put that way, yes I had many errors. But the word many suggests a lot more than four

thats what you get for being a ground pounder

the Navy emphasizes independent thinking. They dont want mindless robots. They want people who can assess a situation and derive a solution. In the Navy, if a superior officer tells you to do someting stupid they WANT you to speak up if you disagree.

You better be right when you do of course or you get beat up (figuratively)

wrong Daniel (yay, knew you'd pull this)

The only thing I have proven is my point, we all have choices, I chose not to do as you suggest. Does that make me wrong?

You have not once proven 'me' wrong nor will you on this thread. You are offering suggestions and scenarios of which most of us have questioned, stated an opinion on, I do not agree with your way of thinking. If that makes me 'wrong' in your eyes, so be it.

the world needs ditch diggers too

"If you do not have the training to get a job where you are at, nobody will hire you where you are at because of your lack of training (or attitude or whatever), you are unwilling to move to locate employment, and you are asking for food stamps, and cash assistance (as an ongoing issue, not as a temporary consideration) then you need to be put into the army and given the training you need. "



Those are alot of ifs my friend. Let me start with where I agree. Temporary assistance should be temporary.That being said, in most states, it is just that. People are given assistance on a temporary basis and required (REQUIRED) to report that they are looking for work and record where they have looked. As far as moving to locate work, that is not a reality for people tied to obligations in one spot, such as children or leases or mortgages. Moving requires money, transportation, time, etc,,,,, punishing people for not having those resources is not a reasonable solution. Then there is this fact that so many people overlook, wanting a job does not attain a job. People dont just hire folks because they WANT to work. Many people right now are laid off and unemployed because of the economy. Because employers cant afford to hire new people. I think there is a sad assumption in this country that people on assistance or out of work CHOSE to be that way. Finding employment requires alot of factors to be in place and it isnt just an automatic because society says you should have a 'job.'

I apologize if you feel that I called you stupid, or implied it. However, not once have I ever called anyone here stupid, nor have I implied it. I HAVE outright asked if certain persons have received SPECIFIC education, and suggested that they did not. That does not in any way claim that that person is stupid, nor does it imply that.

Just for YOUR information, from the description yo gave of your English capabilities, it sounds as if you and I are fairly well balanced in that area. I am not going to sit here and dictate my accomplishments or capabilities however.

No many means a lot, 4 is more than 1, hence many etc...

see all open to choice of interpretation

Then what would all those college degreed enjineers do for a living? Drive a Taxi?

they do whatever they are qualified to do and whatever there is a need for. They are responsible to and for themselves

I'm not sure what unemployment for degreed graduates has to do with employment for non degreed people?

Daniel,

It's against the site's rules to get personally rude. It's not against the site's rules to pick somebody's words apart.

the military does not want or need anyone forced into service. Our military is a volunteer professional force. Everyone is there because they want to be

the military serves a purpose to fight and win, period. The military doesnt exist to serve as an employment service

I mentioned Taxi's because in Canada, Doctors who can't get jobs are driving Taxis.

Daniel made some good points ... along with some that are not so good. Part of what he described is a draft. We have had a draft for most of our country's existence (I think) and many think we should return to one now.

Putting all the military under one "name" is silly. They are jointly commanded by the President and the Joint Chiefs now. The separation of the branches allow focus on what each does best.

Training in the military could always be better but the theory now is to teach various jobs useful to the military. Electronics, heavy equipment operation and maintenance, aviation, etc., have excellent training in the military.

Forced induction into the military for collage age men not attending college is not a new idea. Doing the same thing for unproductive members of society gets kinda weird but the LA gangs might make good Marines.

Actually, now that I think about it, it seems like judges have sentenced various people to military duty as opposed to jail.

Then what would all those college degreed enjineers do for a living? Drive a Taxi?


Actually, I know quite a few people who have degrees who aren't working in their "field." For many, right now, it's the economy. For many, it's a choice. They found that what they trained for wasn't what made them happy so they do something else.

That's the beauty of this country, freedom of choice. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Who are we to tell anyone else what would make them happy? And if they aren't hurthing anyone, whose business is it? And, if everyone WAS college educated, who exactly would do those jobs that are necessary in this society that many/most "educated" people would feel were now beneath them?

And, again, who exactly pays for all this? College isn't free. (I realize this may have been addressed but again, I didn't read as I didn't want to get bogged into the negative?) If people are going to be forced into college, why should they have to pay for it? Of course, that would mean higher taxes.

And, Daniel, you didn't address the issue of communism? When the government starts deciding who does what, with no freedom of individual choice, that is one of the main components of communism. China does it. The USSR did it. And everyone was up in arms about it. Why is your proposal any different?

when I was in the Navy in the 90's I was on a guided missile cruiser attached to the Kitty Hawk (aircraft carrier) battle group. At one point the Kitty Hawk needed help on some equipment that I was familiar with so they flew me over to the Kitty Hwk for a couple of days

while I was there, they warned me not to go wandering the passageway. It wasn't safe. The Kitty Hawk already had Crips and Bloods and they prowled the passageways at night beating people up. I got off there as fast as I could

there was an incident in Dubai where the Crips and Bloods actually had a big fight on the streets of the city. The CO of the Kitty Hawk supsended liberty for the entire ship for the entire duration of the six month deployment as a result

I'm going to defend my mom here. She didn't go to college. She was a stay-at-home mom. She was very productive.

That's the beauty of this country, freedom of choice.

Well said Suz

first let me thank you for doing what so many apparently have not, and reading everything I post.

in regards to what you have said about most states assistance being temporary, yes the most talked about ones are (like cash assistance). But what a lot of people do not know or realize, is that most states, when your 4 or 5 years (general estimate) of time runs out on the TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) states have introduced new programs that continue to give you said cash because you are no longer qualified for TANF.

I have been through the welfare system many times in many states, and so I can tell you from witnessing first hand how many people out there (women and men both) simply go through the motions of looking for work. Ina lot of places they outright brag about it, right in front of their counselors, because they know the counselors will not kick them to the curb.

In regards to not moving somewhere due to obligations, I must first say the only obligation having a child represents is finding a way to provide for that child(ren) no matter what it takes. In regards to a mortgage, if you are on welfare, and looking to be there for any length of time, you are probably gonne be foreclosed on anyway, as you do NOT receive enough assistance to pay your mortgage and your bills, etc.

What I would do in this case is talk to your mortgage owner, and get permission to put the place up for sale if you find a job elsewhere and have to move. This way you have the option, and it shows your creditor that you are looking at all aspects. Or maybe get permission to rent it out if you move for a new job.
In reagrds to the cost of moving as well, most welfare programs offer assistance if you are moving outside of your city or county due to job acceptance, so it is not as expensive as all that.
And I have to ask, but where are you getting the idea that someone is being punished? To the best of my knowledge no one has suggested punishing anyone.
And I agree with you that there are a lot of people out there who are honestly doing their level best. However, there is still way too many people out there that play the system, and do so intentionally because they know how to do it.

I am not saying my idea is perfect, nor am I saying it doesnt need work or adjustment. I would be foolish to think either. However, for those people I described above who willfully do nothing to be productivein society, wanting to receive everything for free, something like this needs to be looked at.

yes, in the past it was legal for a judge to use their personal discretion and offer someone up in front of them a chance to go into the military in exchange for nothing on their record.

it waslater made illegal to do so, or so my understanding of it is, but it is a law that is overlooked, and some judges do still look the other way if someone suggests going into the military.