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| Topic: The Bible? | |
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And, therein lies the problem of individual interpretation of the Bible. This is why it is important to hold to the teachings of the Church as they include the teachings of Christ that were passed down orally and through Tradition from the time of Christ. The Bible wasn't even written at the time of his life. But, the apostles and many others were there, and he taught them. And, they passed along what they learned from Him. Some things in writing, some things orally.
Either you trust that Jesus established His church and would not allow her to error or you don't. If you don't then you go ahead and believe all the heretical writings disallowed by the church by gnostic writers and others. It's a choice we all have to make. Arguments will continue as long as you are arguing about human interpretation of the Bible passages. As a side note: The catholic church was taken over by Protestants in the 1960's and no longer teaches true Catholic doctrine. It is now become just one more Protestant sect. For the true teachings of the Catholic Church you have to go back to pre-1962. It's a tough road to the Truth. But, everyone is given the graces they need to find it. All you have to do is truly be open to them. |
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Keep in mind that all of this started by merely me mentioning that I like to read the Bible.
What TexasScoundrel is doing is taking one verse and using that as the basis for his argument as to how the Bible does not make sense. This is an old trick used by dissenters. But, here is the thing: in no other form of literature do you do that. Logically speaking, you read the whole passage and then use this as the basis. Plucking out one verse without providing the context does not do anything except make the case that you are not looking at the Bible objectively. Here is an example: "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near. So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." What is Jesus referring to? If you read the parable, you know he is referring to the signs of the end times. Now, some people will say that because we are still here, Jesus' statements were not factual. But, what is ending? At the time, it was not possible to enter heaven because of Adam's transgressions. Jesus was stating that He was there, that they should not be waiting for someone else and instead focus on who He is and what He is saying. So, when you read Jesus' words, you see that he is stating when you see God at hand, do not look away, but rather embrace Him. |
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Yes, that is very true that people who disagree with Christianity will take Bible verses out of context. The religion and teachings have to be taken as a whole.
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Im not sure how you are defining 'biblical scholars' I would guess, being human, that they dont all think the same thing though, and I doubt that we can even presume what MOST of them think but there are several interpretations of what that text means, ,,,,just like most parts of the bible Biblical scholars are people that make their living teaching and writing about the bible. They spent years in school studying the bible under older scholars. They have a PhD, so you refer to them as Doctor. As for them being in agreement, this is no different than Egyptologists being in agreement about the life of King Tut. There may be some argument about the details, but the big picture is clear. When you study the evidence impartially, it's easy to see. If there are other creditable opinions about the quotes I posted, I'd love to read them. Do you have a web site or book I could look into? |
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Keep in mind that all of this started by merely me mentioning that I like to read the Bible. What TexasScoundrel is doing is taking one verse and using that as the basis for his argument as to how the Bible does not make sense. This is an old trick used by dissenters. But, here is the thing: in no other form of literature do you do that. Logically speaking, you read the whole passage and then use this as the basis. Plucking out one verse without providing the context does not do anything except make the case that you are not looking at the Bible objectively. Here is an example: "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near. So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." What is Jesus referring to? If you read the parable, you know he is referring to the signs of the end times. Now, some people will say that because we are still here, Jesus' statements were not factual. But, what is ending? At the time, it was not possible to enter heaven because of Adam's transgressions. Jesus was stating that He was there, that they should not be waiting for someone else and instead focus on who He is and what He is saying. So, when you read Jesus' words, you see that he is stating when you see God at hand, do not look away, but rather embrace Him. One verse? Have you not read anything I've written? What I am saying is that Jesus spent his adult life preaching about a coming apocalypse and that it was coming very soon, within the lifetime of at least some of his followers. That God was going to do away with the kingdoms of man and set up his own kingdom here on earth. That the Son of Man was coming to judge everyone, punish evil and reward good. That his 12 disciples (including Judas) would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel. Jesus says this over and over, a number of times and all you have to do is READ THE BIBLE to know it. Just read the gospels. It's easy! |
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Do you have a web site or book I could look into? If you are seriously interested, you should read The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. There is now a dvd if you prefer to watch it rather than read it. |
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Lee Strobel is not a creditable biblical scholar. He has a degree in law and wrote for the The Chicago Tribune. His Seminary degree is honorary and therefore means nothing.
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I am aware of that. I wasn't trying to find an expert to beat your expert. I was trying to show you a direction to go in. The walk is up to you.
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I prefer to read the ideas of people that have actually studied the subject.
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Would you listen to a Priest that had a PHD in Theology?
That is who you say you listen to. People with PHDs. |
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Im not sure how you are defining 'biblical scholars' I would guess, being human, that they dont all think the same thing though, and I doubt that we can even presume what MOST of them think but there are several interpretations of what that text means, ,,,,just like most parts of the bible Biblical scholars are people that make their living teaching and writing about the bible. They spent years in school studying the bible under older scholars. They have a PhD, so you refer to them as Doctor. As for them being in agreement, this is no different than Egyptologists being in agreement about the life of King Tut. There may be some argument about the details, but the big picture is clear. When you study the evidence impartially, it's easy to see. If there are other creditable opinions about the quotes I posted, I'd love to read them. Do you have a web site or book I could look into? yes, some argument about the DETAILS( like what is meant by that specific scripture) |
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When I first started reading the bible, I coped it big time from friends or family.
I got so tired of people telling me things and trying to change what I believed that i painted my loungeroom wall with 2 foot blue letters saying GOD SAID IT I BELIEVE IT THAT SETTLES IT. I believe that jesus is Gods son, the bible tells me this, it tells me heaps of things and sadly through my life I have seen lots of things taken out of context by highly educated people who took the heart out and tried to turn it into something it wasnt. If you take note all through the bible it is the highly educated who tried to twist Gods words, even against Jesus, Men who where highly trained in religion, but who wouldnt even listen to Gods son. it was because of these highly educated people that Jesus was hung on the cross. Anyway yes i have read the Bible many many times, i have no training, but i definately know that Jesus is not just a prophet, he is the son of God.  If you dont think so , thats cool, its just my belief.
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yes, some argument about the DETAILS( like what is meant by that specific scripture) There is no argument about what Jesus was talking about among the experts. It's only the people that have trouble with what he said that want to argue about it. |
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Would you listen to a Priest that had a PHD in Theology? That is who you say you listen to. People with PHDs. I have a close friend, his father has a PhD and even used to teach at the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary here in Ft. Worth and he's written a book or two. I've discussed the bible with him often. So yes, I am open to learning from people that know what they're talking about. But, when someone starts talking creationism, for example, I know they don't know what they're talking about because evolution isn't argued among the scholars anymore. |
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wow,,,anyway
I would suggest reading about the different schools of thoughts (even amongst biblical 'scholars' also referred to as pastors and professors) starting with Millenialism, Amillenialism, and Postmillenialism along with these differing schools of thought comes a different 'interpretation' of what is meant by 'Kingdom of God' coming with power,,,, |
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Where do I begin with TexasScoundrel? Again, I would like to add that this all stemmed from me merely stating that I like to read the Bible every day.
The more he writes, the more you see the veracity of the Bible. As an example, one claim against the Bible is that the people in the Bible who were against God could not be that stubborn. Then, we read TexasScoundrel's accounts and you can see how stubborn can be. I also love the condescending tone from him. You disagree with me, he states, so therefore you are an idiot. As an example, he writes, "There is no argument about what Jesus was talking about among the experts. It's only the people that have trouble with what he said that want to argue about it." And so, now we have people like him who are the experts, and the rest of us are not? This is, after some of us who are well versed in the Bible, have disputed his claims, time and time again, only to have him crop up the same verses. And nobody here is arguing. We're merely discussing. Another example is when he states that "But, when someone starts talking creationism, for example, I know they don't know what they're talking about because evolution isn't argued among the scholars anymore." Well, I know what I'm talking about and I do believe in Creationism. To state that there is a Creation (us), there is also the one who made us (a Creator). You may disagree with that, but there is validity from this perspective. As you are so well versed in the Bible, and are an expert, would you mind stating other quotes than the three you did about how Jesus' prophecies did not come to pass? Surely, someone as knowledgeable as yourself would have more than three quotes. |
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Where do I begin with TexasScoundrel? Again, I would like to add that this all stemmed from me merely stating that I like to read the Bible every day. The more he writes, the more you see the veracity of the Bible. As an example, one claim against the Bible is that the people in the Bible who were against God could not be that stubborn. Then, we read TexasScoundrel's accounts and you can see how stubborn can be. I also love the condescending tone from him. You disagree with me, he states, so therefore you are an idiot. As an example, he writes, "There is no argument about what Jesus was talking about among the experts. It's only the people that have trouble with what he said that want to argue about it." And so, now we have people like him who are the experts, and the rest of us are not? This is, after some of us who are well versed in the Bible, have disputed his claims, time and time again, only to have him crop up the same verses. And nobody here is arguing. We're merely discussing. Another example is when he states that "But, when someone starts talking creationism, for example, I know they don't know what they're talking about because evolution isn't argued among the scholars anymore." Well, I know what I'm talking about and I do believe in Creationism. To state that there is a Creation (us), there is also the one who made us (a Creator). You may disagree with that, but there is validity from this perspective. As you are so well versed in the Bible, and are an expert, would you mind stating other quotes than the three you did about how Jesus' prophecies did not come to pass? Surely, someone as knowledgeable as yourself would have more than three quotes. I am not an expert, but I have read a few books by people that have made a living from bible study. Yes, I can show you more examples of Jesus saying that kind of thing. Lk.9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." Lk.21:32 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." So, you believe in creationism? Do you also believe in the talking snake from the garden of Eden? Do you believe Jonah lived in a whale? To me all these things seem foolish, like children's stories. Do you see them as actual history? |
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Where do I begin with TexasScoundrel? Again, I would like to add that this all stemmed from me merely stating that I like to read the Bible every day. The more he writes, the more you see the veracity of the Bible. As an example, one claim against the Bible is that the people in the Bible who were against God could not be that stubborn. Then, we read TexasScoundrel's accounts and you can see how stubborn can be. I also love the condescending tone from him. You disagree with me, he states, so therefore you are an idiot. As an example, he writes, "There is no argument about what Jesus was talking about among the experts. It's only the people that have trouble with what he said that want to argue about it." And so, now we have people like him who are the experts, and the rest of us are not? This is, after some of us who are well versed in the Bible, have disputed his claims, time and time again, only to have him crop up the same verses. And nobody here is arguing. We're merely discussing. Another example is when he states that "But, when someone starts talking creationism, for example, I know they don't know what they're talking about because evolution isn't argued among the scholars anymore." Well, I know what I'm talking about and I do believe in Creationism. To state that there is a Creation (us), there is also the one who made us (a Creator). You may disagree with that, but there is validity from this perspective. As you are so well versed in the Bible, and are an expert, would you mind stating other quotes than the three you did about how Jesus' prophecies did not come to pass? Surely, someone as knowledgeable as yourself would have more than three quotes. I am not an expert, but I have read a few books by people that have made a living from bible study. Yes, I can show you more examples of Jesus saying that kind of thing. Lk.9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." Lk.21:32 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." So, you believe in creationism? Do you also believe in the talking snake from the garden of Eden? Do you believe Jonah lived in a whale? To me all these things seem foolish, like children's stories. Do you see them as actual history? I believe what Jesus says, I believe there is a creator, I believe God created Adam and Eve who were tempted by a serpent, I believe Jonah lived in the whale as a precursor to Jesus being risen from the grave after three days |
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Word.
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Word. Huh |
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