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Topic: 'Gay' groups: We have rights to your children!
Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:26 PM
Scientists Admit “No Gay Gene Found”


The concept of a gay gene was first made known by the following three studies. Major media outlets then reported that these studies proved homosexuality to be immutable, unchangeable – that people are born homosexual, born “gay”. This is ceaselessly promoted by PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays), GSA (Gay Straight Alliance), GLSEN (Gay and Lesbian Student Education Network) and other anti-ex-gay groups. Why? Because if homosexuality is innate, genetic and therefore unchangeable, only the bigoted or ignorant could contradict it in any way. Now the truth has prevailed and the flaws of the previous studies are revealed below:

LEVAY STUDY:

Simon LeVay, “A Difference in Hypothalamic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Man,” reported in Science magazine in August 1991, professed to have found a group of neurons in the hypothalamus (called INAH3) that appeared to be twice as big in heterosexual men than in homosexual men. LeVay theorized that this part of the hypothalamus has something to do with sexual behavior. Therefore, he concluded, sexual orientation is somehow biologically determined.


LeVay’s study utilized the brains of corpses, who were categorized by sexual orientation on the basis of mere circumstantial evidence. LeVay himself admits that he did not verify the sexual orientation of his control group. “Two of these subjects (both AIDS patients) had denied homosexual activity. The records of the remaining 14 patients contained no information about their sexual orientation; they are assumed to have been mostly or all heterosexual.” Source: LeVay, Simon (1991). A Difference in Hypothalamic Structure Between Heterosexual and Homosexual Men. Science 253:1036.


There is no proof that this group of neurons affects sexuality. Dr. Charles Socarides, Professor of Psychiatry at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City said, “The question of a minute section of the brain – sub-microscopic almost – as deciding sexual object choice is really preposterous. A cluster of the brain cannot determine sexual object choice. Source: Ankerberg, John F. The Myth That Homosexuality is Due to Biological or Genetic Causes. Chattanooga, TN.



LeVay himself stated, “It’s important to stress what I didn’t find. I did not prove that homosexuality is genetic, or find a genetic cause for being gay. I didn’t show that gay men are born that way, the most common mistake people make in interpreting my work. Nor did I locate a gay center in the brain. . . Since I look at adult brains, we don’t know if the differences I found were there at birth or if they appeared later.” Source: Nimmons (March, 1994) Discover, Sex and the Brain, Vol. 5, No. 3, p. 64-71.






BAILEY AND PILLARD STUDY:

John M. Bailey and Richard Pillard, “A Genetic Study of Male Sexual Orientation,” reported in the Archives of General Psychiatry, December 1991. They studied the prevalence of homosexuality among twins and adopted brothers. They found that 52% (29 pairs out of 56) of the identical twins were both homosexual; 22% (12 pairs out of 54) of the fraternal twins were both homosexual; and 11% (6 of 57) of the adoptive brothers were both homosexual. They also found 9% (13 of 142) of the non-twin biological siblings were both homosexual. The authors therefore concluded that there is a genetic cause to homosexuality.


The biggest flaw is the interpretation of the researchers. Since about 50% of the identical twins were not homosexual, we can easily conclude that genetics does not play a major part in their sexual orientation. If it had, then 100% of the twins should be homosexual since identical twins have the same genetic make-up. We might just as easily interpret the findings to mean that environmental influences caused their homosexuality. Biologist Anne Fausto Stirling of Brown University stated, “In order for such a study to be at all meaningful, you’d have to look at twins raised apart. It’s such badly interpreted genetics.” Source: Gelman, David, et al. (Feb. 24, 1992). Born or Bred? Newsweek 46.


This was not a random sample, as the twins who volunteered were solicited through advertisements in homosexual newspapers and magazines as opposed to general periodicals. Therefore, the subjects were more likely to be homosexual. In addition, the ads asked readers about their brothers; although the ads wanted gay men to call in regardless of the brother’s sexual orientation, readers with gay brothers would have been more likely to participate than men with straight brothers. A straight man with a gay twin who had read the ad might have felt that his own sexual orientation was suspect. He may have been threatened by the study, and refused to participate in it. Conversely, if identical twins are both gay and “out,” they might have found the study useful and have been eager to volunteer. Source: Bereano, Phil, (April 1, 1997). The Mystique of the Phantom “Gay Gene,” Gay Community News.


The most telling statistics found only 9.2% of the non-twin biological brothers were also homosexual, even though they shared the same degree of genetic likeness as fraternal twins. Source: Hidden Agendas Produce Biased Interpretations, Physician, July/August 1992.


Dr. Bailey stated, “There must be something in the environment to yield the discordant twins.” Source: Gelman, David, et al, (1992). Born or Bred? Newsweek 46.


HAMER STUDY:

Dean Hamer, et al., of the National Institutes of Health, “A Linkage between DNA markers on the X Chromosome and Male Sexual Orientation,” reported in Science magazine, July 1993. The media reported that the “gay gene” was discovered as a result of this study. The researchers studied 40 pairs of homosexual brothers and suggested that some cases of homosexuality are linked to a specific region on the X chromosome (Xq28) inherited from the mother to her homosexual son. Thirty-three pairs of brothers shared the same pattern variation in the tip of one arm of the chromosome. Hamer estimated that the sequence of the given genetic markers on Xq28 is linked to homosexuality in 64% of the brothers.

There was no control group. This is poor scientific methodology. Hamer and associates failed to test the heterosexual brothers. What if the heterosexual brothers had the same genetic markers? Source: Cohen, Richard (2000). Coming Out Straight: Understanding and Healing Homosexuality, Chapter 2.
One of Hamer’s fellow research assistants brought him up on charges, saying that he withheld some of the findings that invalidated his study. The Office of Research Integrity of the Department of Health and Human Services is investigating Hamer. (To date, they have not released the results of this investigation.) Source: (1995) NIH “Gay Gene” Study Questioned. Science 268:1841.
A Canadian research team using a similar experimental design (This study used 52 pairs of gay siblings from 48 families. Hamer’s research used 40 homosexual brother pairs.) was unable to duplicate the findings of Hamer’s study. Source: Rice, G., Anderson, C., Risch, N., Ebers, G. (1995) Male Homosexuality: Absence of Linkage to Microsatelite Markers on the X Chromosome in a Canadian Study. Presented at the 21st Annual Meeting of Sex Research. Provincetown, MA.
Hamer states, “These genes do not cause people to become homosexuals. . . ultimately, it is the environment that determines how these genes will express themselves.” Source: Time, April 27, 1998, p. 60-61.


CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS CONCERNING DEAN HAMER STUDY:

1993-Hamer announces there is a “gay gene,” as reported in Science magazine.

1993-Hamer attends a November 21, PFLAG meeting in Maryland: According to an eyewitness account by reporter Peter LaBarbera, Hamer told the audience that he was pleased with the media coverage. Hamer said, “If you tell the press what to write about a scientific study, they’ll write it.” He added that he told reporters that his study’s findings show that sexual orientation is like being “left-handed,” and the reporters obliged him: “That’s what I told them to say, and they said it.” Source: Peter L. LaBarbera, “’Born Gay’ Researcher Explodes at LR,” Lambda Report on Homosexuality, December-January 1994, p. 17.

1994-The Office of Research Integrity of the Department of Health and Human Services investigates Hamer for alleged fraud in his gay gene study.

1998-Hamer acknowledges that there is no “gay gene.”


In response to these facts, PFLAG has created a booklet entitled “Why Ask Why?” which admits that: “To date, no researcher has claimed that genes can determine sexual orientation. No human behavior, let alone sexual behavior, has been connected to genetic markers to date. . . sexuality, like every other behavior, is undoubtedly influenced by both biological and societal factors.” Yet, even with this knowledge, PFLAG continues to promote the notion that homosexuality is genetic. A quote from their “Be Yourself” booklet states, “Some people are gay and some are straight just as some people have blue eyes and some people have brown eyes.”

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:28 PM
Saying there is scientific proof of people being born to Homesexuality just aint so!

no photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:36 PM

I have always looked at someone being gay as a mental disorder.One of the biggest lies I constanly hear is how someone was born that way.I don't believe that for a second.If you are born gay then you are saying you are incapable of loving someone from the opposite sex.Also if that is true how do you explain the millions of people who were gay and are now straight who said the same thing?I have found that the majority of the time someone who is gay is gay because

1.)They were in bad or abusive relationships and they felt like the same thing would happen to them again.

2.)They were lonely for a long period of time,gave up hope out of desperation and thought dating someone from the same sex was their only hope.


Excuse me Thomas, that was so simple minded. If you are not gay you wouldn't have a clue why some one was born gay 'or' chose it.

Besides, do you seriously think gays care anymore how some of you think? After decades of being called every name in the book, do you seriously think in this day and age we bloody care what someone like you thinks?

The good news here is this. No matter how people try to make us outr to be abnormal etc. Every day people find out first hand that we are no different then they are in what we want for our lives and our families. That beats 'all' the BS and will more in the future as people begin to see the truth, not accept the propaganda of the Right and the anxieties of those that know nothing about us.

It might take a few more centuries but hey one day just the fact that some of these distorted ideas existed will be a shocker to future generations.


Winx's photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:40 PM
I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:46 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Thu 05/07/09 10:48 PM

I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.





How old was she when this look started?

no photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:49 PM

Saying there is scientific proof of people being born to Homesexuality just aint so!


Well I never said that but frankly the fact that we 'exist' is proof enough for me. And we have always existed, but some folks just love being superior. No skin off my nose, my life has been great, despite never having met people that had such a difficult time with it.

Some of those people mentioned in your list of studies aren't exactly unbiased. Frankly I just don't care anymore, the new generations will do far more than ours was able to do..

no photo
Thu 05/07/09 10:53 PM

There are many,many,studies including recent ones that shows a gay persons life span is typically 43 years.


Wrong again, unless my being gay just doesn't count, your are wrong. I am living proof that is wrong, and there are many more like me. Sure if you exposed yourself to unsafe sex and died of and std or aids, than that might have an affect on your longevity, but that goes for straights too.

Better luck next time.

no photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:01 PM


I have found that the majority of the time someone who is gay is gay because

1.)They were in bad or abusive relationships and they felt like the same thing would happen to them again.

2.)They were lonely for a long period of time,gave up hope out of desperation and thought dating someone from the same sex was their only hope.


Hmmmmm....

I wonder exactly how you have 'found' this? Was it by asking all of those people to whom you are referring, or by listening to someone else who did not bother to ask them either?

noway





I found that out by living in Seattle for nearly 12 years which has the second highest gays living in that city in the nation.Needless to say newspapers,public TV,local news and other sources report on the gay issues very often.I have also met a great deal of people from all walks of life including the gays during various events from protests,public hearings,co-workers,and other public places.I also have dated three women who were previous bi-sexual,and my ex girlfriend who I dated for over 3 years was a lesbian previously for 6 years.


If your exgirlfriend dated you, Thomas, then she was a very confused Lesbian, or not a lesbian at all, maybe bisexual, or maybe just experimenting. Or maybe you're really a woman and your just busting our chops?.. but I can tell you that you really didn't learn much by living there.

no photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:07 PM


Oh please!!! My own brother couldn't handle how society treated gays so he married and has been married for years to a woman that doesn't share sex with him or he with her.

Others find out later that they were actually bisexual not gay alone, so they found it easy to go straight, well of course they would.

Gays that are gay are going to stay gay. Those that are confused and then doubly confused by ex gay programs will do whatever the group wants them to do. The feel good now. Well hell that's great, go straight, so what? If that is what makes you happy why then turn around and be against people that are gay and have no intention of changing or wanting to change.

Please come up with something better than Xgay nonsense.

Winx's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:11 PM


I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.



How old was she when this look started?


Before 5 years old.

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:11 PM


Saying there is scientific proof of people being born to Homesexuality just aint so!


Well I never said that but frankly the fact that we 'exist' is proof enough for me. And we have always existed, but some folks just love being superior. No skin off my nose, my life has been great, despite never having met people that had such a difficult time with it.

Some of those people mentioned in your list of studies aren't exactly unbiased. Frankly I just don't care anymore, the new generations will do far more than ours was able to do..


I've read where you said you werent born that way before.
So what are you talking about now!

So homosexuals exist, so do lots of other lifestyles.

Some people are racist all their life. Does that mean they were born that way? NO!

Some people chose to do drugs. Were they born that way? NO

Some beat women their whole lifes, or their children suffer neglect or molestation at home.
Were these people born that way? NO!

I mean I can move away from these mountains, I have many times, and yet long for them from my soul. Does that mean I was born like that? NO, I was born in Fla.

I really dont care if someone choose to be gay, or if the environment they grew up in made them gay!
It's their choice, I just wished they would quit with the false claims of scientific evidence and quit trying to shove their choice on the rest of us!

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:16 PM
Edited by Fanta46 on Thu 05/07/09 11:26 PM



I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.



How old was she when this look started?


Before 5 years old.


At 5 yrs old a human doesn't even exhibit sexual behavior or feelings.
Ive known many girls growing up who preferred male activities. We called them TOM BOYS.

no photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:17 PM

Here's one for you thomas...I am incapable of loving someone of the opposite gender in that way. I was born gay, I have never felt that way about a woman, not once in my entire life. I have loved women just was never in love with them. I can talk to women all the time and not get one ounce of interest in them. Most women are just friends to me, the ones that aren't are my family.

I can promise you that I as well as many of the gay men I know will live past 43. This includes the men I know that are 50+. More than likely if a gay person does not live past 43 it's due to an outside influence.

I was not your typical little boy growing up, I preferred to play with the girls, I couldn't stand sports (at least till high school and then I only participated cuz some of the guys in my class were HOT!!!), I played house willingly, my little pony, care bears, cabbage patch kids.....sound like a normal little boy? I did have my x-men comics and my transformers but for he most part I played with things that girls normally played with.

I had a wondeful friendship with Lindyy, we didn't agree on everything but we had a healthy respect for each other. I miss her somedays lol.

Now while this may not hold true for all cases, I was born this way. For many years my parents tried to get me interested in the things other boys did only times i ever was, was soccer and video games. I hate to burst your bubble but some people are, in fact, born that way. The ones that choose it should be slapped silly because it's not a lifestyle I would have chosen yet I am dealing with it.

My mother accepts me for who I am as does the rest of the family as far as most other people are concerned i could care less what they think about it. I have made some wonderful friends on this site, including some christian people that accept me as I am. they also accept that i do not buy into the whole god thing. I was born to be...me...and that is all i can be whether people like it or not.



(The ones that choose it should be slapped silly because it's not a lifestyle I would have chosen yet I am dealing with it.)

This line confuses me. What is wrong with people that choose it? If gays want to be accepted they can't very well exclude people that make a conscious choice can they? I mean if you are saying there is nothing wrong with being gay, then choosing it shouldn't be a problem.

The RIGHTEOUS among us might just have brainwashed you after all with the notion that one can't be born gay it's a choice and there for should be avoided. flowerforyou

I am not 'dealing' with being gay. I am gay, and I am no one's victim or anyones punching bag. I am gay and i am happy to be gay, there's no pain involved as with 'dealing' with it.

Did I get you wrong? If I did I apologize but that really weirded me out.. LOL

yellowrose10's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:19 PM
fanta.....didn't you get the memo???? i am to blame laugh

Winx's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:19 PM




I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.



How old was she when this look started?


Before 5 years old.


At 5 yrs old a human doesnt even exhibit sexual behavior or feelings.
Ive known many girls growing up who preferred male activeties. We called them TOM BOYS.



She looked like a boy early and never quit. She wasn't a tomboy. She just didn't play with dolls. She didn't do sports either.

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:25 PM




I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.



How old was she when this look started?


Before 5 years old.


At 5 yrs old a human doesn't even exhibit sexual behavior or feelings.
Ive known many girls growing up who preferred male activities. We called them TOM BOYS.



I have many cousins, brothers, and sisters.

One of my girl cousins used to play ball, war games, football, etc with us all the time.
If you had suggested that she go and play with a doll instead she would whoop you. Mean I tell you!

Today she is a Mother of 6 and happily married.
She would still rather go hunting or fishing than go shopping, but she's not gay!

Sometimes we joke that her husband is though! LOL
He's not, but he acts more feminine than her! laugh laugh laugh

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:28 PM





I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.



How old was she when this look started?


Before 5 years old.


At 5 yrs old a human doesnt even exhibit sexual behavior or feelings.
Ive known many girls growing up who preferred male activeties. We called them TOM BOYS.



She looked like a boy early and never quit. She wasn't a tomboy. She just didn't play with dolls. She didn't do sports either.


Maybe she just couldnt get a boyfriend and turned to women for sexual relief???
At 5 yrs old she had no idea about sexual feelings!

Winx's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:29 PM






I have a female 2nd cousin. She looked butch since she was very young. She dressed like a boy. Her hair was like a boy. Her sister was the opposite. She was girly and played with dolls. The other sister would not play with girl toys. I was naive and didn't know why. She eventually told me that she was gay. Looking back I can see that she was born that way.



How old was she when this look started?


Before 5 years old.


At 5 yrs old a human doesnt even exhibit sexual behavior or feelings.
Ive known many girls growing up who preferred male activeties. We called them TOM BOYS.



She looked like a boy early and never quit. She wasn't a tomboy. She just didn't play with dolls. She didn't do sports either.


Maybe she just couldnt get a boyfriend and turned to women for sexual relief???
At 5 yrs old she had no idea about sexual feelings!


She's gay, Fanta. She's only been with women. It was obvious from the get go.

Fanta46's photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:32 PM


Here's one for you thomas...I am incapable of loving someone of the opposite gender in that way. I was born gay, I have never felt that way about a woman, not once in my entire life. I have loved women just was never in love with them. I can talk to women all the time and not get one ounce of interest in them. Most women are just friends to me, the ones that aren't are my family.

I can promise you that I as well as many of the gay men I know will live past 43. This includes the men I know that are 50+. More than likely if a gay person does not live past 43 it's due to an outside influence.

I was not your typical little boy growing up, I preferred to play with the girls, I couldn't stand sports (at least till high school and then I only participated cuz some of the guys in my class were HOT!!!), I played house willingly, my little pony, care bears, cabbage patch kids.....sound like a normal little boy? I did have my x-men comics and my transformers but for he most part I played with things that girls normally played with.

I had a wondeful friendship with Lindyy, we didn't agree on everything but we had a healthy respect for each other. I miss her somedays lol.

Now while this may not hold true for all cases, I was born this way. For many years my parents tried to get me interested in the things other boys did only times i ever was, was soccer and video games. I hate to burst your bubble but some people are, in fact, born that way. The ones that choose it should be slapped silly because it's not a lifestyle I would have chosen yet I am dealing with it.

My mother accepts me for who I am as does the rest of the family as far as most other people are concerned i could care less what they think about it. I have made some wonderful friends on this site, including some christian people that accept me as I am. they also accept that i do not buy into the whole god thing. I was born to be...me...and that is all i can be whether people like it or not.



(The ones that choose it should be slapped silly because it's not a lifestyle I would have chosen yet I am dealing with it.)

This line confuses me. What is wrong with people that choose it? If gays want to be accepted they can't very well exclude people that make a conscious choice can they? I mean if you are saying there is nothing wrong with being gay, then choosing it shouldn't be a problem.

The RIGHTEOUS among us might just have brainwashed you after all with the notion that one can't be born gay it's a choice and there for should be avoided. flowerforyou

I am not 'dealing' with being gay. I am gay, and I am no one's victim or anyones punching bag. I am gay and i am happy to be gay, there's no pain involved as with 'dealing' with it.

Did I get you wrong? If I did I apologize but that really weirded me out.. LOL


You just cant accept facts.
Haven't Ive heard you say many times that you werent born gay?
Should I look the posts up?

no photo
Thu 05/07/09 11:32 PM


I have to laugh at the straight people that say "you aren't born gay" They couldn't possibly know as they aren't gay so how would they know what it's like to be gay?

This has gotten so far off topic it should probly be locked or something lol



Since the majority of people are not born gay and even fewer gays claim to be born gay we must assume it is a medical condition.What do we call this medical condition of being born gay?Nothing.There is none.You want to know why?Because being born gay does not exist.Even if there was such a condition how would a doctor treat it?Put him in a room with a bunch of strippers?Even if this was a medical condition are you going to tell me that one day a man is gay and the next day he changes his mind and dates the opposite sex?

There are many medical conditions people are born with such as down syndrome,Autism,Hemophilia,and others.So far I have yet to hear of a doctor saying this baby was born gay.It's a ridiculous theory and the only people who buy it is the gays and the people who support their cause.

I also agree we need to get back on topic.I posted this topic because I think parents should have the choice to decide what a child learns or doesn't learn in school.


(Since the majority of people are not born gay we must assume that it's a medical condition.)

What are you a scientist?.. oh wait, you assume it because most are not born gay.. That's right, you don't even need to be educated to come up with that one. And How is it that you would even have a clue how man gays believe they are NOT born gay as apposed to choosing? I highly doubt your are running a survey of your own, or that you would even bother.

Do you really think all gays are 'accounted for' in a society, full of people like you, that ASSUME, when you really have no clue whatsoever? Not all gays will even admit they are gay for very good reasons, so not one knows that answer, not you not anyone.

Heres the problem with your logic, if we can call it that. If we have not 'proved' that gays are born gay, than we can safely assume that we also have not 'proved' they were NOT born gay as well.

I won't even bother with the rest.

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