If you're tired, you should probably go to bed earlier. It was true patriots complaining that helpe cause the Emancipation Proclamation , It was people dis-satisfied with America that got you the right to vote. It was people who thought that America could do better that helped achieve civil rights legislation. There were plenty of armchair generals screaming "My country, right or wrong", "Love it or Leave it", "I love America just the way it is" during those times, too.

i'm trying to figure what your question is... it doesn't make any sense, if you ever read any of my posts you would already have that answer, and also, i'm trying to figure out what your trying to lure me into here



I am not luring you into anything....

I am merely reflecting back your logic...and asking you to look at your own logic...which will either support or won't, your statements.

Let's agree to this...you believe what you want to, and so will I..But I will stand by my country...RIGHT OR WRONG....WE have always been and We WILL Be again ...the GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH.

I am not luring you into anything....

I am merely reflecting back your logic...and asking you to look at your own logic...which will either support or won't, your statements.


my statements are that we all have a right to voice or opinions, good or bad. if the op is disappointed with the way the country is, he has a right to find a better country to live in, just like vivian has a right to let him know that. just because we agree or disagree we shouldn't be rude to her for saying that, but, it is his right to be rude, whether we like it or not...

It is a little commandant to try to kick folks out of a free country.

Shoot, I would like to move all those who believe that non whites are the problem in this country to another country, preferably one that doesn't have whole lotta whites in it.

Get my drift?


It doesn't make me right even if those I dislike are wrong.

YouR not understanding my point. Perhaps I'm not understanding yours. My point is that complaining about my country's shortcomings IS to stand by her. If I didn't love her, I would do what you would like and say, "To hell with America. Leave her to her own misery. I'm moving to Belize". "Pride" is an in appropriate descriptor. It reflects on you. Not on your country.

but it is still your right to believe what you want to, no matter what we may think of it...

The only one I have the right say "love it or leave it" to is my lover....

Did anyone ready my post?

That sums up what were arguing about here.

Everyone has to right to say whatever they like.

The people that don't like what they have to say have the right to voice that opinion as well.

From "The American President"

"You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours."

So, essentially this whole thread is only proving what free speech is. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to disagree with that opinion. That is freedom. So really, everyone is right.

That still isn't quite right. You have the right to say anything you want to anybody you want at any time you want about anything you want. You (and I) have the right to be rude, disingenuous, deceptive, abrasive, whatever. We do not have the right to say whatever we want and remain immune from push-back from those who also have that right. The only censors that I see on Mingle are the administrator, who won't let us post naughty stuff.

This is hogwash. It is not the Hatfields and McCoys. It is religious
warfare and defense of freedom. Bin Laden was not killed for revenge.
Bin Laden was killed solely to further cripple his genocidal religiously
bigoted and inhumane terrorist organization Al-Qaida.

And the dismantling of such an organization is a worthy, noble
and just cause.



Those who would let Bin Laden live and flourish should live in a
repressive misogynistic society for a while.

You know, Jess642, it seems like you are sitting there passing judgement on others, and you seem bothered when someone says they are proud to be an American.

I too would ask what your point is.

Do you think you are above everyone else? Mightymoe, artio, dragoness and vivian2981, I am sure have all been in many disagreements with others including me on this club, and it seems like you are passing judgement on everyone for who they are and what they say to each other.

Are you?

I believe in celebrating diversity. I think everyone has something to contribute whether I agree with them or not.

You can hold any opinion you want of any individual on earth but I don't think you should apply your opinions to 'Americans in general' referring to them as "you people...." It just seems like you are looking down your nose.

Perhaps I am...perhaps wrapped up in all of it, is trying to understand the common man of the US...the overview....and are you not doing the same with me with your perceptions?


What I asked of mightymoe was why he felt justified in supporting one person's opinion, of if you aren't happy with it...then leave...or kwitchabytching....when he at times has expressed his displeasure.

I'm not bothered by people being proud of their origins...

it's watching the complete condemnation of others that has me trying to figure out what is what.



I am not superior....and like all have my own views and opinions..and get told to butt out as I am not an American and therefore have no validity.

I appreciate that you have little time for my opinions on the boards JB....and understand that it is the differences which show the uniqueness of each other.




I do try to be specific...and also show generalisations...where they are...


You are most certainly entitled to your views of me...and there are times where perhaps I do appear look down my nose at PEOPLE.....irrespective of their country of origin....as I have witnessed you do the same.

we all have, ain't no big deal... part of the disagreement process is learning why we disagree. but i hold no animosity towards you or most of the others on here...

Love your caveat "most."

I meant to add....I try to use YOUR people..YOUR country...etc etc...as a way of acknowledging I am from a different country...and generalising about the WHOLE...

If I have written YOU people, usually I am referring to the posters in the thread....

if I haven't, then I do apologise, it was not my intent at the time of typing..

thats the key word there...lol

That depends on the critique. If you are complaining because you think your country should improve that is one thing. If you are doing it in a disrespectful way and actually bashing your country that is another. Things like calling America Umerika. Not very patriotic to me. I agree with her. If you don't like it feel free to leave. We are not saying you have to leave. You can if you want. We can say we wont miss those people though.

Jesse, everybody on this board knows that you are have the best heart and the strength of your convictions. Your comments seem judgmental at times. That's not a criticism. We all judge. We decide who we want to endear ourselves to, we decide who we don't mind alienating. There's always time to back-track. You may be an Aussie, but in the broader view, we are all Aussie-Americans.

We take these arguments so personally.