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| Topic: Are Atheists Open for a Chat? | |
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki It is easy to be christ-like. Everyone is christ like. It is in fact impossible to not be like christ. You see, god created man in His own image. Christ is god. So if you are a man, you are ab ovo and pro quid isqua tepse a man, so you are the image of god, and therefore you are the image of christ, and it is impossible to be the image of christ and not be christ like. You can say that too to people who ask you what's your secret. There is no secret. There is only ignorance. Two-way ignorance, peppered with some inconclusional logicless lazy thinking. my secret is my secret, if someone sees in me something they admire, to merely tell them they are already like me is pretty preposterous.. obviously there is SOMETHING about me that they DONT HAVE, , cant find, or dont know how to achieve like my example of a jogger , If I ask them the secret to having such strong legs and they tell me they run everyday, that is THEIR secret, it doesnt mean that we are not both created by God, it just means that although we are created we have things that are DIFFERENT and Christ was DIFFERENT from us , in his creation, and his life with temptation but no sin, christ like is a description that matters completely on what one perceives christ to have been like to me, christ was not selfish or a female or even born of a male and female, he did no harm, he forgave,,,,these are CHRIST LIKE attributes if a man does and tries to do no good for anyone but himself, how is that man LIKE christ,, besides in his physical appearance if a man hates God, how is that man like Christ, who lived through and because of God Even Jesus testified 'Do you understand what I was doing? You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and you are right, because that's what I am. And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other's feet' even while having him be a part of us, we can be MORE like him and LEARN from him |
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Edited by
wux
on
Wed 03/16/11 12:26 AM
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki It is easy to be christ-like. Everyone is christ like. It is in fact impossible to not be like christ. You see, god created man in His own image. Christ is god. So if you are a man, you are ab ovo and pro quid isqua tepse a man, so you are the image of god, and therefore you are the image of christ, and it is impossible to be the image of christ and not be christ like. You can say that too to people who ask you what's your secret. There is no secret. There is only ignorance. Two-way ignorance, peppered with some inconclusional logicless lazy thinking. my secret is my secret, if someone sees in me something they admire, to merely tell them they are already like me is pretty preposterous.. obviously there is SOMETHING about me that they DONT HAVE, , cant find, or dont know how to achieve like my example of a jogger , If I ask them the secret to having such strong legs and they tell me they run everyday, that is THEIR secret, it doesnt mean that we are not both created by God, it just means that although we are created we have things that are DIFFERENT and Christ was DIFFERENT from us , in his creation, and his life with temptation but no sin, christ like is a description that matters completely on what one perceives christ to have been like to me, christ was not selfish or a female or even born of a male and female, he did no harm, he forgave,,,,these are CHRIST LIKE attributes if a man does and tries to do no good for anyone but himself, how is that man LIKE christ,, besides in his physical appearance if a man hates God, how is that man like Christ, who lived through and because of God Even Jesus testified 'Do you understand what I was doing? You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and you are right, because that's what I am. And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other's feet' even while having him be a part of us, we can be MORE like him and LEARN from him Your points are excellent, I can't argue against them. But your raising your points is not a devastating blow to my point. I did not say "God created man in His own image." I just repeated it. Your so vehemently and successfully destroying that point is not a destroying of my point. I did not say "Christ is God." Your vehement and successful destroying of the chain of logical steps and equivalencies, your denying their valid truth only destroyed and denied what's in the Bible. These are all teachings by the Lord and His prophets. You irrefutably rendered these statements nonsensical, and I can't argue with that. This just goes to show that logic should not be mixed with religion. Feelings can, faith can, even hatred and murderous intentions smoothly and seamlessly mix with religion, but logic does not, never has, never will. I am not defending logic, or decrying faith. I am not taking sides here. (Although in my heart I am devoted to logic, reason and the mind, and God is not my friend, even if he exists, never will be, for He can only gain power by lies, deceit, and forcing people to accept logical impossibities.) I just state that the two, namely logic and the Christian dogma, are irrevokably incompatible with each other. |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 03/16/11 12:35 AM
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki It is easy to be christ-like. Everyone is christ like. It is in fact impossible to not be like christ. You see, god created man in His own image. Christ is god. So if you are a man, you are ab ovo and pro quid isqua tepse a man, so you are the image of god, and therefore you are the image of christ, and it is impossible to be the image of christ and not be christ like. You can say that too to people who ask you what's your secret. There is no secret. There is only ignorance. Two-way ignorance, peppered with some inconclusional logicless lazy thinking. my secret is my secret, if someone sees in me something they admire, to merely tell them they are already like me is pretty preposterous.. obviously there is SOMETHING about me that they DONT HAVE, , cant find, or dont know how to achieve like my example of a jogger , If I ask them the secret to having such strong legs and they tell me they run everyday, that is THEIR secret, it doesnt mean that we are not both created by God, it just means that although we are created we have things that are DIFFERENT and Christ was DIFFERENT from us , in his creation, and his life with temptation but no sin, christ like is a description that matters completely on what one perceives christ to have been like to me, christ was not selfish or a female or even born of a male and female, he did no harm, he forgave,,,,these are CHRIST LIKE attributes if a man does and tries to do no good for anyone but himself, how is that man LIKE christ,, besides in his physical appearance if a man hates God, how is that man like Christ, who lived through and because of God Even Jesus testified 'Do you understand what I was doing? You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and you are right, because that's what I am. And since I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other's feet' even while having him be a part of us, we can be MORE like him and LEARN from him Your points are excellent, I can't argue against them. But your raising your points is not a devastating blow to my point. I did not say "God created man in His own image." I just repeated it. Your so vehemently and successfully destroying that point is not a destroying of my point. I did not say "Christ is God." Your vehement and successful destroying of the chain of logical steps and equivalencies, your denying their valid truth only destroyed and denied what's in the Bible. These are all teachings by the Lord and His prophets. You irrefutably rendered these statements nonsensical, and I can't argue with that. This just goes to show that logic should not be mixed with religion. Feelings can, faith can, even hatred and murderous intentions smoothly and seamlessly mix with religion, but logic does not, never has, never will. I am not defending logic, or decrying faith. I am not taking sides here. (Although in my heart I am devoted to logic, reason and the mind, and God is not my friend, even if he exists, never will be, for He can only gain power by lies, deceit, and forcing people to accept logical impossibities.) I just state that the two, namely logic and the Christian dogma, are irrevokably incompatible with each other. I disagree that I destroyed anything. I vehemently disagree that logic and christianity are not compatible. My moms friends tell me I am the spitting image of my mom, they have my whole life. Of course I am created in her image because I came THROUGH her and share her DNA. I am likewise created in the image of my ancestors and of God. There is nothing illogical about it unless one subscribes to only one definition of 'image', namely , being IDENTICAL. which is not the only definition I am aware of, being a lover of the english language and FAIRLy logical. |
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Edited by
wux
on
Wed 03/16/11 12:47 AM
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Hello all! Shiki here! OK, I joke about a lot of things. Because after all, laughter is good for the soul, and when a woman laughs, the big boobies bounce more, which is a win-win situation. However, one thing is not a laughing matter, and it is those people who do not believe in God. Now, I am not one of these blind believers, but rather someone who believes that (a) God exists; and (b) He grades on a HUGE curve. Here's my question. Whenever I speak with atheists, they seem to be very angry, and rather insulting. So, I was wondering if this might be a great place to have an open discussion about God, where we are not insulting one another, but simply discussing our respective viewpoints. Atheists, what say you? I am an atheist. What say I? Talking about God is not something I do. Such a thing as God does not exist -- what else more can be said, discussed, argued about an entity which does not even exist? I like to talk about God that is the concept in the Abrahamic faiths. I like to talk about God and the Scriptures, and point out to religious people the inherent logical contradictions, the powerful logical proofs that the bible can't be right at all if taken seriously. It is not God or the Christian God I attack. It does not exist, period. It is the ridiculous, imbecilical, infantile way in which the bible explains the universe, including its god in it, that I like to talk about. If that makes me seem angry, it's your perception. You like Christ, the bible, God, so when I prove one or the other wrong, you feel insulted, violated, and I seem vicious and angry to you. I get angry, yes, but my anger comes from proving to Christians that one or the other things they believe in is in direct contradiction to another few things that they believe in, AND then these christians don't accept my truth. I get angry when I find myself up against stubborn obstination. That angers me. Like above. God created man in God's image. How can a man be angry at god? If he is created in His image? This is where it's at. You get angry at me for showing you that the elements and facts in the above paragraphs are all parts of your faith, they are in the scriptures, and then I get called an idiot for pointing these out. Then I get angry, yes, because the judge, my opponent in the debate who judges my argument, and decides whether it is valid or not, comes down with the verdict that I am wrong. I am not wrong. I am just wrongfully judged wrong for the things I say. The things I quote are from the bible, so why blame me for the stupid, inconsistent, logically ill-constructed tenets of the bible? Of course I get angry. I go to the length of showing how stupid this is, this bible, and then you still don't accept my statements. Or, like in the above few posts, the person herself proves to herself how wrong she is in continuing to believe in the words of the bible, I had no part of building that proof, and yet she is angry at me for what she said and proved!!!! This... this is grossly unfair. I get to be denigrated to be a whipping boy for the wrongdoings of the bible. I get punished for the stupidity of your alleged god. And then at the end you say "you atheists are angry, let's talk peacefully now about God, shall we?" Well. I won't swear now, because that's against the rules of the user agreement. But I am mad as hell for the stupidity of the Christians who commit their own logical suicide and blame me for it. |
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Cowboy wrote: No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. So? That's all the more reason not to bother with "Christianity" at all. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. In short, Jesus himself does not support "Christianity" and really has nothing at all to do with it. Christianity is just the religion that stole his namesake and acts like they have the copyright on him. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. I totally accept Jesus and view him as my brother. As far as I'm concerned that's precisely what he taught. "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jesus is referring to mortal men as his "brethren", not as his children! By the way, when I looked that up I found the following verse too: Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) So you better think twice about the concept an eternal hell for humans if you're taking these scriptures seriously, and you claim to TRUST the words that these scripture assign to Jesus as verbatim quotes. I personally don't buy into the scriptures on a verbatim level. I simply don't believe in a God who would create souls knowing that the vast majority of them would be cast into a place of eternal punishment. And clearly these gospels also have Jesus claiming that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of heaven, thus the vast majority of souls would necessarily end up in an eternal hell of "Everlasting Punishment" as these gospels claim that Jesus himself promises. From my personal perspective there would be nothing "righteous" about a creator who is attempting to raise a few obedient slaves at the cost of casting the vast majority of "failures" into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". What would be the point to that? It couldn't be a 'lesson' since there's no end to it. So the punished souls would never benefit from the so-called 'lesson'. Neither would God ever benefit from such a state of affairs unless God is some sort of sadist who gets his jollies off knowing that people are suffering eternally for refusing to be his obedient slaves. There is something truly demonic about this whole story.  The vast majority of human souls go to hell?  A place of "Everlasting Punishment" according to Jesus himself? That's the "Good News" of Christianity?  Somethings is grossly wrong here. An atheistic reality would be far better than this picture. These scriptures cannot be true verbatim. Unless the creator of all mankind is himself a insane sadist. There would be no point in casting unwanted failures into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". If they aren't interested in serving this "God" then just let them die a spiritual death. Why cast them into "Everlasting Punishment". Either these scriptures contain gross errors (or outright lies), or our creator is an insane sadist. Like I say, an atheistic reality would be better than the latter. |
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Hello all! Shiki here! OK, I joke about a lot of things. Because after all, laughter is good for the soul, and when a woman laughs, the big boobies bounce more, which is a win-win situation. However, one thing is not a laughing matter, and it is those people who do not believe in God. Now, I am not one of these blind believers, but rather someone who believes that (a) God exists; and (b) He grades on a HUGE curve. Here's my question. Whenever I speak with atheists, they seem to be very angry, and rather insulting. So, I was wondering if this might be a great place to have an open discussion about God, where we are not insulting one another, but simply discussing our respective viewpoints. Atheists, what say you? I am an atheist. What say I? Talking about God is not something I do. Such a thing as God does not exist -- what else more can be said, discussed, argued about an entity which does not even exist? I like to talk about God that is the concept in the Abrahamic faiths. I like to talk about God and the Scriptures, and point out to religious people the inherent logical contradictions, the powerful logical proofs that the bible can't be right at all if taken seriously. It is not God or the Christian God I attack. It does not exist, period. It is the ridiculous, imbecilical, infantile way in which the bible explains the universe, including its god in it, that I like to talk about. If that makes me seem angry, it's your perception. You like Christ, the bible, God, so when I prove one or the other wrong, you feel insulted, violated, and I seem vicious and angry to you. I get angry, yes, but my anger comes from proving to Christians that one or the other things they believe in is in direct contradiction to another few things that they believe in, AND then these christians don't accept my truth. I get angry when I find myself up against stubborn obstination. That angers me. Like above. God created man in God's image. How can a man be angry at god? If he is created in His image? This is where it's at. You get angry at me for showing you that the elements and facts in the above paragraphs are all parts of your faith, they are in the scriptures, and then I get called an idiot for pointing these out. Then I get angry, yes, because the judge, my opponent in the debate who judges my argument, and decides whether it is valid or not, comes down with the verdict that I am wrong. I am not wrong. I am just wrongfully judged wrong for the things I say. The things I quote are from the bible, so why blame me for the stupid, inconsistent, logically ill-constructed tenets of the bible? Of course I get angry. I go to the length of showing how stupid this is, this bible, and then you still don't accept my statements. Or, like in the above few posts, the person herself proves to herself how wrong she is in continuing to believe in the words of the bible, I had no part of building that proof, and yet she is angry at me for what she said and proved!!!! This... this is grossly unfair. I get to be denigrated to be a whipping boy for the wrongdoings of the bible. I get punished for the stupidity of your alleged god. And then at the end you say "you atheists are angry, let's talk peacefully now about God, shall we?" Well. I won't swear now, because that's against the rules of the user agreement. But I am mad as hell for the stupidity of the Christians who commit their own logical suicide and blame me for it. Truly.  And besides, often times the Christians are either in grave ignorance of the very doctrine upon which their religion is built, or they are in extremely denial, or they prefer to outright lie. In an effort to make the biblical God appear to be sane and righteous, many New Age Christians are in denial of the concept of hell. They prefer to try to "pretty God up" a bit by claiming that hell is just a misunderstood concept and that God would never do anything so mean. So their claim is that you simply either go to heaven, or you perish and have an atheistic death. But that's not what these scriptures state. I has this argument many times with various so-called "Christians" and they were in denial of this. And even though I found a few references, I couldn't find a precisely verbatim statement where Jesus himself supposedly speaks of an eternal hell, or eternal punishment. But fortunately tonight I found the Holy Grail of Hell. The following are words attributed directly to Jesus and Jesus is speaking about humans either going to life eternal, or "Everlasting Punishment". Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." So there we have it in Jesus' own words according to the gospels. I will not tolerate anymore so-called "Christians" claiming that there is not such thing as "Everlasting Punishment" for those who do not make it to "life eternal". They are themselves refusing to accept the very doctrine that they claim to be pushing. If Jesus speaks for God, and the gospels can be trusted to have the words of Jesus correct in verbatim detail, then "Everlasting Punishment" is a given for those who do not receive the gift of "life eternal", and it cannot be shoved under the carpet anymore by New Age Designer Christians. They're just going to need to accept that their God is one sick puppy. And they can't pretend anymore. Add to this "Everlasting Punishment" the fact that Jesus also supposedly taught that only FEW will make it into the Kingdom of heaven and Christianity is looking pretty bleak. That's supposed to be "Good News"? Sounds far worse that what we see on the news already, if you ask me. A God who supposedly gives us a "FREE CHOICE"? Either serve his will only for all eternity, or suffer "Everlasting Punishment"! Sounds like a demon to me!  |
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Cowboy wrote: No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. So? That's all the more reason not to bother with "Christianity" at all. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. In short, Jesus himself does not support "Christianity" and really has nothing at all to do with it. Christianity is just the religion that stole his namesake and acts like they have the copyright on him. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. I totally accept Jesus and view him as my brother. As far as I'm concerned that's precisely what he taught. "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jesus is referring to mortal men as his "brethren", not as his children! By the way, when I looked that up I found the following verse too: Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) So you better think twice about the concept an eternal hell for humans if you're taking these scriptures seriously, and you claim to TRUST the words that these scripture assign to Jesus as verbatim quotes. I personally don't buy into the scriptures on a verbatim level. I simply don't believe in a God who would create souls knowing that the vast majority of them would be cast into a place of eternal punishment. And clearly these gospels also have Jesus claiming that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of heaven, thus the vast majority of souls would necessarily end up in an eternal hell of "Everlasting Punishment" as these gospels claim that Jesus himself promises. From my personal perspective there would be nothing "righteous" about a creator who is attempting to raise a few obedient slaves at the cost of casting the vast majority of "failures" into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". What would be the point to that? It couldn't be a 'lesson' since there's no end to it. So the punished souls would never benefit from the so-called 'lesson'. Neither would God ever benefit from such a state of affairs unless God is some sort of sadist who gets his jollies off knowing that people are suffering eternally for refusing to be his obedient slaves. There is something truly demonic about this whole story. The vast majority of human souls go to hell? A place of "Everlasting Punishment" according to Jesus himself? That's the "Good News" of Christianity? Somethings is grossly wrong here. An atheistic reality would be far better than this picture. These scriptures cannot be true verbatim. Unless the creator of all mankind is himself a insane sadist. There would be no point in casting unwanted failures into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". If they aren't interested in serving this "God" then just let them die a spiritual death. Why cast them into "Everlasting Punishment". Either these scriptures contain gross errors (or outright lies), or our creator is an insane sadist. Like I say, an atheistic reality would be better than the latter. I am not 'angry' with anyone. I totally understand that people interpret the many contexts and definitions of the english language in the way they have become accustomed to. Nothing angering about that,, although sometimes it can be frustrating when they dont want to aknowledge how complex and varied english can be. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Wed 03/16/11 01:17 AM
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki Yea except there is nothing Christians have that others do not so if a person sees that, the person actually has low self esteem and is in need of counseling not religion. No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. Here's the thing, Christianity and Jesus are pretty much looped together anymore. You can't have one without the other, they are not mutually exclusive in your religion. So in order for one to believe in Jesus, they have to believe Christianity too. There's no room for different thinking. It's either believe or die, and I think God is a bit better than that. |
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki Yea except there is nothing Christians have that others do not so if a person sees that, the person actually has low self esteem and is in need of counseling not religion. No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. Here's the thing, Christianity and Jesus are pretty much looped together anymore. You can't have one without the other, they are not mutually exclusive in your religion. So in order for one to believe in Jesus, they have to believe Christianity too. There's no room for different thinking. It's either believe or die, and I think God is a bit better than that. isnt the english language grand? christianity: : the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies 2: conformity to the Christian religion 3: the practice of Christianity sacred : a : dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity <a tree sacred to the gods> b : devoted exclusively to one service or use (as of a person or purpose) <a fund sacred to charity> 2a : worthy of religious veneration : holy b : entitled to reverence and respect One can believe in Jesus(believe he existed) from a strictly historical point of view without believing ANYTHING in the bible about what he preached or what happened or what God commanded. One can also believe in Jesus and the sacredness of the bible. to believe the BOOK saves people is to miss the point. Certainly before the BOOK was published, there were people and they werent all doomed for having not read (and therefore not being able to BELIEVE the book) the BOOK Is a resource for those who would use it, to better understand the history of Jesus and God and the things they fashioned to come to pass and our part in it so, christianity is a religion which is studied with a resource called 'The Bible', unless one has some other resource with which to enlighten themself about what Jesus taught christian is a label applied to those who adhere to what Jesus taught, something that is USUALLY expected to be explained in the bible but one can also be christian without ever having read a bible , if their hearts call to them to adhere to what Jesus taught I guess IM saying, all thats required for one to be christian is not a BOOK, its living by the message in the BOOK |
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Cowboy wrote: No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. So? That's all the more reason not to bother with "Christianity" at all. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. In short, Jesus himself does not support "Christianity" and really has nothing at all to do with it. Christianity is just the religion that stole his namesake and acts like they have the copyright on him. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. I totally accept Jesus and view him as my brother. As far as I'm concerned that's precisely what he taught. "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jesus is referring to mortal men as his "brethren", not as his children! By the way, when I looked that up I found the following verse too: Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) So you better think twice about the concept an eternal hell for humans if you're taking these scriptures seriously, and you claim to TRUST the words that these scripture assign to Jesus as verbatim quotes. I personally don't buy into the scriptures on a verbatim level. I simply don't believe in a God who would create souls knowing that the vast majority of them would be cast into a place of eternal punishment. And clearly these gospels also have Jesus claiming that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of heaven, thus the vast majority of souls would necessarily end up in an eternal hell of "Everlasting Punishment" as these gospels claim that Jesus himself promises. From my personal perspective there would be nothing "righteous" about a creator who is attempting to raise a few obedient slaves at the cost of casting the vast majority of "failures" into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". What would be the point to that? It couldn't be a 'lesson' since there's no end to it. So the punished souls would never benefit from the so-called 'lesson'. Neither would God ever benefit from such a state of affairs unless God is some sort of sadist who gets his jollies off knowing that people are suffering eternally for refusing to be his obedient slaves. There is something truly demonic about this whole story. The vast majority of human souls go to hell? A place of "Everlasting Punishment" according to Jesus himself? That's the "Good News" of Christianity? Somethings is grossly wrong here. An atheistic reality would be far better than this picture. These scriptures cannot be true verbatim. Unless the creator of all mankind is himself a insane sadist. There would be no point in casting unwanted failures into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". If they aren't interested in serving this "God" then just let them die a spiritual death. Why cast them into "Everlasting Punishment". Either these scriptures contain gross errors (or outright lies), or our creator is an insane sadist. Like I say, an atheistic reality would be better than the latter. I am not 'angry' with anyone. I totally understand that people interpret the many contexts and definitions of the english language in the way they have become accustomed to. Nothing angering about that,, although sometimes it can be frustrating when they dont want to aknowledge how complex and varied english can be. What are you suggesting here? That the bible may contain a lot of errors due to poor translations? I'm more than willing to accept that. But if we're going to do that, then we must do it for the whole book, not just the specific things that the Christians don't like. They seem to demand that a verbatim approach holds perfectly find when it comes to things like "No one gets to the father but by me". Well, that could have been a mistranslation too! Maybe it should have read, "No one can get to the spirit but by the things I teach". That would be compatible with something that a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva could have easily said. So I'm totally open to a fallible Bible that can't be trusted to be the "verbatim" truth about anything.  Yep, I'll gladly buy that!
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Cowboy wrote: No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. So? That's all the more reason not to bother with "Christianity" at all. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. In short, Jesus himself does not support "Christianity" and really has nothing at all to do with it. Christianity is just the religion that stole his namesake and acts like they have the copyright on him. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. I totally accept Jesus and view him as my brother. As far as I'm concerned that's precisely what he taught. "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jesus is referring to mortal men as his "brethren", not as his children! By the way, when I looked that up I found the following verse too: Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) So you better think twice about the concept an eternal hell for humans if you're taking these scriptures seriously, and you claim to TRUST the words that these scripture assign to Jesus as verbatim quotes. I personally don't buy into the scriptures on a verbatim level. I simply don't believe in a God who would create souls knowing that the vast majority of them would be cast into a place of eternal punishment. And clearly these gospels also have Jesus claiming that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of heaven, thus the vast majority of souls would necessarily end up in an eternal hell of "Everlasting Punishment" as these gospels claim that Jesus himself promises. From my personal perspective there would be nothing "righteous" about a creator who is attempting to raise a few obedient slaves at the cost of casting the vast majority of "failures" into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". What would be the point to that? It couldn't be a 'lesson' since there's no end to it. So the punished souls would never benefit from the so-called 'lesson'. Neither would God ever benefit from such a state of affairs unless God is some sort of sadist who gets his jollies off knowing that people are suffering eternally for refusing to be his obedient slaves. There is something truly demonic about this whole story. The vast majority of human souls go to hell? A place of "Everlasting Punishment" according to Jesus himself? That's the "Good News" of Christianity? Somethings is grossly wrong here. An atheistic reality would be far better than this picture. These scriptures cannot be true verbatim. Unless the creator of all mankind is himself a insane sadist. There would be no point in casting unwanted failures into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". If they aren't interested in serving this "God" then just let them die a spiritual death. Why cast them into "Everlasting Punishment". Either these scriptures contain gross errors (or outright lies), or our creator is an insane sadist. Like I say, an atheistic reality would be better than the latter. I am not 'angry' with anyone. I totally understand that people interpret the many contexts and definitions of the english language in the way they have become accustomed to. Nothing angering about that,, although sometimes it can be frustrating when they dont want to aknowledge how complex and varied english can be. What are you suggesting here? That the bible may contain a lot of errors due to poor translations? I'm more than willing to accept that. But if we're going to do that, then we must do it for the whole book, not just the specific things that the Christians don't like. They seem to demand that a verbatim approach holds perfectly find when it comes to things like "No one gets to the father but by me". Well, that could have been a mistranslation too! Maybe it should have read, "No one can get to the spirit but by the things I teach". That would be compatible with something that a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva could have easily said. So I'm totally open to a fallible Bible that can't be trusted to be the "verbatim" truth about anything. Yep, I'll gladly buy that! actually, what I was saying, I thought was pretty clear. When people read the bible, and it is in english, they are often not willing to debate the many potential contexts and meanings of a word or words. the phrase 'in Gods image', could mean EXACTLY like God, but I know I am not Exactly like God because I cannot create a universe or an intelligent species. To argue that everyone is christlike, is accurate depending upon what similarities we refer to. Everyone is here because of God would be one potential similarity, Everyone(barring anomalies and illnesses) has certain organs which make them 'human' thats another similarity. to be LIKE is to be similar. But to brush off the explanation that someone might want to be christ like by simply looking at that definition makes it much simpler than it actually is. I merely offered the point of view that one can still wish to be LIKE Christ,, in those things that they yet are not. I am female like my mom, I am a parent, like my mom, I am loving, like my mom. However, when it comes to getting down to business , I sure wish I were LIKE my mom. I am christlike in how I was brought to life , I would like to be christlike in how I LIVE that life. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Wed 03/16/11 01:51 AM
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki Yea except there is nothing Christians have that others do not so if a person sees that, the person actually has low self esteem and is in need of counseling not religion. No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. Here's the thing, Christianity and Jesus are pretty much looped together anymore. You can't have one without the other, they are not mutually exclusive in your religion. So in order for one to believe in Jesus, they have to believe Christianity too. There's no room for different thinking. It's either believe or die, and I think God is a bit better than that. isnt the english language grand? christianity: : the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies 2: conformity to the Christian religion 3: the practice of Christianity sacred : a : dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity <a tree sacred to the gods> b : devoted exclusively to one service or use (as of a person or purpose) <a fund sacred to charity> 2a : worthy of religious veneration : holy b : entitled to reverence and respect One can believe in Jesus(believe he existed) from a strictly historical point of view without believing ANYTHING in the bible about what he preached or what happened or what God commanded. One can also believe in Jesus and the sacredness of the bible. to believe the BOOK saves people is to miss the point. Certainly before the BOOK was published, there were people and they werent all doomed for having not read (and therefore not being able to BELIEVE the book) the BOOK Is a resource for those who would use it, to better understand the history of Jesus and God and the things they fashioned to come to pass and our part in it so, christianity is a religion which is studied with a resource called 'The Bible', unless one has some other resource with which to enlighten themself about what Jesus taught christian is a label applied to those who adhere to what Jesus taught, something that is USUALLY expected to be explained in the bible but one can also be christian without ever having read a bible , if their hearts call to them to adhere to what Jesus taught I guess IM saying, all thats required for one to be christian is not a BOOK, its living by the message in the BOOK But it still comes down to just that a BOOK. You end up placing your faith more in a book than in God Himself. How can you ever be sure any book, is God's divine word? Does God strictly tell you that, or does man? I've said it before and I'll say it again, God is not now and never was limited to a book, and His truth cannot be found strictly in one spot. This is man's lie, as they seek to control, divide which they have succeeded quite well at. |
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Cowboy wrote: No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. So? That's all the more reason not to bother with "Christianity" at all. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. In short, Jesus himself does not support "Christianity" and really has nothing at all to do with it. Christianity is just the religion that stole his namesake and acts like they have the copyright on him. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. I totally accept Jesus and view him as my brother. As far as I'm concerned that's precisely what he taught. "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jesus is referring to mortal men as his "brethren", not as his children! By the way, when I looked that up I found the following verse too: Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) So you better think twice about the concept an eternal hell for humans if you're taking these scriptures seriously, and you claim to TRUST the words that these scripture assign to Jesus as verbatim quotes. I personally don't buy into the scriptures on a verbatim level. I simply don't believe in a God who would create souls knowing that the vast majority of them would be cast into a place of eternal punishment. And clearly these gospels also have Jesus claiming that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of heaven, thus the vast majority of souls would necessarily end up in an eternal hell of "Everlasting Punishment" as these gospels claim that Jesus himself promises. From my personal perspective there would be nothing "righteous" about a creator who is attempting to raise a few obedient slaves at the cost of casting the vast majority of "failures" into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". What would be the point to that? It couldn't be a 'lesson' since there's no end to it. So the punished souls would never benefit from the so-called 'lesson'. Neither would God ever benefit from such a state of affairs unless God is some sort of sadist who gets his jollies off knowing that people are suffering eternally for refusing to be his obedient slaves. There is something truly demonic about this whole story. The vast majority of human souls go to hell? A place of "Everlasting Punishment" according to Jesus himself? That's the "Good News" of Christianity? Somethings is grossly wrong here. An atheistic reality would be far better than this picture. These scriptures cannot be true verbatim. Unless the creator of all mankind is himself a insane sadist. There would be no point in casting unwanted failures into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". If they aren't interested in serving this "God" then just let them die a spiritual death. Why cast them into "Everlasting Punishment". Either these scriptures contain gross errors (or outright lies), or our creator is an insane sadist. Like I say, an atheistic reality would be better than the latter. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. He specifically states he came to fulfill the law. So in that he did believe the Torah as the verbatim word of God, as he was here to fulfill it. And no he may not have TOLD anyone to write anything down, what does that have to do with anything? Things become misconstrued and screwed up being passed down by word of mouth after a period of time. You can get 30 people and line them up in a circle. Tell the first person a short story and have that person pass it down and so forth. The story will not be the exact same when it gets to the end of the line. So of course with this same logic they wrote everything down as to not have the same thing happen to the laws of our lord. And besides that, he NEVER told them that it wasn't important to believe the Torah was the verbatim word of God, he NEVER. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. That statement makes absolutely no sense. Christianity is built around the teachings of Jesus. So in this what you're saying is that you have no problem with Jesus as a person, but it's his teachings you reject? Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) Yes there will be everlasting punishment, in the LAKE OF FIRE. Hell is thrown into the lake of fire and burned. Hell is destroyed just as Satan will be. |
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Cowboy wrote: No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. So? That's all the more reason not to bother with "Christianity" at all. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. In short, Jesus himself does not support "Christianity" and really has nothing at all to do with it. Christianity is just the religion that stole his namesake and acts like they have the copyright on him. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. I totally accept Jesus and view him as my brother. As far as I'm concerned that's precisely what he taught. "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Jesus is referring to mortal men as his "brethren", not as his children! By the way, when I looked that up I found the following verse too: Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) So you better think twice about the concept an eternal hell for humans if you're taking these scriptures seriously, and you claim to TRUST the words that these scripture assign to Jesus as verbatim quotes. I personally don't buy into the scriptures on a verbatim level. I simply don't believe in a God who would create souls knowing that the vast majority of them would be cast into a place of eternal punishment. And clearly these gospels also have Jesus claiming that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of heaven, thus the vast majority of souls would necessarily end up in an eternal hell of "Everlasting Punishment" as these gospels claim that Jesus himself promises. From my personal perspective there would be nothing "righteous" about a creator who is attempting to raise a few obedient slaves at the cost of casting the vast majority of "failures" into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". What would be the point to that? It couldn't be a 'lesson' since there's no end to it. So the punished souls would never benefit from the so-called 'lesson'. Neither would God ever benefit from such a state of affairs unless God is some sort of sadist who gets his jollies off knowing that people are suffering eternally for refusing to be his obedient slaves. There is something truly demonic about this whole story. The vast majority of human souls go to hell? A place of "Everlasting Punishment" according to Jesus himself? That's the "Good News" of Christianity? Somethings is grossly wrong here. An atheistic reality would be far better than this picture. These scriptures cannot be true verbatim. Unless the creator of all mankind is himself a insane sadist. There would be no point in casting unwanted failures into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". If they aren't interested in serving this "God" then just let them die a spiritual death. Why cast them into "Everlasting Punishment". Either these scriptures contain gross errors (or outright lies), or our creator is an insane sadist. Like I say, an atheistic reality would be better than the latter. Even according to the gospels Jesus never told anyone that it was important to believe that the Torah was the verbatim word of God, nor did he predict that any New Testament would be written or that it would be important to believe in that either. He specifically states he came to fulfill the law. So in that he did believe the Torah as the verbatim word of God, as he was here to fulfill it. And no he may not have TOLD anyone to write anything down, what does that have to do with anything? Things become misconstrued and screwed up being passed down by word of mouth after a period of time. You can get 30 people and line them up in a circle. Tell the first person a short story and have that person pass it down and so forth. The story will not be the exact same when it gets to the end of the line. So of course with this same logic they wrote everything down as to not have the same thing happen to the laws of our lord. And besides that, he NEVER told them that it wasn't important to believe the Torah was the verbatim word of God, he NEVER. I have no problem with Jesus, but I have huge problems with Christianity. That statement makes absolutely no sense. Christianity is built around the teachings of Jesus. So in this what you're saying is that you have no problem with Jesus as a person, but it's his teachings you reject? Matthew 25:40 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Jesus speaking about humans being cast into "Everlasting Punishment" again? This clearly supports the concept of an eternal hell for humans and it's Jesus' own words (according to these scriptures) Yes there will be everlasting punishment, in the LAKE OF FIRE. Hell is thrown into the lake of fire and burned. Hell is destroyed just as Satan will be. I personally don't buy into the scriptures on a verbatim level. I simply don't believe in a God who would create souls knowing that the vast majority of them would be cast into a place of eternal punishment. And clearly these gospels also have Jesus claiming that only FEW will make it into the kingdom of heaven, thus the vast majority of souls would necessarily end up in an eternal hell of "Everlasting Punishment" as these gospels claim that Jesus himself promises. From my personal perspective there would be nothing "righteous" about a creator who is attempting to raise a few obedient slaves at the cost of casting the vast majority of "failures" into a place of "Everlasting Punishment". The souls weren't created to go to the lake of fire. The souls were made to go to heaven, every soul is made to share in the glory of heaven. Just God knows this will not happen. But nevertheless every soul was ment to be in heaven. |
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki Yea except there is nothing Christians have that others do not so if a person sees that, the person actually has low self esteem and is in need of counseling not religion. No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. Here's the thing, Christianity and Jesus are pretty much looped together anymore. You can't have one without the other, they are not mutually exclusive in your religion. So in order for one to believe in Jesus, they have to believe Christianity too. There's no room for different thinking. It's either believe or die, and I think God is a bit better than that. isnt the english language grand? christianity: : the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies 2: conformity to the Christian religion 3: the practice of Christianity sacred : a : dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity <a tree sacred to the gods> b : devoted exclusively to one service or use (as of a person or purpose) <a fund sacred to charity> 2a : worthy of religious veneration : holy b : entitled to reverence and respect One can believe in Jesus(believe he existed) from a strictly historical point of view without believing ANYTHING in the bible about what he preached or what happened or what God commanded. One can also believe in Jesus and the sacredness of the bible. to believe the BOOK saves people is to miss the point. Certainly before the BOOK was published, there were people and they werent all doomed for having not read (and therefore not being able to BELIEVE the book) the BOOK Is a resource for those who would use it, to better understand the history of Jesus and God and the things they fashioned to come to pass and our part in it so, christianity is a religion which is studied with a resource called 'The Bible', unless one has some other resource with which to enlighten themself about what Jesus taught christian is a label applied to those who adhere to what Jesus taught, something that is USUALLY expected to be explained in the bible but one can also be christian without ever having read a bible , if their hearts call to them to adhere to what Jesus taught I guess IM saying, all thats required for one to be christian is not a BOOK, its living by the message in the BOOK But it still comes down to just that a BOOK. You end up placing your faith more in a book than in God Himself. How can you ever be sure any book, is God's divine word? Does God strictly tell you that, or does man? I've said it before and I'll say it again, God is not now and never was limited to a book, and His truth cannot be found strictly in one spot. This is man's lie, as they seek to control, divide which they have succeeded quite well at. One could argue that same thing about "The origin of species" Your trusting that a very old theory is correct. Your taking one mans "Muddled" opinion and putting ALL your faith in it. Everybody believe in something. What that is is up to the individual. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 03/16/11 08:49 AM
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 msharmony said: the phrase 'in Gods image', could mean EXACTLY like God, but I know I am not Exactly like God because I cannot create a universe or an intelligent species. That seems like a logical thing to say but it assumes that God actually "created" a universe when I believe that "God" is the universe and simply manifested. I also hold that our bodies are a universe and that by our consciousness and our thought vibrations we manifest our bodies and our reality. There is some evidence of this, but it gets into the idea that the true reality is one dimensional and is projected as a three dimensional hologram via the mechanism of components of the universal mind. One of the pieces of evidence is that everything you see is simply a vibration and a reflection of light. This is a scientific fact. To argue that everyone is christlike, is accurate depending upon what similarities we refer to. Everyone is here because of God would be one potential similarity, Everyone(barring anomalies and illnesses) has certain organs which make them 'human' thats another similarity. to be LIKE is to be similar. The term "Christlike" actually refers to a state of consciousness not a physical appearance. A Christlike consciousness is simply one that has reached a stage of love and compassion towards others. It is a state that is the goal of most incarnated souls here in order to progress into the next level of the game. Here I refer to humans as avatars in a giant computer game. You are only allowed into the next level when you pass certain criteria here on this one. If you don't have love and compassion for other sentient beings you are doomed to stay at this level UNTIL THE END OF THE GAME which is the end of time as we know it. Then all humans will transcend this physical world and they will proceed to the next game. The next game will depend on how "Christlike" they have become, but ALL humans will ascend out of this world at the end of the game. The galactic aliens, who are not human, will remain here simply because they do not have the capacity and human experience to become Christlike or compassionate. The reasons for that have to do with the method of incarnation they chose. The aliens I refer to are what some religions call Satan, or demons. Because of their choice of incarnation method, they cannot proceed to the higher levels. |
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Cowboy wrote: That statement makes absolutely no sense. Christianity is built around the teachings of Jesus. So in this what you're saying is that you have no problem with Jesus as a person, but it's his teachings you reject? No Christianity is not built around the teachings of Jesus. Christianity is a demand that the entire biblical cannon be worshiped as the verbatim word of God. And Jesus never even remotely implied that any such thing is important. In fact, Jesus could not have condoned the New Testament because it hadn't even been written yet when he was alive, nor did he predict that it should or would be written and he certainly never mentioned anything about any Saul/Paul who would finish his teachings on his behalf. So, no Christianity has very little to do with the actual teachings of Jesus. Moreover, the New Testament can't even be trusted to contain the teachings of Jesus since it's clearly just hearsay rumors as confessed by the very authors who wrote it. Yes there will be everlasting punishment, in the LAKE OF FIRE. Hell is thrown into the lake of fire and burned. Hell is destroyed just as Satan will be. Well this flies in the face of what you've been preaching for the past several months, because you have been totally refuting the idea of any such everlasting punishment altogether. You've been preaching that we either are given the "gift" of eternal life or we spiritually die. Now your just trying to claim that the everlasting punishment takes place in a different place from hell is all. That's just a superficial play on labels. It doesn't change the concept at all. So clearly you just keep changing your position every time I educate you on your doctrine. |
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Very interesting points of view. Let me offer another. As Christians, we learn that the best way to have someone be interested in Christianity is to be Christ-like. They have to see Christ in you, and see that you have something they do not. Then, they ask you something like, "What's your secret?" And then you, as a Christian, should ask if they are open to having a conversation about Christ. If they are, then you proceed with talking about Christ. If not, then you, as a Christian, are doing your role. That is, we can't force people to become Christian. Since I started this post, three people have e-mailed me, and we have had some pretty good conversations about Christ. Hope this helps, Shiki Yea except there is nothing Christians have that others do not so if a person sees that, the person actually has low self esteem and is in need of counseling not religion. No "CHRISTIANITY" has nothing to offer outside of what other "beliefs" offer. But Jesus does. Jesus offers eternal life in a paradise built for each and everyone of us. Here's the thing, Christianity and Jesus are pretty much looped together anymore. You can't have one without the other, they are not mutually exclusive in your religion. So in order for one to believe in Jesus, they have to believe Christianity too. There's no room for different thinking. It's either believe or die, and I think God is a bit better than that. isnt the english language grand? christianity: : the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies 2: conformity to the Christian religion 3: the practice of Christianity sacred : a : dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity <a tree sacred to the gods> b : devoted exclusively to one service or use (as of a person or purpose) <a fund sacred to charity> 2a : worthy of religious veneration : holy b : entitled to reverence and respect One can believe in Jesus(believe he existed) from a strictly historical point of view without believing ANYTHING in the bible about what he preached or what happened or what God commanded. One can also believe in Jesus and the sacredness of the bible. to believe the BOOK saves people is to miss the point. Certainly before the BOOK was published, there were people and they werent all doomed for having not read (and therefore not being able to BELIEVE the book) the BOOK Is a resource for those who would use it, to better understand the history of Jesus and God and the things they fashioned to come to pass and our part in it so, christianity is a religion which is studied with a resource called 'The Bible', unless one has some other resource with which to enlighten themself about what Jesus taught christian is a label applied to those who adhere to what Jesus taught, something that is USUALLY expected to be explained in the bible but one can also be christian without ever having read a bible , if their hearts call to them to adhere to what Jesus taught I guess IM saying, all thats required for one to be christian is not a BOOK, its living by the message in the BOOK But it still comes down to just that a BOOK. You end up placing your faith more in a book than in God Himself. How can you ever be sure any book, is God's divine word? Does God strictly tell you that, or does man? I've said it before and I'll say it again, God is not now and never was limited to a book, and His truth cannot be found strictly in one spot. This is man's lie, as they seek to control, divide which they have succeeded quite well at. It doesnt come down to the Book for ME. The Book is the truth. The truth would be and is the truth with or without the Book. My anatomy is my anatomy wheter or not I ever read a BOOK to explain in more detail about my anatomy. The BOOK is a resource to explain life, to explain the time of Jesus in more detail, but Gods plan and his message existed long before and without the BOOK. The Book is an added blessing to keep there from being as much guesswork. I have never believed, nor most christians I know that God is 'limited' at all. I do , however, believe the BOOK to be a valuable resource for trying to better understand some of the history of Gods Blessings and the life of Jesus. |
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another excellent possibility,,,
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Jeanniebean wrote: One of the pieces of evidence is that everything you see is simply a vibration and a reflection of light. This is a scientific fact. This is certainly true. This is something that we know today that the ancient people could not possibly know, yet the Eastern Mystics actually guessed as much. And when modern science discovered this fact, the Eastern Mystics were confirmed in their speculations. Note to Jeannie: Some scientists could potentially object to your use of your term "light" here, simply because technically this refers to electromagnetic phenomenon specifically and there exists other forms of energy fields at the quantum level. However, for all practical purposes your statement still holds true as these other quantum energy fields behave identical to light in their own domain of effect. In other words, they also are produced via vibrations, reflections, and interference, just like light. So whilst you are abstractly correct, the use of the term "light" could cause some scientists to argue your point on a technicality. However, replace the term "light" with "energy", and they would no longer have a technically to nit-pick on. In other words, all of physical reality that we experience is nothing more than waves of energy vibrating, reflecting, and interfering. But technically there's more to it than just the electromagnetic waves. There are other kinds of "waves" too. But they are still just waves of energy. It's all just waves vibrating. That's the bottom line. |
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