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| Topic: Is Knowledge a Gift from Satan | |
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Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, eg., final sacrifice. Before Jesus was hung on the cross people sacrificed animals and such for forgiveness of their sins to gain pureness. They sacrificed something important and needed for payment of their sins and transgressions. And when one is forgiven of their sins/transgression they then become pure/innocent as a child. again it's the same "lust loophole" ...no child were pure or innocent because they were born of lust from the womb ...even God himself said that the children were tainted by their parents which is why God had no problem drowning children in The Great flood born of lust from the womb? How so? A married couple having children is not lust. Lust is only when the desire of a sexual relationship is with one you are not married to. A married couple are as one flesh, you can not lust after yourself. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 06/10/10 11:17 AM
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funches stated some claiming that Jesus is God would mean that the baby Jesus was omniscient and therefore have within him the knowledge of good and evil and therefore a human baby with such knowledge couldn't have been innocent nor pure Cowboy stated Why could he not have been innocent or pure? Knowledge isn't what makes people innocent or pure, it's what one has done with that knowledge. it was God himself that deem such knowledge as being impure or perhaps as a threat to his authority which is why he did not grant such knowledge to Adam and Eve Jesus used that knowledge to reek havoc in his father' temple with the money changers ...someone that was innocent and pure would not lose control of themselves by having a conniption fit and proceed to disrespect the temple of God The knowledge adam/eve gained from eating of the tree was God's plan. So they gained knowledge of the future and what was to come and happen. Adam/eve wasn't punished for specifically eating of the tree in the exact sense. They were punished for their disobedience to God when God told them not to eat of the tree. So then you are saying that God put the temptation of the tree there on purpose and it was his plan that Adam and Eve would disobey him and eat of the tree? That sounds like a plan of entrapment to me. Where in the Bible does it say that the knowledge from eating of the tree was God's plan or is that just your idea? Also, you are saying it is not the actual act or sin or crime that matters to God, just the obedience part. In other words God does not want people to think for themselves he wants them to just obey mindlessly. This sounds very suspicious and unreasonable to me and it is like training a nice dog to kill people even if he does not want to. Its just the obedience thing. That is, its having complete control over another person or animal. This makes your God is a tyrant who wants complete control over his followers and they dare not question him or disobey him. That's not suspicious to you? People who give over their free will and their power to THINK to a God that cannot see scare the hell out of me. |
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The knowledge adam/eve gained from eating of the tree was God's plan. if it was God's plan that Adam and Eve eat from the fruit and then punish them for carrying out that plan would only be an indication that there were never any "Free Will" and that God is evil .... it would also make Satan's role in this event as an attempt to warn and perpare the human race for what God had in store for them and that Satan only did what he was created to do...to be an Angel They weren't punished for carrying out God's plan. God's plan was not for them to eat of the fruit. God's plan was for us to live for eternity in the Garden of Eden. And how does that rule out free will? All free will meens is that we aren't a bunch of robots being literally controlled by God. We have the ability to do as God wants us to or not, free will is simple as that. But with every action there is a reaction *consequence* You do God's will and what he wants you to do, the consequence will be nothing but love and full of blessings. You do the opposite, the consequence is then opposite. |
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Those that accept Jesus are forgiven of the sins of Adam and Eve. The sacrifice of Jesus made original sin extinct. And everyone would be back in the garden of Eden if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning. That is what separates us from God, sin. again what you say can not be true or everyone would be back in The Garden of Eden....the fact that everyone is still on Earth suffering only proves that God has not forgiven those original sins if believers claim that Jesus rosed from the dead and is still alive then that would mean that Jesus sacrificed nothing..that is why everyone still have sins |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 06/10/10 11:21 AM
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The knowledge adam/eve gained from eating of the tree was God's plan. if it was God's plan that Adam and Eve eat from the fruit and then punish them for carrying out that plan would only be an indication that there were never any "Free Will" and that God is evil .... it would also make Satan's role in this event as an attempt to warn and perpare the human race for what God had in store for them and that Satan only did what he was created to do...to be an Angel They weren't punished for carrying out God's plan. God's plan was not for them to eat of the fruit. God's plan was for us to live for eternity in the Garden of Eden. And how does that rule out free will? All free will meens is that we aren't a bunch of robots being literally controlled by God. We have the ability to do as God wants us to or not, free will is simple as that. But with every action there is a reaction *consequence* You do God's will and what he wants you to do, the consequence will be nothing but love and full of blessings. You do the opposite, the consequence is then opposite. If that is your idea of "free will" I totally feel sorry for you. Do as I say and I will love you. Disobey me, and you die. Sounds like my X-husband. That's not free will, trust me Cowboy. You need to free yourself from that tyrant god that you believe in. He does not exist. He has no power over you that you do not give him. He is a figment of your imagination. You have been lied to. I hope you will learn the THINK FOR YOURSELF. |
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funches stated some claiming that Jesus is God would mean that the baby Jesus was omniscient and therefore have within him the knowledge of good and evil and therefore a human baby with such knowledge couldn't have been innocent nor pure Cowboy stated Why could he not have been innocent or pure? Knowledge isn't what makes people innocent or pure, it's what one has done with that knowledge. it was God himself that deem such knowledge as being impure or perhaps as a threat to his authority which is why he did not grant such knowledge to Adam and Eve Jesus used that knowledge to reek havoc in his father' temple with the money changers ...someone that was innocent and pure would not lose control of themselves by having a conniption fit and proceed to disrespect the temple of God The knowledge adam/eve gained from eating of the tree was God's plan. So they gained knowledge of the future and what was to come and happen. Adam/eve wasn't punished for specifically eating of the tree in the exact sense. They were punished for their disobedience to God when God told them not to eat of the tree. So then you are saying that God put the temptation of the tree there on purpose and it was his plan that Adam and Eve would disobey him and eat of the tree? That sounds like a plan of entrapment to me. Where in the Bible does it say that the knowledge from eating of the tree was God's plan or is that just your idea? Also, you are saying it is not the actual act or sin or crime that matters to God, just the obedience part. In other words God does not want people to think for themselves he wants them to just obey mindlessly. This sounds very suspicious and unreasonable to me and it is like training a nice dog to kill people even if he does not want to. Its just the obedience thing. That is, its having complete control over another person or animal. This makes your God is a tyrant who wants complete control over his followers and they dare not question him or disobey him. That's not suspicious to you? People who give over their free will and their power to THINK to a God that cannot see scare the hell out of me. -------------------- So then you are saying that God put the temptation of the tree there on purpose and it was his plan that Adam and Eve would disobey him and eat of the tree? That sounds like a plan of entrapment to me. ----------------------- God didn't put the "temptation". Only Satan "temps" us to disobey God's word ----------------------- Also, you are saying it is not the actual act or sin or crime that matters to God, just the obedience part. In other words God does not want people to think for themselves he wants them to just obey mindlessly ------------------------- So when you tell your kids not to do something, you punish them for the exactly and only the action? And or also for their disobedience? |
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Those that accept Jesus are forgiven of the sins of Adam and Eve. The sacrifice of Jesus made original sin extinct. And everyone would be back in the garden of Eden if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning. That is what separates us from God, sin. again what you say can not be true or everyone would be back in The Garden of Eden....the fact that everyone is still on Earth suffering only proves that God has not forgiven those original sins if believers claim that Jesus rosed from the dead and is still alive then that would mean that Jesus sacrificed nothing..that is why everyone still have sins No we are not back in the garden of eden because there is still evil on this earth. Again, if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning/disobeying then yes we would return to the Garden of Eden. |
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So when you tell your kids not to do something, you punish them for the exactly and only the action? And or also for their disobedience? I would not raise my children as a tyrant raises theirs. You just said that God did not punish them for eating the fruit he punished them for disobedience. You also said that it was "The knowledge adam/eve gained from eating of the tree was God's plan." So why would he punish them for doing what he had planned anyway? You said they were punished only for their disobedience. So all God cares about is obedience. Blind unquestioning obedience. I don't like people like that. Tyrants. None of that makes any sense. You may as well give up. You cannot defend this belief. It is all too illogical. |
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Those that accept Jesus are forgiven of the sins of Adam and Eve. The sacrifice of Jesus made original sin extinct. And everyone would be back in the garden of Eden if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning. That is what separates us from God, sin. again what you say can not be true or everyone would be back in The Garden of Eden....the fact that everyone is still on Earth suffering only proves that God has not forgiven those original sins if believers claim that Jesus rosed from the dead and is still alive then that would mean that Jesus sacrificed nothing..that is why everyone still have sins No we are not back in the garden of eden because there is still evil on this earth. Again, if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning/disobeying then yes we would return to the Garden of Eden. People who want to be free and think for themselves will never accept that kind of a tyrant for their God. You have been mislead. Find the true god within. |
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Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, eg., final sacrifice. Before Jesus was hung on the cross people sacrificed animals and such for forgiveness of their sins to gain pureness. They sacrificed something important and needed for payment of their sins and transgressions. And when one is forgiven of their sins/transgression they then become pure/innocent as a child. again it's the same "lust loophole" ...no child were pure or innocent because they were born of lust from the womb ...even God himself said that the children were tainted by their parents which is why God had no problem drowning children in The Great flood born of lust from the womb? How so? A married couple having children is not lust. Lust is only when the desire of a sexual relationship is with one you are not married to. A married couple are as one flesh, you can not lust after yourself. did Jesus masturbate or teach his believers to masturbate or do God approve of masturbation...would a believer masturbate knowing that God is watching them...if not it's because it is committing lust on yourself God himself had deem that lust is an Abomination....just because two people are married does not mean that they can break God's laws and commit heathenous acts of lust and spawn demon children from it if a married couple seek to have children then they have to find a way to have them without the inclusion of Lust ...it may be "hard" to do...er...no pun intended.....but hey...do it for Jesus |
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So when you tell your kids not to do something, you punish them for the exactly and only the action? And or also for their disobedience? I would not raise my children as a tyrant raises theirs. You just said that God did not punish them for eating the fruit he punished them for disobedience. You also said that it was "The knowledge adam/eve gained from eating of the tree was God's plan." So why would he punish them for doing what he had planned anyway? You said they were punished only for their disobedience. So all God cares about is obedience. Blind unquestioning obedience. I don't like people like that. Tyrants. None of that makes any sense. You may as well give up. You cannot defend this belief. It is all too illogical. God did not plan it though, and before you start harking on God's knowledge of how people will act in their lives also keep in mind it was not God's plan for them to eat of the tree. Free will is literally impossible to know ahead of time. Because if God knew every action we would take in our lives ahead of time their would be no need for our life and would make judgment pointless. |
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They weren't punished for carrying out God's plan. God's plan was not for them to eat of the fruit. God's plan was for us to live for eternity in the Garden of Eden. since God's plan did fail..... then he is clearly not omniscient and therefore not a God to make God omniscient again, then you would have to admit that his plan was that Adam and Eve take from the fruit |
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Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, eg., final sacrifice. Before Jesus was hung on the cross people sacrificed animals and such for forgiveness of their sins to gain pureness. They sacrificed something important and needed for payment of their sins and transgressions. And when one is forgiven of their sins/transgression they then become pure/innocent as a child. again it's the same "lust loophole" ...no child were pure or innocent because they were born of lust from the womb ...even God himself said that the children were tainted by their parents which is why God had no problem drowning children in The Great flood born of lust from the womb? How so? A married couple having children is not lust. Lust is only when the desire of a sexual relationship is with one you are not married to. A married couple are as one flesh, you can not lust after yourself. did Jesus masturbate or teach his believers to masturbate or do God approve of masturbation...would a believer masturbate knowing that God is watching them...if not it's because it is committing lust on yourself God himself had deem that lust is an Abomination....just because two people are married does not mean that they can break God's laws and commit heathenous acts of lust and spawn demon children from it if a married couple seek to have children then they have to find a way to have them without the inclusion of Lust ...it may be "hard" to do...er...no pun intended.....but hey...do it for Jesus very good point about masturbation but blindly mistaken. Yes masturbation is a sin of lust. But that is because what are you thinking of while masturbating? Are you thinking of how you're gonna pay the rent? Are you thinking about how great your life is and how much love is in it? No you would be thinking of someone sexually, and that right there is where the lust comes from. for 1 again when a couple are married it is alright to have a sexual relationship, how the heck else would we populate the planet? How would a woman get pregnant? Please think before you comment as to not make yourself look like a blind fool finding any little thing to pick at without thinking. |
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Those that accept Jesus are forgiven of the sins of Adam and Eve. The sacrifice of Jesus made original sin extinct. And everyone would be back in the garden of Eden if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning. That is what separates us from God, sin. again what you say can not be true or everyone would be back in The Garden of Eden....the fact that everyone is still on Earth suffering only proves that God has not forgiven those original sins if believers claim that Jesus rosed from the dead and is still alive then that would mean that Jesus sacrificed nothing..that is why everyone still have sins No we are not back in the garden of eden because there is still evil on this earth. Again, if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning/disobeying then yes we would return to the Garden of Eden. People who want to be free and think for themselves will never accept that kind of a tyrant for their God. You have been mislead. Find the true god within. I am free, I think for myself. I believe in a just God, not a kum ba ya God. |
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And how does that rule out free will? All free will meens is that we aren't a bunch of robots being literally controlled by God. sorry but the fact that Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden for using their Free Will only prove that they never had it |
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They weren't punished for carrying out God's plan. God's plan was not for them to eat of the fruit. God's plan was for us to live for eternity in the Garden of Eden. since God's plan did fail..... then he is clearly not omniscient and therefore not a God to make God omniscient again, then you would have to admit that his plan was that Adam and Eve take from the fruit God might have known they would and might have been his plan, I DO NOT know but i do know i will have the chance to ask. |
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And how does that rule out free will? All free will meens is that we aren't a bunch of robots being literally controlled by God. sorry but the fact that Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden for using their Free Will only prove that they never had it yes because they have the free will "ability" to do as such. Again with all actions there is a reaction *consequence* |
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No we are not back in the garden of eden because there is still evil on this earth. Again, if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning/disobeying then yes we would return to the Garden of Eden. Cowboy....wow I can't believe the stuff you are saying...you have already admitted that you can't stop sinning .....clearly you know that by saying that everyone needs to stop sinning is you being a hypocrite you can't even practice what you preach |
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No we are not back in the garden of eden because there is still evil on this earth. Again, if EVERYONE accepted God and stopped sinning/disobeying then yes we would return to the Garden of Eden. Cowboy....wow I can't believe the stuff you are saying...you have already admitted that you can't stop sinning .....clearly you know that by saying that everyone needs to stop sinning is you being a hypocrite you can't even practice what you preach nice try at trying to through that in my face funches. But i would be included in the everyone, i am a member of the human race lol. *round of applause for funches* |
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very good point about masturbation but blindly mistaken. Yes masturbation is a sin of lust. But that is because what are you thinking of while masturbating? Are you thinking of how you're gonna pay the rent? Are you thinking about how great your life is and how much love is in it? No you would be thinking of someone sexually, and that right there is where the lust comes from. Cowboy..so are you saying that if you are thinking about paying the rent while you are spanking the monkey....then it's not maturbation ....also who's to say that having to pay the rent isn't a turn on for some people ...perhaps they may ejaculate on the rent check knowing that a land lord they consider sexy will touch it .... I think all God sees is that you are grabbing Mr. Winky ...and you are doing so out of lust |
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