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| Topic: Secession....view points please... | |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 04/17/09 09:49 PM
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The Cherokee were the first tribe to ever see Europeans and the first Indians ever seen by the Europeans!
It was almost 250 yrs before Columbus came to America! |
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My great garndparents on my moms side were Cherokee. Maybe that is why I am so not for war. I have done research on them. It was a sad read. I used to be ashamed to be the blood of the Cherokee or any Indian nation. The stigma was shame. I no longer feel that. I am proud to let it be known that I am who I am. Fanta...have you Indian in you? Kat Be very very proud to be a native indian!!! Be very sad how the Europeans and how this country was established taking away the freedoms, lives, and dying culture away from you. I visit some natives here in florida where only 500 speak the language. Most of the elders, who I hang out with, share their history with me on how many were forced to become christians rather they liked it or not. Their families had no choice in the matter or die or be imprisoned. They still have a sign just off their land that reads "Beware! Savage Land!" These are Seminole natives with great hearts, immense wisdom, and much spiritual strength in the history. History that I think isn't taught in the normal class room. That being said, I think that alot of history that is being taught in school is distorted in many ways. The Seminole were part of the Cherokee Nation I believe! I am not sure about that, you might be right. I do know that the Seminole that lived in the Everglades resisted the Americans and won their battle. Afterall, they lived on this continent for 12,000 years or longer. I am happy they won. And in the end the US had no choice but to accept their pressence and granted them their land, like they had a choice in the matter? The natives down here are called the Unconquered Seminoles. Here is a website on their history http://funandsun.com/1tocf/seminole/semhistory.html |
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[quote} Actually I just watched the other day on natives and it was horrible to tell you the truth of how Europeans treated them after they helped them survive the winter seasons. It was in the early 1600's and it was up in Massachussets when this happened. The chief I can't remember, but his son was known as Chief Phillip. I know sounds weird, but they called him that. He tried to reclaim his land through force by gathering tribes. The English of course converted many indians at the time and had them fight for them the wars against this chief. After they caught this chief phillip they stuck his head on a pole to warn all others natives to leave the europeans alone. The indians (mohawks) at the time then were also let go and those who converted to christianity where set on a island in the winter to die. Concerning the Cherokee? Does this mean if they hold this deed they are Cherokee and not American Citizens. They are their own nationality without having to obey American laws? No! They have dual citizenship! They are a Nation within a Nation! Very cool! I am happy for them. I mean that is the least they should get after what they went through. |
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 The entire episode of Hardball with Chris Mathews today was about this (phony)Texas secession issue. Its a fairly reliable show. If you would like to know more about this issue then maybe you could catch it. It will back up everything I have said about this issue.
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Sorry Krupa for hijacking your thread with the natives. I should create a new thread for that. Your idea for claiming your own land is not a bad idea. Buy 100 acres of land, build a fence around it, and call it "Krupa Land".
and there you go! peace, love, stability, and productivity should arise to the opportunity. I mean that is pretty much what everyone did when they came over here afterall. Just take land and live on it. Does it make it right, well I will let you decide on that. |
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But its been a great thread discussion Krupa
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Women had an equal voice in the affairs of the tribe. The Cherokee was a matriarchy.
They would trace their bloodlines throught the mothers family. They couldn't marry within their own tribes, but to members of outside tribes. Kat |
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Edited by
Winx
on
Fri 04/17/09 09:54 PM
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Well as far as I understand there are thousands of native tribes each with different names. So this would be a lifetime endeavor indeed, but I do fascinate myself with it, as of the wild west. lol I mean my family never migrated to the states. We pretty much sticked it out in Europe. I would be the first to live here because of my wife's family. I know the Germans didn't really claim any land here, but I know many migrated here in the 17 and 1800's seeking a new beginning. There are alot of German ancestories here, if not as big as the Irish and perhaps the Italian's at the time. I am still conflicted on how this country was established. I mean just how a whole culture is practically wiped out. I mean the younger generation primarily speak English and are American. They don't speak their original tongue anymore, primarily are Christians, and go to schools learning American history like you guys did. They just seemed to accept it that they are a conquered people and have no choice in the matter. It is sad actually how it happened and I see it in the faces of the elders more then the young when I go to the Miccussokee Tribe of Indians on weekends. Many Germans came to St. Louis. We have an area that is known as Dutchtown and Scrubby Dutch. The high school in that area were the Mighty Dutchmen. |
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Women had an equal voice in the affairs of the tribe. The Cherokee was a matriarchy. They would trace their bloodlines throught the mothers family. They couldn't marry within their own tribes, but to members of outside tribes. Kat No Kat they had 7 clans. They couldnt marry within their own clan! |
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Uh oh...sorry krupa. I got carried away.
How was the chat? Secession...hmmmmm Kat |
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Women had an equal voice in the affairs of the tribe. The Cherokee was a matriarchy. They would trace their bloodlines throught the mothers family. They couldn't marry within their own tribes, but to members of outside tribes. Kat No Kat they had 7 clans. They couldnt marry within their own clan! [/quote Oops..that is what I meant. I said tribe, I meant clan. Sorreeeee |
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Edited by
Fanta46
on
Fri 04/17/09 09:56 PM
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The seven clans of the Cherokee Indians are, Bird, Paint, Deer, Wolf, Blue, Long Hair, and Wild Potato.
They are still that way here in the Eastern Band! Very Traditional! |
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Edited by
smiless
on
Fri 04/17/09 10:03 PM
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Well as far as I understand there are thousands of native tribes each with different names. So this would be a lifetime endeavor indeed, but I do fascinate myself with it, as of the wild west. lol I mean my family never migrated to the states. We pretty much sticked it out in Europe. I would be the first to live here because of my wife's family. I know the Germans didn't really claim any land here, but I know many migrated here in the 17 and 1800's seeking a new beginning. There are alot of German ancestories here, if not as big as the Irish and perhaps the Italian's at the time. I am still conflicted on how this country was established. I mean just how a whole culture is practically wiped out. I mean the younger generation primarily speak English and are American. They don't speak their original tongue anymore, primarily are Christians, and go to schools learning American history like you guys did. They just seemed to accept it that they are a conquered people and have no choice in the matter. It is sad actually how it happened and I see it in the faces of the elders more then the young when I go to the Miccussokee Tribe of Indians on weekends. Many Germans came to St. Louis. We have an area that is known as Dutchtown and Scrubby Dutch. The high school in that area were the Mighty Dutchmen. Ha the Mighty Dutchmen. Yes they were mighty indeed with their trading. My goodness where they merchants of their time! Yes alot of Europeans came over to try to live a better life. That is true. Now it seems less come from over since Europe is doing fairly well in most parts of the continent. It seems you have Asia and Latin America as the next great migration happening now. I already have my child learning Mandarin  She already speaks German, English, and Spanish 
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The seven clans of the Cherokee Indians are, Bird, Paint, Deer, Wolf, Blue, Long Hair, and Wild Potato. They are still that way here in the Eastern Band! Very Traditional! Gosh I am missing so much. I wish I was over there now learning this culture. Taking pictures like the Japanese always do when they visit countries, and doing somekind of dance in a outfit making my daughter laugh at my attempts What a great culture. I really enjoy their spiritual wisdom. I posted often in the religious thread, almost a half a year spiritual quotes from all kinds of native tribes. I think it is good they are traditional with their culture. They should continue to teach the children their culture, language, and history and never be ashamed of it. |
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Women had an equal voice in the affairs of the tribe. The Cherokee was a matriarchy. They would trace their bloodlines throught the mothers family. They couldn't marry within their own tribes, but to members of outside tribes. Kat You see I like that the Women had a equal voice. Very good
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We had almost unlimited European immigration during the Industrial Revolution because we needed skilled laborers! They came legally and the numbers were restricted when the country's population became larger than there was work available.
The Europeans obey the immigration laws. Most of those coming from the South do so illegally and many simply sneak across the border through the desert. Some come on a visitation visa to see family and never leave! Europe is suffering more from the recession than America and the cost of living is much higher, but they are unable to just walk across our border in the large illegal numbers the Latinos do! |
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The seven clans of the Cherokee Indians are, Bird, Paint, Deer, Wolf, Blue, Long Hair, and Wild Potato. They are still that way here in the Eastern Band! Very Traditional! Those clan names are spiritual. Kat |
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I think it might be more practical to annex my three acres and declare my property an independant nation...the down side is..I would only have two citizens to rule over (my dogs)..and all you guys will need a passport and a travel visa to pop in and visit...but, hey at least prositution and pot is legal here and you will pay zero taxes...(this could work!) I think he is discovering the American dream....lol Certainly seems like it would reduce the "Spite" factor...now I gotta scrounge up a crown for my kinglyness...I already have a gleaming white porcelin throne to sit on while recieving foriegn dignitaries. lol, well should I be traveling in your area, I will forgo the visa and just ask you to come out in the outer world and have coffee okay? As my only diplomat I would agree on the condition that if I honor your flag and anthem upon entering your country..you would show the same respect for my empire...(Don't sweat it...all you would have to do is salute my flag...a worn out g-string tacked to a cedar fence post and sing along with my nation's anthem "Rock Lobster") after that..the coffee is on me. LOL
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Women had an equal voice in the affairs of the tribe. The Cherokee was a matriarchy. They would trace their bloodlines throught the mothers family. They couldn't marry within their own tribes, but to members of outside tribes. Kat You see I like that the Women had a equal voice. Very good This is cool; Family kinship ties in the Cherokee tribe are determined by the mother's clan. Children are automatically members of the mother's clan at birth. Each matrilineal clan was run by a council of grandmothers from that clan. The decisions and rulings of the Grandmothers were not to be questioned. The Clan Grandmothers of one clan joined with the Grandmothers of other clans when important decisions needed to be made for the whole village. If an individual broke the ancient Cherokee laws, they were brought before the appropriate Clan Grandmothers for judgement. The Clan Grandmothers were strict and would show no mercy to those who had committed serious breaches of social conduct. Because of this, Cherokee children are taught not only to respect their male elders, but also to show extreme reverence and respect to the Grandmothers. Even today, Clan Grandmothers are highly respected, obeyed, and honored. There have been seven Cherokee clans as long as the Cherokee people can remember. Some people think that the Ah-ni-ku-ta-ni (ancient Cherokee priesthood) comprised an eighth clan of the Cherokee People, but the Clan Grandmothers say this belief is a myth. The Ah-ni-ku-ta-ni appointed a member of each of the seven clans to represent both the spiritual forces and the ritual of ceremonies related to the progression of the human spirit from birth until entry into the spirit world. www.aaanativearts.com/cherokee/cherokee-clans.htm Kat |
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The seven clans of the Cherokee Indians are, Bird, Paint, Deer, Wolf, Blue, Long Hair, and Wild Potato. They are still that way here in the Eastern Band! Very Traditional! Those clan names are spiritual. Kat The Matriarchal society the Cherokee had isn't what you think! The women could not be tribal leaders and the couldn't voice opinions publicly! It just means they owned all the property and the clan lines followed their bloodlines. When a Man married a woman he went to live in her clans village. The reason they were not allowed to marry within the clan had a lot to do with genetics and building a bond between clans! |
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