It's amazing how a simple thread asking a simple question can explode into a full blown argument.

Ignorance + Bible = Argument!

No problem. Here is what we have:

"If anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time."

Has this not happened? Has not history been filled with false messiahs and prophets?

"At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens."

Has this not happened? Has Jesus not returned after He was crucified? Did he not send his angels for us, and gather Christians from all over the world? Did he not cause Christianity to spread?

I agree.

And for the most part, those that claim the Bible to be false or Jesus to be false won't listen to any argument to the contrary. They just keep raising new objections when they see that they aren't convincing any Christians they are right.

As with Christians, the chances of a non-christian convincing a Christian they are right are a lot less possible than a Christian converting a nonbeliever.

So, I guess the lesson here is: If you don't have faith, don't argue with a Christian. You may get contaminated and start believing in Christ.

There is another thread I posted in where some yahoo is saying Christ is a zombie.

He actually thinks I may agree with him!!

That post is written by funches (the zombie post).

At first, I thought he was asking questions to get answers. After I realized that he is merely trying to same the same old thing and was not even open to a discussion, I stopped replying.

What I do find interesting is how some people who are against the Bible use the same tactics as were done 2,000 years ago. They quote something out of context, or in an incomplete form. Didn't that occur during Jesus' time, as well?

What was especially interesting about TexasScoundrel was that he claimed to read the Bible, and started misquoting passages or quoting only a portion of the passages.

But, here's the funny thing.

If you get that person who is in doubt, who really is asking because they want to know, as opposed to trying to prove you wrong, you do have the makings of a powerful Christian.

What I'm saying isn't controversial. For over a century now, sense the publication of Albert Schweitzer's "The Quest of the Historical Jesus," the majority of scholars in Europe and North America have understood Jesus as a Jewish apocalyptic prophet. This view is taught to students in leading seminaries and divinity schools throughout the country.

Jesus told his followers that the end of the world was coming soon (within his own generation) that God would set up his kingdom here on Earth and that the Son of Man would judge everyone, sending evil doers to hell.

TexasScoundrel writes:

"Jesus told his followers that the end of the world was coming soon (within his own generation) that God would set up his kingdom here on Earth and that the Son of Man would judge everyone, sending evil doers to hell."

Again, much of what you say here is true, but some of what you say is not. Would you care to quote these points from the Bible? If you can't, then you can't say that Jesus made these statements and proclamations.

you got stamina shik,,,lol

msharmony writes:

"you got stamina shik,,,lol"

You know it!!! I have Christ on my side, so who can be against me?

I have quoted them. Go back and read my other posts. I have given you book, chapter and verse. Don't have a bible of your own? Here are links to an online bible.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16%3A28&version=KJV

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%209:1&version=KJV

Are you using the same points you did before? I refuted all of them. See my previous posts.

Do you have anything new?

Mark, chapter 13

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

speaking of could of would of should of


it would seem more clear if he had said ' YOU ' will not pass,,,
if he were indeed talking about the same people he was talking TO

everywhere PRIOR to that sentence he says YE, but there he says this generation,,,just a curious choice,,,


but who are we to decide for Jesus how to speak, I see many possibilities in what he said

1. that the people he was speaking to were the same he was speaking about (in third person)

2. That the people he spoke to DID indeed see those things or are somehow not yet DEAD (by the standards of Jesus)

3. That he was speaking about the generation that would be present when these things happen, that they would not be spared the worst of it ,,,,,but have to live it until the end


4. That he was a false prophet




I am more inclined to believe possibility three, but to each their own

I believe you guys all read the bible and I believe you don't get much out of it.

To get something out of some reading, you have to read the book accurately.

You guys can't read even a simple sentence correctly, you put words into everyone's mouths.

F'rinstnance, the guy whom two or three of you bible thumpers quoted, never had challenged in this thread whether Jesus was a proper prophet or a false prophet.

If you read the original, it says "false profit".

If you bible thumpers don't know that prophet and profit are two separate and distinct, furthermore largely incongruous concepts, then you can read the bible till doomsday come and you still won't know what the heck it actually says.

There are two more very real possibilities:

5. Jesus was a true prophet, but he was a horrible trickster who played practical jokes on people.

6. Jesus was true prophet, but he was either insane amd a pathological liar, or had not realized that the ten commandments apply to gods and prophets the same as to humans. Maybe I am wrong, possible, and the ten commandments do NOT apply to god. After all, he is allowed to kill, and he is not bound to respect his elders (the creator has no elders, by definition).

And a final word (not Jesus):

"This generation" is this generation. If you say Jesus meant "this generation" is that generation, or the one coming in a thousand years, or the ones that died but not in Jesus definition, then that's false of you to say that. Jesus knew the language enough (is he not omnipotent?) to know that "this generation" can't mean any thing else than "this generation" unless specific instructions (lingual, stylistic, referential) are given that by "this generation" he means' aunties' cleaning powder.

Language is a convention, and if someone makes such a huge error in communication, and his interpreters are right, then maybe, and it definitely can be argued, and most certainly with the same assurance as the three bible thumpers say that "this generation" means something else, that the sentence

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

can mean and does mean any of the following:

-US bombers will drop sharp, exploding objects over Lybia. (Son of man, int he clouds, with glory and power.)

- The clocks are set ahead for daylight savings time (no connection on the surface, but Jesus knows he speaks and we believe him; no connection is necessary once one escapes from the rigours of language and consequential understanding of passages)

- Auntie Vera's cookie recepie has too much concrete.

These are only three of the possibly infinite ways to interpret 26.

You see, it works this way: The bible says something. Everyone believes it. It turns out to be total gibberish. Then people start to explain that the bible is not wrong, but they can't explain it without first making everyone accept that the passage is symbolic.

In a large number of cases the passage can only be accepted as symbolic, if we force this on it, since there is no other reason to suspect, other than its (the passage's) inherent impossibility.

In these cases the believers of the bible will have to abandon language, and create associations that are not indicated.

If this is done, then others can do it, too.

So once any interpreter of symbolism goes away from the language, he opens the floodgates of anyone going awAy from the language and use the bible to interpret that the pope is the anti-christ, and baptists and morons are doing the exact opposite of god's will, and they will irrevokably and without question be condemned to go to heaven or hell, we don't know, or else to Pluto or to Plato.

I have read the Bible a few times and like it very much. I read the new testament more frequently.

In this quote Jesus is speaking to the disciples after feeding the multitude.

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

I don't see any way to interpret this other than Jesus saying God will create his kingdom before at least "some" of the disciples die.

It didn't happen. If a prophet says something like that and it doesn't come true within the time frame he gave we must conclude that he was a false prophet.

The only question is, will you allow this to ruin your faith?

Bible scholars interpret "Kingdom" as often meaning the church in the NT. And when the holy spirit descended upon the apostles on Pentecost the church was officially brought to this world and come to power.

And which scholars are these? Where do they teach?

When I read books by biblical scholars they express the views I've posted when discussing the gospels. For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman

Im not sure how you are defining 'biblical scholars'

I would guess, being human, that they dont all think the same thing though, and I doubt that we can even presume what MOST of them think


but there are several interpretations of what that text means, ,,,,just like most parts of the bible

how weak would faith be if one statement or one post in a forum could ruin it? Its an interesting perception, but it doesnt ruin my faith because its not the ONLY perception.