I cannot even imagine looking at an empty penitentiary and saying to myself, we should house the poor in there.

So IT just ain't happening for me on that level.

I don't know. I guess I'm not looking at it as a prison. I am picturing it more with a new paint job....doors, windows. The yard a place to relax and have visitors come see you (without the barb wire and guards though)

It's a big place that could house a lot of people in need. Not meaning to sound flippant, but plants, curtains, pictures, etc can really change a place.

Question for those of you that are against this, given all the positive things that yellow rose has said here recently....if this is an option that you are set against, what is your suggestion at housing the poor, taking those people off the streets and having no place to live. Everyone seems to be so against it, but instead of pointing out the problems, how about coming up with a reasonable solution. If this is not an option in your mind, how do you suggest the problem be addressed?

I'm honestly thinking that the real issue is that it's a prison. I understand the fear behind that (even if I don't agree)

But it's a big building that can house a lot of people and get them off the street and into a better life.

the sentiment of the developer that people would volunteer to

'receive training in job hunting, "personal hygiene" and other skills typically lacking in people who "come from dysfunctional homes." '

is less than enough information about what the POINT would be,,,it is assuming that people dont know how to look for work or clean themselves because they are poor and that might provide a dangerous foundation for how those who enlist will actually be treated,,,


its called a work camp why? because people will be employed and paid, or because they will be working in a capacity someone else decides in return for a six by six room,,?


Id honestly need to hear more about what the details are and what point it would serve to see it as a good idea,,,

I'm looking at it more as a JobCorp thing....I could be wrong. You are right that there isn't much info to go on.

I know many that don't have interview skills to go on good jobs (poor or not) so this is always a good thing to help.

I took the hygiene part more as how to present themselves to employers, etc and for the homeless who might not be used to cleaning properly any more.

Not all poor people are dirty. My grandmother was dirt poor growing up but they were always very clean.

I think those things are just offered to those that might need it. Not necessarily to everyone.

That is just my take on it. I could be totally wrong, but without seeing it in action, it's hard to decide.

I think they need to be watched though to be safe. They meaning the program....not the participants

Maybe the work camp part is like on the job training.

I would be the first to disapprove of something for others that I wouldn't be willing to do myself in that situation.

I can see this being a great thing, but I can see the other side where it's not. Just depends on how they handle it and I hope they handle it the right way....to give people a helping hand

Any building can be converted to a prison, any prison can be converted to just about anything you want with a little money. There was a proposal to convert Alcatraz into a Hotel and tourist attraction and another to tear it all down and build a resort on the island.

Now having been part of and among the volunteer world, there ARE a lot of people who would gladly volunteer for help. the question is when offered a chance to get themselves back on their feet will people take it.

When I lived in Redding I ran into the minister who ran the shelter shopping for the needs of the shelter and he had three volunteers with him loading up multiple shopping carts. I asked him about the realities of running a shelter there. Some people had to be forced to bath or not come in becasue they stank that bad. He told me most of the regulars were drug addicts that would dry out a little and then be back on the streets when the weather permitted. You could tell them after the first day at the shelter. A few people that arrived at his shelter though took the help offered, gladly bathed, attended his counseling, were put in the community college and trained to do something with their lives. The rest had no ambition other than their next fix. One of my teachers worked as a welfare councilor and she even told us about the dark side of human psychology. There were people who would walk in her office and demand money right from the gate. Her job was doing intake work, not assessing people of how much money they get handed.

Here in Los Angeles we have a LOT of Street People A.K.A. Lurkers. One guy hangs out at the same place EVERY day unless it is raining. he has been at the same spot for over 20 years and his beard keeps getting longer and longer. He will not bath or change his cloths for DAYS! You can tell when he took a bath easily! There is another one who comes through Redondo Beach every once in a while. She smells so bad you can smell her 20 feet up wind! That is not an exaggeration! I was down wind of her and could not take it. Raw sewage didn't smell that powerfully. We also have a lot of the Sign Carrying "Homeless and Hungry" Scumbags and they live in RV and RV converts (and they are usually beat to hell and loaded with crap) and they park anywhere and they are HARD core Meth addicts. When they roll into town crime suddenly goes up like thefts and break ins. They will steal anything not tied down.

Noticed I have not said anything about people in trailer parks! There are some really nice ones here and there is no shame in living in one to me. Some people like not feeling tied down to one spot.

It bothers me knowing the help is out there and not just government sponsored either. There has to be strings to getting help. There has to be a reciprocation. If there are rules and qualifications to get it then it cuts down on people abusing the system. Free hand outs motivate no one.

there are different levels of Poverty. I think focusing on the people who really want out of the poverty cycle are the ones to help. The rest, well, like Evolution mandates just need to die out!
it may sound cold but life (nature) weeds out the worthless and the weak. Poor person wanting a better life and willing to put up the effort = deserves help. Scum bag who is happy drinking cheap booze and sleeping where they lie = you would not like my answer.

Only people who want to change themselves will do anything with help offered them to make themselves better. I have seen "homeless" people begging for money gt pissed when you offer them food instead of money. I seen one guy pull a knife on someone because they would not give him money. he must have been spun out of his mind to demand money from a Cholo becasue his friends intervened. It is amazing how fast those scumbags can run...

There has to be a way of making sure that the help people are getting is not being abused like the emergency temporary housing post Katrina...

It is one thing to get homeless people off of the street but can you teach them to stay OFF of the street themselves????

how much money do you think they wanna spend on this?

housing, education, healthcare are RIGHTS not priviledges...fight the war against poverty...NOT the poor.....

constitutionally speaking, none of those concepts are mentioned,,,

but I do believe everyone who contributes should havebe able to have their basic needs met

constitutionally speaking, none of those concepts are mentioned,,,

but I do believe everyone who contributes should havebe able to have their basic needs met

I disagree. Strongly. All of those things can be expensive to provide, and it would be a disaster if we have a culture of people who felt entitled to simply have these things given to them.

Or maybe you meant 'access to'?

Then I would agree. People ought to be willing to work, willing to contribute, and they ought to also have access to affordable housing, education, and healthcare.

Edit: I see MsHarmony already said something similar.

I agree

Actually that was suppose to be, i agree with your disagree and agree with the "access to"

What was said about the poor was terribly prejudice against them and to look at a prison and imagine the poor in it shows a skewed view of the poor.

NO! It is assuming that there are people out there who don't know how to look for work or clean themselves who are also poor.

This is a fair assumption. They are real. In california, we have tons and tons of these people. I hear they were turned out onto the streets long ago when certain state funding was cut which had previously housed them. They also move to california from all over the country, because of our warm weather and our history of liberal support (which may be ending due to california's economic problems).


This is not prejudice against poor people in general. It is an accurate assessment of some people.




Or because they will be taught job hunting skills? And who is calling it a work camp? Maybe its just the people who are against it, because they know that this phrasing will summon images of Japanese internment camps and similar.

I really don't know.



I completely agree.

I'm sure it does for some people. I'm sure there are people out there who view poor people simply as a 'problem' to be 'managed', not actual human beings.

But I'm not convinced that everyone who looks at a prison and thinks 'house the poor' has that frame of mind.

Some people are simply focused on efficiency and pragmatism, with an eye towards helping the poor.

Others may see see this in a positive, if slightly romantic light - the old "swords to plowshares" kind of thing. They are transforming a horrible building of incarceration into a wonderful place of empowerment and uplift.

duplicate

someone posted this on here, not sure who it was, but it made a lot of sense.."you can give a person a fish, but teaching then how to fish will last longer"...

I want to clarify something - saying 'don't know how to clean yourself' may sound horribly condescending...I mean, what kind of adult simply doesn't know how to turn on a shower and stand beneath it, right?

But there is some sublty and complexity to this issue. There are issues of personal pride (not having self respect, self esteem, not being motivate to care about ones appearance). There are long established habits. There are issue of self-awareness. There are shifting perspectives of what is expecting, appropriate.

I've known poor people who have perpetual fungus issues, who hang out with other people who have permanent fungus issues, and the entire group of them simply accept rotting fungus smell as a normal smell of human beings in everyday life. In a way, I prefer this attitude over the the elitism of typical middle class people - but when it comes to getting employment and integrating into mainstream society, this kind of 'acceptance' will work against these people.

I once arranged for a homeless friend to work for a day at a farm that I worked for. It took him almost 2 hours to take a shower, brush his hair, his teeth, change his clothes, etc - similar actions took me 15 minutes. This is partly because all of these actions were practically forgotten by him. I was seriously tempted to school him into how to perform hygiene acts more efficiently - but I was already risking offending him by schooling him in basic etiquette for the job.

I've known homeless people who have gone so long without making regular use of a mirror, nor caring what they look like, that they have to relearn to do so.


People with these histories actually do need to relearn things we all take for granted.