how do you figure you would be a slave to the military? You get out of highschool you go to college, get a degree and work as a productive citizen, instead of sitting on the side of the road begging for tax free money, if you do not like the idea of going into the military, or if you feel the military is not the right choice for you. You are not losing your choice to stay out of the military in any way whatsoever.

this is one of my biggest points that I can not emphasize enough. If you do not want one thing to happen, then choose the option that prevents it from happening. How hard is that to understand?

Its not hard to understand, but people should have more than an EITHER/OR option to become productive. That is kind of like bullying. Its as if someone said , you either eat what i feed you (that you have to pay for by the way), or Im gonna stand u in the street and have you hope a car doesnt hit you.

I understand the sentiment of wanting everyone to be productive, but I think you are missing the point that education and military arent the only ways that can be accomplished.

IF YOU REFUSE TO BE A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF SOCIETY YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY..YOU REALLY DID JUST SAY THAT...WTF...who gets to determine "productive." Will we nominate a panel to make such decisions. Daniel, it's not that I refuse to listen..we just don't agree and you keep attempting to change my mind by stressing your point. From my perspective you just have some deep rooted issues with those you feel are the losers of the world... and very concerned you may have to help someone you consider scum. It sounds more like you just want to punish...not improve.

are you a recruiter for the Army...

Yes I did say if you CHOOSE to refuse to be a productive member of society you need to leave. Our forefathers required everyone to contribute to the society at the time in some productive manner. And if they chose not to do so, they were exhiled from the community.

That isnt historically accurate There were homeless and jobless people in the Colonies.

last I heard the military wont accept drop outs. A minimum of a GED is required. They dont want illiterates. thay want people who can make informed reasoned descisions

maybe better would be to send the drop outs to something like the Civilian Conservation Corps and let em build park buildings and trails and stuff

some of the coolest state parks and monuments were built by the CCC

That isnt historically accurate There were homeless and jobless people in the Colonies.

Ok so here's a question for you Daniel. Let's say your system was in place and I had decided to go to college (as I stated previously on page 1 of how I racked up $70k in student loans within 3 years) .......would I fall under one of the people that gets kicked out of the country because I quit college due to the price? Would I then be offered a chance to go into the military to only have all my paychecks go straight to my student loans, only to go over seas and die for something I don't believe in and then my son gets to pay the rest MY student loans when he gets out of HS? Oh wait, but he only has the option to get an education through the military or go to college himself only to rack up thousands of dollars he also has to pay along side my debt?

Please answer this for me.

last I heard the military wont accept drop outs. A minimum of a GED is required. They dont want illiterates. thay want people who can make informed reasoned descisions

maybe better would be to send the drop outs to something like the Civilian Conservation Corps and let em build park buildings and trails and stuff

some of the coolest state parks and monuments were built by the CCC

so, daniel...who is going to pave our roads? serve us our food when we go out to eat...wash our dishes and change the trash? clean the toilets?

who stocks the shelves at the grocery store? makes our clothing? our tools, our automobiles?

who grows our vegetables and harvests them? who transports our goods from one area to another? who takes our money whenever we choose to stay at a hotel and makes certain our bed is turned down?

who milks the cows and shears the sheep? who brings the mail?

none of these jobs require a college education...and many would very well be passed up by those that have a degree. and yet, these people are major contributors to our society.

not everyone is cut out for college. i'm hugely for education, but this goes a bit overboard. it's just not for everyone...and if everyone had a degree, what then?

how do you figure you would be a slave to the military? You get out of highschool you go to college, get a degree and work as a productive citizen, instead of sitting on the side of the road begging for tax free money, if you do not like the idea of going into the military, or if you feel the military is not the right choice for you. You are not losing your choice to stay out of the military in any way whatsoever.

this is one of my biggest points that I can not emphasize enough. If you do not want one thing to happen, then choose the option that prevents it from happening. How hard is that to understand?

Yes I did say if you CHOOSE to refuse to be a productive member of society you need to leave. Our forefathers required everyone to contribute to the society at the time in some productive manner. And if they chose not to do so, they were exhiled from the community. Now I am NOT referring to those who can not make certain decisions due to health or limitations. But imo, the choice should not be available, to be lazy, unproductive, and living off of welfare (in any form)

As far as to who decides that you are unproductive, it is very apparant who contributes to society in some way, and who doesnt. If you do not want to contribute, then you should not be standing in the welfare lines (and I am not naming anyone specifically here), or receiving social security etc. You should not receive housing assistance, or any other kinds of assistance, unless you are willing to benefit society in some manner.

"Like it or not people, the military is a neccesary evil in this world. I respect everyones right to believe what they want, and to live their life accordingly. However, to belong as a part of society, you need to help out in some way to society. Are there other options besides just school or service? yes, I for one, just don't happen to agree with those options as much as I do with school or military.

This day in age, if you do not continue on with school, 9 out of 10 chances you are going to be in the poverty level and needing assistance of some sort because there are way too few jobs out there. Also int his day and age, if a country does not have a military, one as big and rich in resources as we are, then you can darn well expect other countries to come in and try to control us. So military is a neccessity as well. "


I will repeat,,the military is more than a job it is accepting the task of sacrificing your life whenever the commander in chief deems necessary. Noone should be FORCED to contribute that way. As to the degree, I believe you are mistaken. There are PLENTY of positions that dont require a degree. They arent the highest paying but most of them allow for promotion within the company as EXPERIENCE is gained. Military is a necessity, but so is a persons right to decide how to make their contribution in a FREE society. My ex made much more than me in his TRADE that he learned through apprenticeship trainig (not college). Many people are inventive enough to create their own businesses. The Internet has opened the door for all types of FREE market for services and products. To limit people to the choice of running up debt or risking their life is just NOT a reasonable solution.

So, unless someone has gone to college or gone into the military, they're going to be sitting on the side of the road begging for tax free money?

Are you saying that someone is not a productive member of society if they have not joined the military or obtained a college degree? You don't know anyone who has been able to make it in life without a degree? I know several who have been able to get jobs without a college degree and lead a productive life. I don't think you can base it on only getting a degree or going into the military.

First off, you yourself said you finished three years of colleger befor droppiing out. when you graduate high school, you should have to make the very simple choice of continuing on with school through at least your associates degree.

Nobody is going to rack up 70k in student loans in just two years. I don't are how many hours you are taking, I don't care what school you are going to. Yes school is getting more and more expensive, but to the best of my knowledge, there is not a single associates program in this country that costs 35k per year.

Now, assuming "my system" were in place, would you be required to continue on towards your bachelors degree, or go into the military? Hell no. You chose, plain and simple, to continue on with education, and decided at some point that you could not afford to continue any longer. I am not saying you were wrong in any part of that decision. I would probably have stopped long before the loans reached 70k. My point however, is that you are trying to claim you would not have a choice, when in reality you did choose. And your choice, in "my system" would have kept you from enlisting in the military.



Like it or not people, the military is a neccesary evil in this world. I respect everyones right to believe what they want, and to live their life accordingly. However, to belong as a part of society, you need to help out in some way to society. Are there other options besides just school or service? yes, I for one, just don't happen to agree with those options as much as I do with school or military.

This day in age, if you do not continue on with school, 9 out of 10 chances you are going to be in the poverty level and needing assistance of some sort because there are way too few jobs out there. Also int his day and age, if a country does not have a military, one as big and rich in resources as we are, then you can darn well expect other countries to come in and try to control us. So military is a neccessity as well.

Peple need to quit shirking their responsibilities to the community and step forward as much as they can, whether it is by going to college, joining the service, providing something that society needs, like say a farmer. That is one exception I would immediately grant to going to the military or to college. A farmer provides very basic needs to the community at large, and if I am not wrong here, most farmers grew up as kids on a farm, as did most o their families, thus they do not "need" an associates degree or anything else, because they are already in a position to provide for the community.