verses you quoted.

Or [art thou, O man, of the same mind] as he who passed by a town deserted by its people, with its roofs caved in, [and] said, "How could God bring all this back to life after its death?" Thereupon God caused him to be dead for a hundred years; where after He brought him back to life [and] said: "How long hast thou remained thus?" He answered: "I have remained thus a day, or part of a day." Said [God]: "Nay, but thou hast remained thus for a hundred years! But look at thy food and thy drink-untouched is it by the passing of years - and look at thine ***! And [We did all this so that We might make thee a symbol unto men. And look at the bones [of animals and men] - how We put them together and then clothe them with flesh!" And when [all this] became clear to him, he said: "I know [now] that God has the power to will anything!"

This is true.

However, it is also true that Muhammad lead an army into Mecca and everyone either converted to Islam or was slain. Men women and children.

It is also true that Muhammad told his followers it is their duty to kill unbelievers. His second in command went home that evening and killed his best friend and business partner because he was Jewish.

The point being, Muhammad told his followers to kill those that were not Muslims. He lead an army that carried out these orders and he killed unbelievers himself.

The Quaran even tells "believers" as they refer to themselves, how to split up the spoils of war.

The Jihadists are following his teachings and what he had done. They are not radicals. They are simply carrying out their faith.

There is no way anyone can compare that to a radical Christian and say they are the same. The only similarity is they both base their choices on their faith. That is it. everything else is different. Muslims are following their faith when they are "radical" while Christians generally are not. (depends on what you call a radical Christian).

But the biggest difference is, Jesus never told His followers to kill those that don't believe and He never lead an army.

I really don't understand why so many people will defend Muslims that are still today blowing themselves up in name of their religion and at the same time condemning Christians as more dangerous? That just boggles my mind!

http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/self/tafsir-2-258-260/

{258} Did you not see him who disputed with Ibrahim about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim said: "My Lord is He Who gives life and cause to die", he said: "I give life and cause death." Ibrahim said: "So surely Allah brings the sun from the east, then bring it (you) from the west." Thus he who disbelieved was confounded; and Allah does not guide aright the unjust people. {259} Or like him who passed by a town, and it had fallen down upon its roofs; he said: "How will Allah give it life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years, then raised him to life. He said: "How long have you tarried?" He said: "I have tarried a day, or a part of a day. " Said He: "Nay! You have tarried a hundred years; then look at your food and drink - years have not passed over it; and look at your donkey; and that We may make you a sign to men; and look at the bones, how We assemble them together, then clothe them with flesh." So when it became clear to him, he said: "I know that Allah has power over all things." {260} And (remember) when Ibrahim said: "My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead. "He said: "What! and do you not believe?" He said: "Certainly, but that my heart may be at ease. "He said: "Then take four of the birds, then cut them (into pieces), then place on every mountain a part of them, then call them, they will come to you flying; and know that Allah is Mighty, Wise."