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| Topic: see i have an issue | |
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with the gay thing... some gays believe in god and jesus but yet christains have this belief rather it be a chester or rapist..etc that as long as they accept jesus as their lord and savior they are going to heaven,so the old testament god says you shall not worship any god before me or whatever ways you want to type it's meaningless meaning...even my homeboy isaac newton questioned this one,so if a gay man says i accept jesus as my lord and savior does that mean he is going to heaven...even though he meaning god never produced women for adam and eves kids to keep the population going or rather its an abomination According to the New Testament, a person has salvation if that person confesses that Jesus is LORD and believes that God the Father has raised Jesus from the dead. Nowhere does the New Testament say that a person has to be a heterosexual in order to obtain salvation. When Jesus died on the Cross, he paid for the sins of heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. Thus, God’s gift of eternal life is available to both heterosexuals and homosexuals. So how are we who are Christians to respond to homosexuality? Answer: We ought to acknowledge that some people feel sexually attracted to members of the same gender. The origin of this feeling may be debated, but those with this feeling do not choose to have it. If we condemn this feeling, then we condemn ourselves for feeling the urge to engage in any sinful behavior. For example, if a married man feels sexually attracted to a woman other than his wife, then his feeling is no less sinful than the feeling of a homosexual man toward another man. Plenty of married Christian men feel sexually attracted to women other than their wives. Yet, the feelings that these men have are not considered to be bad enough for the men to be condemned. Should we condemn homosexual behavior? Answer: Only if we are willing to condemn our own sinful behaviors. A person does not have to engage in homosexual behavior in order to do something worthy of condemnation. We need to remember the words of the Apostle James: “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it” (James 2:10). Are we to say that homosexuals should receive the same humane treatment given to heterosexuals? Answer: Yes. We do not have to accept homosexual behavior in order to treat homosexuals humanely. Are we to focus attention on homosexual behavior while ignoring the weightier matters of the Bible, such as taking care of the poor (Matthew 25)? Answer: No. That would be a case of straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel. Finally, can a person be a both a homosexual and a Christian? Answer: Yes, because homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin. [Note: My statements above are from my book SOULHAVEN, which is not yet published.] |
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I do understand how christians and non christians sin equally I think the difference though is in whether one is living with an attitude of embracing sinful behavior or not I may have been guilty of telling lies when I was younger, but I strove to be better and grew up and learned to not tell lies as I got older I think when one is embracing Christ, as a christian is said to do, they cannot also embrace their sins, but must aknowledge them and try to avoid sinful behavior kind of like being a proud adulterer, or a proud participant in an incestual relationship ,,, I think being PROUD of sinful behavior kind of lessons how much of a CHRISTIAN one can claim to be,,, but the final decision isnt mine and this is just a forum of opinions, consider this to be just my opinion |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Fri 08/13/10 10:35 PM
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with the gay thing... some gays believe in god and jesus but yet christains have this belief rather it be a chester or rapist..etc that as long as they accept jesus as their lord and savior they are going to heaven,so the old testament god says you shall not worship any god before me or whatever ways you want to type it's meaningless meaning...even my homeboy isaac newton questioned this one,so if a gay man says i accept jesus as my lord and savior does that mean he is going to heaven...even though he meaning god never produced women for adam and eves kids to keep the population going or rather its an abomination According to the New Testament, a person has salvation if that person confesses that Jesus is LORD and believes that God the Father has raised Jesus from the dead. Nowhere does the New Testament say that a person has to be a heterosexual in order to obtain salvation. When Jesus died on the Cross, he paid for the sins of heterosexuals and homosexuals alike. Thus, God’s gift of eternal life is available to both heterosexuals and homosexuals. So how are we who are Christians to respond to homosexuality? Answer: We ought to acknowledge that some people feel sexually attracted to members of the same gender. The origin of this feeling may be debated, but those with this feeling do not choose to have it. If we condemn this feeling, then we condemn ourselves for feeling the urge to engage in any sinful behavior. For example, if a married man feels sexually attracted to a woman other than his wife, then his feeling is no less sinful than the feeling of a homosexual man toward another man. Plenty of married Christian men feel sexually attracted to women other than their wives. Yet, the feelings that these men have are not considered to be bad enough for the men to be condemned. Should we condemn homosexual behavior? Answer: Only if we are willing to condemn our own sinful behaviors. A person does not have to engage in homosexual behavior in order to do something worthy of condemnation. We need to remember the words of the Apostle James: “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it” (James 2:10). Are we to say that homosexuals should receive the same humane treatment given to heterosexuals? Answer: Yes. We do not have to accept homosexual behavior in order to treat homosexuals humanely. Are we to focus attention on homosexual behavior while ignoring the weightier matters of the Bible, such as taking care of the poor (Matthew 25)? Answer: No. That would be a case of straining out the gnat and swallowing the camel. Finally, can a person be a both a homosexual and a Christian? Answer: Yes, because homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin. [Note: My statements above are from my book SOULHAVEN, which is not yet published.] Got a couple things to say bout this. With asking for forgiveness comes repentance, if no repentance is done then the asking for it is in vein. Forgiveness isn't truly being seek. ALL but one sin is equal, so would it really be much of truly seeking forgiveness if I stole a loaf of bread on Monday and asked forgiveness of it and did the same thing on Tuesday, Wednesday, and so on? No that would not truly be seeking forgiveness cause i would obviously not feel bad for doing what i did. Same with all sins. We know it's a sin to hit this guy upside the head, but he got me sooooo mad i just couple help myself, so i hit the crap out of him, then asked for forgiveness and repeated the same thing over again a week later, again the asking for forgiveness would be in vein cause again i truly wasn't seeking forgiveness of which i did. I said this to point out why homosexuals going to church is such an oxymoron, contradiction, and complete opposites. Would a homosexual go to a gathering of people revolting against homosexuals getting married to help out? No, this is basically the same thing as a homosexual going to church and claiming to be a Christian. ========================================== Finally, can a person be a both a homosexual and a Christian? Answer: Yes, because homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin. =========================================== No it's not, but being a homosexual and claiming to be a Christian would be the same as sitting there hitting the crap out of someone telling them you're so sorry for hitting them while you're pounding away on them. How can you truly seek forgiveness of something while you're continuing to do the same thing(s) over and over and over, even after asking forgiveness of that action? |
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I think Christians including homosexual Christians fail to realize what kind of danger they are doing not only to this life but to the life later in heaven.You can be a Christian and break every rule God and Jesus told you not to do every day of your life.You can confess your sins and your sins may be forgiven but does that mean that you will not have to answer to God one day for your actions despite having your sins forgiven.The bible clearly says we will be judged before we go to heaven.
I firmly believe that lives are cut short(including Christians)by disobeying God time and time again.It is clear that God or Jesus wants people to live a full life but it is also clear that God and Jesus will not bless and not help unrepentant sinner.Jesus may have had the company of former sinners but do you really think Jesus would keep company of a unrepentant sinner(such as a homosexual or prostitute)who Jesus told him or her time and time again to stop sinning?He would not.It is this reason Jesus said this statement. “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.” ( Mark 6:11). Cleary Jesus is saying that unbelievers and unrepantant sinners will face death worse that Sodom and Gomorrah for failing to hear and obey the bible. think about these verses. Proverbs 28:9; "One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination." John 9:31, "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him." Isaiah 59:2 says, "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear." “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. “I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven. Matthew 18:15-19 “Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.” (1 Timothy 5:20) “He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it… Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith.” (Titus 1:9, 13) :12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Matthew 9:9-13 KJV) |
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Edited by
wux
on
Sat 08/14/10 12:34 AM
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from a bi female I believe in christ as my lord and savior, but that is more than just a script or a quote to recite which saves you A: by believing in him, I have to believe in what he taught and I have to be always trying to live by the example he set and the words he preached as well as the laws instructed by his Father and Mine I love analogies so here is the closest I can come,,, If I understand and have knowledge of the police and their authority, that doesnt keep me out of jail, its only RESPECTING that authority that does that I think its similar with not only accepting Jesus and the authority of his word and the biblical word but respecting and adhering to it B: but I think its kind of like the constitution to many people, if it is an issue that isnt explicitly and simply explained in the bible, people will use that absence or confusion to defend their actions or to condemn others actions. Its cliche, but I really think the heart and soul have to be open to receive truth and know the difference as well as read the lessons that are in between the lines if you will. A: I believe in my father, too, but that does not mean at all that I have to believe what he says. "Believe in" means that you do have a belief that he exists, or that you have faith he can do something. When he told me that the Beatles made bad, ugly music, I did not believe him, though I believed in him. B: Your plea why we should follow the bible is a plea of desparation. If a text is written ambiguously, whose interpretation should I accept? Yours or mine? And why? If the two are not identical. Really. You excuse the Bible's bad read by saying you have to feel it with your heart. Well, I do EXACTLY that too. I feel the Bible with my heart, and in my heart. In my heart the Bible entices hatred, anger, and ugly, mean feelings. In your heart the Bible entices love and spiritual calm and high. Whose heart is lying, and whose is not? It is NOT possible to decide objectively. If we stay subjective, then there is no agreement. |
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Edited by
wux
on
Sat 08/14/10 12:33 AM
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No it's not, but being a homosexual and claiming to be a Christian would be the same as sitting there hitting the crap out of someone telling them you're so sorry for hitting them while you're pounding away on them. How can you truly seek forgiveness of something while you're continuing to do the same thing(s) over and over and over, even after asking forgiveness of that action? Maybe it ought to be God begging us to grant forgiveness for saying evil things like "homosexuality is evil". I think the people have spoken when they turn away from God in greater and greater numbers. They are saying, ney, giving Him an ultimatum, which reads, "change, or we won't come back to your fold." This is ludicrous to think that it's only man that is responsible to God. God is just as responsible to man, and if He falters, people leave his church, like in recent times. |
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A. I agree some believe in his existence, and some believe in not only his existence but his word
B.I dont plead with anyone to follow the Bible, I can only explain why I do. Many interpretations can come from similar information, but that does not make them all right....the time of proof will come and whomever is RIGHT will or wont know it, but it still wont change whether their interpretation was correct or not right is right, and accurate is accurate, although understanding has quite a grey area in between there will be no universal agreement,,,and thats ok too |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sat 08/14/10 12:38 AM
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from a bi female I believe in christ as my lord and savior, but that is more than just a script or a quote to recite which saves you A: by believing in him, I have to believe in what he taught and I have to be always trying to live by the example he set and the words he preached as well as the laws instructed by his Father and Mine I love analogies so here is the closest I can come,,, If I understand and have knowledge of the police and their authority, that doesnt keep me out of jail, its only RESPECTING that authority that does that I think its similar with not only accepting Jesus and the authority of his word and the biblical word but respecting and adhering to it B: but I think its kind of like the constitution to many people, if it is an issue that isnt explicitly and simply explained in the bible, people will use that absence or confusion to defend their actions or to condemn others actions. Its cliche, but I really think the heart and soul have to be open to receive truth and know the difference as well as read the lessons that are in between the lines if you will. A: I believe in my father, too, but that does not mean at all that I have to believe what he says. "Believe in" means that you do have a belief that he exists, or that you have faith he can do something. When he told me that the Beatles made bad, ugly music, I did not believe him, though I believed in him. B: Your plea why we should follow the bible is a plea of desparation. If a text is written ambiguously, whose interpretation should I accept? Yours or mine? And why? If the two are not identical. Really. You excuse the Bible's bad read by saying you have to feel it with your heart. Well, I do EXACTLY that too. I feel the Bible with my heart, and in my heart. In my heart the Bible entices hatred, anger, and ugly, mean feelings. In your heart the Bible entices love and spiritual calm and high. Whose heart is lying, and whose is not? It is NOT possible to decide objectively. If we stay subjective, then there is no agreement. And exactly how does it the bible entice hatred, anger, and ugly, mean feelings? God tells us to love each other and not to judge one another. That would mean to treat EVERYONE with the same love and respect. No difference from if they were a priest at a church or a mass murderer, we are to love ALL. So again can you reference something to teach me of this hatred you mention? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 08/14/10 12:38 AM
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No it's not, but being a homosexual and claiming to be a Christian would be the same as sitting there hitting the crap out of someone telling them you're so sorry for hitting them while you're pounding away on them. How can you truly seek forgiveness of something while you're continuing to do the same thing(s) over and over and over, even after asking forgiveness of that action? Maybe it ought to be God begging us to grant forgiveness for saying evil things like "homosexuality is evil". I think the people have spoken when they turn away from God in greater and greater numbers. They are saying, ney, giving Him an ultimatum, which reads, "change, or we won't come back to your fold." This is ludicrous to think that it's only man that is responsible to God. God is just as responsible to man, and if He falters, people leave his church, like in recent times. its another universal disagreement ,the parent child roles I believe my parents were responsible to provide my NEEDS and they did, I belive Gods responsibility ends at providing my NEEDS and he does anything above that (from family, friends, or God) is what I see as a privilege or a blessing and not an obligation I do believe this life is about God and that it is I who needs God and I realize others believe this life should be about them and that God needs them none of us will know till its too late to change it,,,but thats life,,, |
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Edited by
wux
on
Sat 08/14/10 12:44 AM
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right is right, and accurate is accurate I can go with your putting it that way. You want to believe what you believe, and therefore you do. You don't influence nobody else, and you don't allow others to influence you in this matter. That makes sense. Except it only makes sense when right is right, and accurate is accurate But when God accurately says something that is not right, like "I shalt smite thee, weewil persons, if you play with thy neighbour's weewee and take his weewoo in thy mouth in vain", then we have a formidable case of right being wrong, expressed very accurately by God, and that's when the Bible breaks down in matters of the heart. |
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right is right, and accurate is accurate I can go with your putting it that way. You want to believe what you believe, and therefore you do. You don't influence nobody else, and you don't allow others to influence you in this matter. That makes sense. Except it only makes sense when right is right, and accurate is accurate But when God accurately says something that is not right, like "I smite thee, weewil persons, if you play with thy neighbour's weewee and take his weewoo in thy mouth in vain." not sure when he said that,,,,,  |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Sat 08/14/10 12:47 AM
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No it's not, but being a homosexual and claiming to be a Christian would be the same as sitting there hitting the crap out of someone telling them you're so sorry for hitting them while you're pounding away on them. How can you truly seek forgiveness of something while you're continuing to do the same thing(s) over and over and over, even after asking forgiveness of that action? Maybe it ought to be God begging us to grant forgiveness for saying evil things like "homosexuality is evil". I think the people have spoken when they turn away from God in greater and greater numbers. They are saying, ney, giving Him an ultimatum, which reads, "change, or we won't come back to your fold." This is ludicrous to think that it's only man that is responsible to God. God is just as responsible to man, and if He falters, people leave his church, like in recent times. God falters no where, what God has said God does. If God says he will, he will. And so on and so on. There is nothing that falters about God. And on top of that, what God has done is perfect in everyway. No falters at all my friend. |
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"I smite thee, weewil persons, if you play with thy neighbour's weewee and take his weewoo in thy mouth in vain." not sure when he said that 1. In Leviticus 2. In the story of Gomorrh and Sodom My quotes I admit may be not exact transliterations of the chapters involved. |
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God falters no where, what God has said God does. If God says he will, he will. And so on and so on. There is nothing that falters about God I don't know where you get that. Is there a passage in the Bible that can corroborate with your story? Some instances exist where God does not do what he says He will. 1. Book of Job. - Describes God's failures to keep His promise. 2. Do only good. - A fact that is promised but does not happen, and therefore a fact that clearly speaks for itself and proves God fails to keep his promise. 3. Smite sinners. - A fact that is promised but does not happen, and therefore a fact that clearly speaks for itself and proves God fails to keep his promise. If you read the Bible carefully, you will find 5,659 instances in which God grossly fails his promises, and 434 instances in which God fails his promise in a mildmannered way. These are |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 08/14/10 12:54 AM
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we all will die, thats not wrong,,,,,thats the process
we have the choice of eternal life for our soul, according to the bible but because of our sinful nature, our flesh will die I dont see that as wrong,,,others do,,, The israelites were a chosen people who were held to restrictive standards , they had a culture and laws and certain 'crimes' were deemed worthy of death,, just like modern times, except their crimes also addressed crimes of the soul and not just the flesh,,,, that was the time they were in, they were to be obedient and they werent and they were given the consequences as were explained to them before they made their choice It was God who gave life and it is , in my eyes, right for him to have authority to take it back |
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God falters no where, what God has said God does. If God says he will, he will. And so on and so on. There is nothing that falters about God I don't know where you get that. Is there a passage in the Bible that can corroborate with your story? Some instances exist where God does not do what he says He will. 1. Book of Job. - Describes God's failures to keep His promise. 2. Do only good. - A fact that is promised but does not happen, and therefore a fact that clearly speaks for itself and proves God fails to keep his promise. 3. Smite sinners. - A fact that is promised but does not happen, and therefore a fact that clearly speaks for itself and proves God fails to keep his promise. If you read the Bible carefully, you will find 5,659 instances in which God grossly fails his promises, and 434 instances in which God fails his promise in a mildmannered way. These are Give us 1 example of this. God has never done of which you proclaim our father of having done. |
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Edited by
wux
on
Sat 08/14/10 01:02 AM
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This is ludicrous to think that it's only man that is responsible to God. God is just as responsible to man, and if He falters, people leave his church, like in recent times. its another universal disagreement ,the parent child roles I believe my parents were responsible to provide my NEEDS and they did, I belive Gods responsibility ends at providing my NEEDS and he does anything above that (from family, friends, or God) is what I see as a privilege or a blessing and not an obligation I do believe this life is about God and that it is I who needs God and I realize others believe this life should be about them and that God needs them none of us will know till its too late to change it,,,but thats life,,, I think it's a bit off what you're saying. To be accepted into the fold despite homosexuality is not a need like getting a meal or a drink or paying for your schooling. It is a need nevertheless, on the same magnitude as you NEED to feel God's love, as you NEED to believe in God, and therefore you choose to believe in Him, it is people's NEED to think their prayers will be answered. Without need there is no motivation to act. If anyone prays to God, they admit they NEED Him. So while you are right in a way, you are also wrong in a way. Have you ever given any thought to writing the Third Testament? :) <- smiley. You got the "ambiguity" and "misplaced references" and "mixed references" part down pat. |
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we all will die, thats not wrong,,,,,thats the process we have the choice of eternal life for our soul, according to the bible but because of our sinful nature, our flesh will die I dont see that as wrong,,,others do,,, The israelites were a chosen people who were held to restrictive standards , they had a culture and laws and certain 'crimes' were deemed worthy of death,, just like modern times, except their crimes also addressed crimes of the soul and not just the flesh,,,, that was the time they were in, they were to be obedient and they werent and they were given the consequences as were explained to them before they made their choice It was God who gave life and it is , in my eyes, right for him to have authority to take it back Sorry, MsHarmony, I can't see how this post relates to anything else we've written on this thread. It is random verbal rambling, it says nothing in essence, and it certainly does not answer my points. What is it that you were trying to say with this? |
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This is ludicrous to think that it's only man that is responsible to God. God is just as responsible to man, and if He falters, people leave his church, like in recent times. its another universal disagreement ,the parent child roles I believe my parents were responsible to provide my NEEDS and they did, I belive Gods responsibility ends at providing my NEEDS and he does anything above that (from family, friends, or God) is what I see as a privilege or a blessing and not an obligation I do believe this life is about God and that it is I who needs God and I realize others believe this life should be about them and that God needs them none of us will know till its too late to change it,,,but thats life,,, I think it's a bit off what you're saying. To be accepted into the fold despite homosexuality is not a need like getting a meal or a drink or paying for your schooling. It is a need nevertheless, on the same magnitude as you NEED to feel God's love, as you NEED to believe in God, and therefore you choose to believe in Him, it is people's NEED to think their prayers will be answered. Without need there is no motivation to act. If anyone prays to God, they admit they NEED Him. So while you are right in a way, you are also wrong in a way. Have you ever given any thought to writing the Third Testament? :) You got the "ambiguity" part down pat. I dont get where I was wrong, I stated that I need him, but he does not NEED me. I dont think I even mentioned homosexuality in that post,,, I think I take the word need in a different context than others, just like the word LOVE means different things amongst different people If I cant live without something, it is a need in the strictest sense of the word(air , water, food, rest) If I dont function well without something or someone it is a need in the more slang social context of the word( some people need coffee, some need alot of human contact, some need privacy) I am one who functions well as long as my basic needs are met, so I dont tend to believe in needing some specific person, or everyone elses acceptance, or even sex(that makes me odd girl out by itself,,lol) I need Gods love and the basics he provides me with, I wouldnt survive without the basics and I wouldnt function well without his Love, I wouldnt function well without the support of my actual FAMILY,,,,beyond these things, I have and do function well on my own. Did I function well before I had my children, yes,, therefore they are not someone I NEED< although they are someone I love dearly could my kids function well without me(or someone in my place) ,, no, because they dont have the skills or resources to function on their own,,therefore they do NEED their mom Did God function before he created me? yes, could I function well without him ,, NO ,,,,,this is just my opinion about NEED, and why its not always mutual but no I wouldnt bother the bible unless inspired of God to do so |
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we all will die, thats not wrong,,,,,thats the process we have the choice of eternal life for our soul, according to the bible but because of our sinful nature, our flesh will die I dont see that as wrong,,,others do,,, The israelites were a chosen people who were held to restrictive standards , they had a culture and laws and certain 'crimes' were deemed worthy of death,, just like modern times, except their crimes also addressed crimes of the soul and not just the flesh,,,, that was the time they were in, they were to be obedient and they werent and they were given the consequences as were explained to them before they made their choice It was God who gave life and it is , in my eyes, right for him to have authority to take it back Sorry, MsHarmony, I can't see how this post relates to anything else we've written on this thread. It is random verbal rambling, it says nothing in essence, and it certainly does not answer my points. What is it that you were trying to say with this? no problem, it was in response to thi 'But when God accurately says something that is not right, like "I smite thee, weewil persons, if you play with thy neighbour's weewee and take his weewoo in thy mouth in vain." and why I dont see it as something that is 'not right' |
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