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| Topic: Are Atheists Open for a Chat? | |
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Cowboy wrote: So you decide what laws you abide? If you believe you do not have to abide by one of the laws of the land will you not be punished? I'm afraid to tell you, you will be punished for committing this crime just as a crime with God. One doesn't get to pick and choose what laws he/she abides by or not. Your analogy fails miserably. All you're doing here is reducing God to be as inept as mortal men again be demanding that God's legal system would need to be just as blind and inept as the legal systems of mortal men. Receiving some form of punishment for an action one takes is taking responsibility for that action they did. Preachers aren't there to "intimidate, scare, or anything of such". They are there to tell us the consequences of certain actions. It's not a scare tactic, it is enlightening another. Preacher are nothing more than people who have fallen for the fear tactics of the ancient Hebrews. They are so petrified with fear of "disobeying" the demands of the ancient Hebrews that this is all they can think about anymore. And God isn't out to get us. God offers forgiveness for our trespasses. Out of love he knows we will make mistakes and offers forgiveness for doing as such. If you truly believe that God is so loving and forgiving, then why are you so worried about the fate of other people? Don't you trust God to be fair and just? Your analogy fails miserably. All you're doing here is reducing God to be as inept as mortal men again be demanding that God's legal system would need to be just as blind and inept as the legal systems of mortal men. Laws are laws my friend. And no the laws of God are not as blind and inept as the legal system. If they were blind, they would not be apparent. God has specifically told us what laws he holds, thus they are not blind they are spoken. Preacher are nothing more than people who have fallen for the fear tactics of the ancient Hebrews. They are so petrified with fear of "disobeying" the demands of the ancient Hebrews that this is all they can think about anymore. You must be a fearful person, for you always speak of fear and what you think other people have a fear of. No one has fallen to the fear of anything, there is nothing to fear. I do not fear God, nor does anyone else I know of. I love God. I and the others obey out of love, not fear. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 03/17/11 11:27 AM
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Preachers aren't there to "intimidate, scare, or anything of such". They are there to tell us the consequences of certain actions. It's not a scare tactic, it is enlightening another. I would like to comment further about this. Without the element of fear, a preacher has little power over his flock. I once heard a preacher complain about a youth who was wearing a T-shirt that said: "NO FEAR." He knew if people had no fear, then he had no power over them. The next time you go to church, bring a notepad. Jot down every time your preacher attempts to instill the fear of god into his congregation. |
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What I do fear, is the consequences of my actions because I know I can't talk my way out of them and there is no savior waiting to catch me if I jump off of a cliff. If I load a gun and start shooting people from a rooftop, I know what the consequences of something like that will be, and so do most people. It's not going to end well. Fear of consequences will prevent people from doing stupid things. |
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Preachers aren't there to "intimidate, scare, or anything of such". They are there to tell us the consequences of certain actions. It's not a scare tactic, it is enlightening another. I would like to comment further about this. Without the element of fear, a preacher has little power over his flock. I once heard a preacher complain about a youth who was wearing a T-shirt that said: "NO FEAR." The next time you go to church, bring a notepad. Jot down every time your preacher attempts to instill the fear of god into his congregation. Preachers don't have "flocks". And no the preacher(s) have absolutely no power over the one's they are preaching to. Preachers are the same as you and I. They aren't on a pedestal, they aren't greater. They just have been called to spread the word of God. |
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No one is punished for not believing in the "writings of the ancient hebrews". People are punished for their disobedience to God. It's not revenge, it's punishment for disobedience. One has an entire life time to make the choice, so it's obviously not unfair. If one never had the chance to make a choice, they will not be punished for being disobedient, for they weren't, they just had never heard. And would not be their fault. If people aren't punished for not believing in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews", then what exactly is YOUR PROBLEM?  That's basically all we're telling you. We don't believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews". And that includes the idea that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of God. If you're saying that we don't need to believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews", then you're saying that it's also unimportant to believe in Jesus. Because that's the only place in all of history where he was ever mentioned. At least in terms of claiming that he was the sacrificial lamb of God, etc. So all we're doing is refusing to believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews". And you just now said that no one will be punished for this! Ironically even these scriptures have Jesus agreeing with you. According to the scriptures even he said that he would not judge anyone for not believing in him or in his words. This runs in direct conflict with the whole Christian notion that the only way to God is by accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior. So all you're telling us here is that Christian proselytizing and evangelism is all wrong. |
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No one is punished for not believing in the "writings of the ancient hebrews". People are punished for their disobedience to God. It's not revenge, it's punishment for disobedience. One has an entire life time to make the choice, so it's obviously not unfair. If one never had the chance to make a choice, they will not be punished for being disobedient, for they weren't, they just had never heard. And would not be their fault. If people aren't punished for not believing in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews", then what exactly is YOUR PROBLEM? That's basically all we're telling you. We don't believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews". And that includes the idea that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of God. If you're saying that we don't need to believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews", then you're saying that it's also unimportant to believe in Jesus. Because that's the only place in all of history where he was ever mentioned. At least in terms of claiming that he was the sacrificial lamb of God, etc. So all we're doing is refusing to believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews". And you just now said that no one will be punished for this! Ironically even these scriptures have Jesus agreeing with you. According to the scriptures even he said that he would not judge anyone for not believing in him or in his words. This runs in direct conflict with the whole Christian notion that the only way to God is by accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior. So all you're telling us here is that Christian proselytizing and evangelism is all wrong. John 3:18 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. |
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No one is punished for not believing in the "writings of the ancient hebrews". People are punished for their disobedience to God. It's not revenge, it's punishment for disobedience. One has an entire life time to make the choice, so it's obviously not unfair. If one never had the chance to make a choice, they will not be punished for being disobedient, for they weren't, they just had never heard. And would not be their fault. If people aren't punished for not believing in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews", then what exactly is YOUR PROBLEM? That's basically all we're telling you. We don't believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews". And that includes the idea that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of God. If you're saying that we don't need to believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews", then you're saying that it's also unimportant to believe in Jesus. Because that's the only place in all of history where he was ever mentioned. At least in terms of claiming that he was the sacrificial lamb of God, etc. So all we're doing is refusing to believe in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews". And you just now said that no one will be punished for this! Ironically even these scriptures have Jesus agreeing with you. According to the scriptures even he said that he would not judge anyone for not believing in him or in his words. This runs in direct conflict with the whole Christian notion that the only way to God is by accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior. So all you're telling us here is that Christian proselytizing and evangelism is all wrong. John 3:18 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 12:47 47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. |
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Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
Is it possible, that Jesus was a SAVIOR, and that his purpose was indeed NOT TO JUDGE,, but that it is also true that one can be 'saved' by believing in him and not 'saved' if they are not born of the spirit? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 03/17/11 11:55 AM
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Preachers aren't there to "intimidate, scare, or anything of such". They are there to tell us the consequences of certain actions. It's not a scare tactic, it is enlightening another. I would like to comment further about this. Without the element of fear, a preacher has little power over his flock. I once heard a preacher complain about a youth who was wearing a T-shirt that said: "NO FEAR." The next time you go to church, bring a notepad. Jot down every time your preacher attempts to instill the fear of god into his congregation. Preachers don't have "flocks". And no the preacher(s) have absolutely no power over the one's they are preaching to. Preachers are the same as you and I. They aren't on a pedestal, they aren't greater. They just have been called to spread the word of God. Tell that to the Preacher of the Assembly of God Church in my town. He called his congregation "sheep." He called them his "flock" At least the one time I attended he did. I never went back. I know they are the same as everyone else. Sometimes THEY DON'T thing so. They expect to be treated 'special' as if God talks only to them. At least some of them do. They have giant egos even to think they know more about god than I do.  |
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Preachers aren't there to "intimidate, scare, or anything of such". They are there to tell us the consequences of certain actions. It's not a scare tactic, it is enlightening another. I would like to comment further about this. Without the element of fear, a preacher has little power over his flock. I once heard a preacher complain about a youth who was wearing a T-shirt that said: "NO FEAR." The next time you go to church, bring a notepad. Jot down every time your preacher attempts to instill the fear of god into his congregation. Preachers don't have "flocks". And no the preacher(s) have absolutely no power over the one's they are preaching to. Preachers are the same as you and I. They aren't on a pedestal, they aren't greater. They just have been called to spread the word of God. Tell that to the Preacher of the Assembly of God Church in my town. He called his congregation "sheep." He called them his "flock" At least the one time I attended he did. I never went back. I know they are the same as everyone else. Sometimes THEY DON'T thing so. They expect to be treated 'special' as if God talks only to them. At least some of them do. They have giant egos even to think they know more about god than I do. what cowboy posted is what preachers are SUPPOSED to do,, there are no absolutes in this mortal world and being human, there are no doubt preachers who dont do what they are 'supposed' to,,,but that is far from 'ALL that preachers are',,,, |
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There are all kinds of ministries. They don't have to be sanctioned by a church.
A great ministry is feeding the hungry, or helping the homeless. My niece and her husband would collect winter coats and leave them on a bridge where homeless people slept under. They would be snatched up real fast. Help people to live their lives. They aren't going to think about their souls when they can barely survive in the cold with no food. Teach people by example, don't preach. |
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Preachers aren't there to "intimidate, scare, or anything of such". They are there to tell us the consequences of certain actions. It's not a scare tactic, it is enlightening another. I would like to comment further about this. Without the element of fear, a preacher has little power over his flock. I once heard a preacher complain about a youth who was wearing a T-shirt that said: "NO FEAR." The next time you go to church, bring a notepad. Jot down every time your preacher attempts to instill the fear of god into his congregation. Preachers don't have "flocks". And no the preacher(s) have absolutely no power over the one's they are preaching to. Preachers are the same as you and I. They aren't on a pedestal, they aren't greater. They just have been called to spread the word of God. Tell that to the Preacher of the Assembly of God Church in my town. He called his congregation "sheep." He called them his "flock" At least the one time I attended he did. I never went back. I know they are the same as everyone else. Sometimes THEY DON'T thing so. They expect to be treated 'special' as if God talks only to them. At least some of them do. They have giant egos even to think they know more about god than I do. I'm sorry to hear you have come across such unfortunate happenings. But again no preachers, priests, or any other label one wishes to take does NOT make them greater, more important, closer to God, or anything of such then another. Preachers are no greater then you and I, only difference is they have been called to spread the word. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Thu 03/17/11 12:00 PM
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Cowboy wrote: Laws are laws my friend. And no the laws of God are not as blind and inept as the legal system. If they were blind, they would not be apparent. God has specifically told us what laws he holds, thus they are not blind they are spoken. Well if you're referring to the laws that were written in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews" then you're contradicting your previous stance on that. Besides, how many times have I told you that as far as I can see Jesus taught the very same things as Buddha. It would be impossible to follow the philosophy of Buddha and not simultaneously satisfy everything that Jesus had asked people to do. So who are you to suggest that just because a person doesn't believe in Jesus they would necessarily be breaking his "Laws" anyway? If you follow the letter of the law by pure accident, are you being "obedient"? I never go through red lights because I don't want to have an accident, not because I feel a need to obey any laws. IMHO, this whole obsession and paranoia concerning a need to obey God is misplaced my friend. It's kind of like if your father tells you do look both ways before you cross the street. Do you do that out of obedience? Or do you do it because you simply recognize the wisdom of his advice? This whole idea that you need to live your entire life out from a perspective of a dire need to obey lest you be punished for disobedience is simply an unhealthy mental paranoia, IMHO. Preacher are nothing more than people who have fallen for the fear tactics of the ancient Hebrews. They are so petrified with fear of "disobeying" the demands of the ancient Hebrews that this is all they can think about anymore. You must be a fearful person, for you always speak of fear and what you think other people have a fear of. No one has fallen to the fear of anything, there is nothing to fear. I do not fear God, nor does anyone else I know of. I love God. I and the others obey out of love, not fear. Well, you seem to have an extreme fear that innocent sincere people are going to be condemned if you don't preach to them the content of the "writings of the ancient Hebrews" and convince them to accept those writings as the only true "Word of God". I have no such fears. I believe that if there exists a supreme being it's going to truly be righteous and just. In fact, if I'm not going to believe that then I may as well turn to atheism. Because if our creator is going to be as demonic as you demand then we're be far worse off than the atheists. In fact, if non-belief, does not constitute "disobedience" then no atheist would ever be sent to any place of everlasting punishment. The atheists must evidently get what they believer. When they die they must simply cease to exist. Maybe the everlasting punishment would only be for people who actually believe "writings of the ancient Hebrews" and refuse to do as they say. That makes a little more sense. But ironically that would also make atheism true for all atheists. So the atheists can be guaranteed that they are right even if a God actually exists. Because for them, there would be no God for all intents and purposes. That opens the door to many possibilities. Perhaps all religions are true, and whatever a person believes will become their fate. If that's the case then I'll end up in a place of paradise with Jesus, Buddha, a Moon Goddess, a Sun God, Magicians, Faeries and many other really cool beings. Wow, what a great thought! I can hardly wait to die now!  |
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what cowboy posted is what preachers are SUPPOSED to do,, there are no absolutes in this mortal world and being human, there are no doubt preachers who dont do what they are 'supposed' to,,,but that is far from 'ALL that preachers are',,,, Well this preacher got his ideas from THE BIBLE as all preachers do. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 03/17/11 12:05 PM
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I'm sorry to hear you have come across such unfortunate happenings. But again no preachers, priests, or any other label one wishes to take does NOT make them greater, more important, closer to God, or anything of such then another. Preachers are no greater then you and I, only difference is they have been called to spread the word. That is the claim they make. That they "have been called." In other words... God speaks to them. God called them. Bunch of crap. They can't even take responsibility for making their own decision to preach. They say "they have been called.." bull crap. They decided. They are no different from you or me. They decided. They were not "called" by god or anybody. |
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Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5) Is it possible, that Jesus was a SAVIOR, and that his purpose was indeed NOT TO JUDGE,, but that it is also true that one can be 'saved' by believing in him and not 'saved' if they are not born of the spirit? Jesus was the savior, whoever believes in him shall have eternal life and shall not perish. But with believing in one as your lord, one would indeed be obedient to their lord. So with accepting Jesus as your lord, you will obey his commandments. Once one accepts Jesus into their heart, they will become a different person. They will not wish to do the sinful/evil things they once did. They will not find enjoyment in adultry sex, drugs, drinking to huge excess, and much more sinful disgusting things. |
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Cowboy wrote: Laws are laws my friend. And no the laws of God are not as blind and inept as the legal system. If they were blind, they would not be apparent. God has specifically told us what laws he holds, thus they are not blind they are spoken. Well if you're referring to the laws that were written in the "writings of the ancient Hebrews" then you're contradicting your previous stance on that. Besides, how many times have I told you that as far as I can see Jesus taught the very same things as Buddha. It would be impossible to follow the philosophy of Buddha and not simultaneously satisfy everything that Jesus had asked people to do. So who are you to suggest that just because a person doesn't believe in Jesus they would necessarily be breaking his "Laws" anyway? If you follow the letter of the law by pure accident, are you being "obedient"? I never go through red lights because I don't want to have an accident, not because I feel a need to obey any laws. IMHO, this whole obsession and paranoia concerning a need to obey God is misplaced my friend. It's kind of like if your father tells you do look both ways before you cross the street. Do you do that out of obedience? Or do you do it because you simply recognize the wisdom of his advice? This whole idea that you need to live your entire life out from a perspective of a dire need to obey lest you be punished for disobedience is simply an unhealthy mental paranoia, IMHO. Preacher are nothing more than people who have fallen for the fear tactics of the ancient Hebrews. They are so petrified with fear of "disobeying" the demands of the ancient Hebrews that this is all they can think about anymore. You must be a fearful person, for you always speak of fear and what you think other people have a fear of. No one has fallen to the fear of anything, there is nothing to fear. I do not fear God, nor does anyone else I know of. I love God. I and the others obey out of love, not fear. Well, you seem to have an extreme fear that innocent sincere people are going to be condemned if you don't preach to them the content of the "writings of the ancient Hebrews" and convince them to accept those writings as the only true "Word of God". I have no such fears. I believe that if there exists a supreme being it's going to truly be righteous and just. In fact, if I'm not going to believe that then I may as well turn to atheism. Because if our creator is going to be as demonic as you demand then we're be far worse off than the atheists. In fact, if non-belief, does not constitute "disobedience" then no atheist would ever be sent to any place of everlasting punishment. The atheists must evidently get what they believer. When they die they must simply cease to exist. Maybe the everlasting punishment would only be for people who actually believe "writings of the ancient Hebrews" and refuse to do as they say. That makes a little more sense. But ironically that would also make atheism true for all atheists. So the atheists can be guaranteed that they are right even if a God actually exists. Because for them, there would be no God for all intents and purposes. That opens the door to many possibilities. Perhaps all religions are true, and whatever a person believes will become their fate. If that's the case then I'll end up in a place of paradise with Jesus, Buddha, a Moon Goddess, a Sun God, Magicians, Faeries and many other really cool beings. Wow, what a great thought! I can hardly wait to die now! So who are you to suggest that just because a person doesn't believe in Jesus they would necessarily be breaking his "Laws" anyway? John 14:6 (King James Version) 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. In fact, if non-belief, does not constitute "disobedience" then no atheist would ever be sent to any place of everlasting punishment. The atheists must evidently get what they believer. When they die they must simply cease to exist. Maybe the everlasting punishment would only be for people who actually believe "writings of the ancient Hebrews" and refuse to do as they say. Not ment to be insulting, but how you speak is when a child gets scared they close their eyes. A I can't see you, you can't see me form of way. Just because one doesn't believe in something doesn't make it so. None belief is disobedience. God is to be worshiped and praised in all his greatness. None belief is the greatest of disobedience. One has grace with God if they have no heard of this and have not had the chance to make a choice. But if one is confronted to make a choice, that all changes. They have made a conscience thought to not believe. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 03/17/11 12:14 PM
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Cowboy said: Once one accepts Jesus into their heart, they will become a different person. They will not wish to do the sinful/evil things they once did. They will not find enjoyment in adultry sex, drugs, drinking to huge excess, and much more sinful disgusting things. I see. I must have accepted Jesus into my heart long ago then, because I don't find any enjoyment in those things, or any so called "sinful" thing. I just don't call it "Jesus." I call it "Love." Love, kindness, compassion, common sense, decency, morals etc. |
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I'm sorry to hear you have come across such unfortunate happenings. But again no preachers, priests, or any other label one wishes to take does NOT make them greater, more important, closer to God, or anything of such then another. Preachers are no greater then you and I, only difference is they have been called to spread the word. That is the claim they make. That they "have been called." In other words... God speaks to them. God called them. Bunch of crap. They can't even take responsibility for making their own decision to preach. They say "they have been called.." bull crap. They decided. They are no different from you or me. They decided. They were not "called" by god or anybody. And you know this exactly how? |
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what cowboy posted is what preachers are SUPPOSED to do,, there are no absolutes in this mortal world and being human, there are no doubt preachers who dont do what they are 'supposed' to,,,but that is far from 'ALL that preachers are',,,, Well this preacher got his ideas from THE BIBLE as all preachers do. yes, and many killers have gotten ideas from rock songs and books, but that doesnt mean it is the songs fault or the book, it means a sick mind happened to have a resource that made it sicker, the same resource that ENRICHES most others who use it,,, |
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