Topic: 8 Reasons why I believe Christ Rose from the DEAD.
Nubby's photo
Fri 03/13/09 05:43 PM

I cant address every situation. I dont know the Church's position on every event. I do know, its important that we look to Christ. He is the author and founder of Christianity. You'll never believe anything if you judge each worldview the way you are judging Christianity.


huh

All I am doing is holding religion(yes ALL Religion) accountable for it's actions. I refuse to accept any cop-out answers, when the evidence is clear.




How do you explain the actions of Stalin, Mao, ect.

Inkracer's photo
Fri 03/13/09 05:50 PM


I cant address every situation. I dont know the Church's position on every event. I do know, its important that we look to Christ. He is the author and founder of Christianity. You'll never believe anything if you judge each worldview the way you are judging Christianity.


huh

All I am doing is holding religion(yes ALL Religion) accountable for it's actions. I refuse to accept any cop-out answers, when the evidence is clear.




How do you explain the actions of Stalin, Mao, ect.


Stalin's actions, and subsequent killing was done because of Socio-Political reasons, not religious ones. From a very short online search, I would also say that the motivation behind Mao was Socio-political.
Now, where their actions right? No, they weren't. But with there actions, the world is not blinded by what is written in some book, and can judge there actions objectively, something that cannot be done by most with actions that are clearly religiously motivated.

Nubby's photo
Fri 03/13/09 05:59 PM
Edited by Nubby on Fri 03/13/09 06:16 PM



I cant address every situation. I dont know the Church's position on every event. I do know, its important that we look to Christ. He is the author and founder of Christianity. You'll never believe anything if you judge each worldview the way you are judging Christianity.


huh

All I am doing is holding religion(yes ALL Religion) accountable for it's actions. I refuse to accept any cop-out answers, when the evidence is clear.




How do you explain the actions of Stalin, Mao, ect.


Stalin's actions, and subsequent killing was done because of Socio-Political reasons, not religious ones. From a very short online search, I would also say that the motivation behind Mao was Socio-political.
Now, where their actions right? No, they weren't. But with there actions, the world is not blinded by what is written in some book, and can judge there actions objectively, something that cannot be done by most with actions that are clearly religiously motivated.



WHat was the worldview that was behind there socio political philosophy, the motivation behind there decisions.

KerryO's photo
Fri 03/13/09 06:52 PM


just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.

Nubby's photo
Fri 03/13/09 07:06 PM



just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"

Inkracer's photo
Fri 03/13/09 07:17 PM




just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"


This is another thing I don't get about religion. Why willfully believe that there is a defect of some sort in us that needs to fixed.
I don't really see the point, and I don't really see how it is healthy...

KerryO's photo
Fri 03/13/09 07:17 PM
Edited by KerryO on Fri 03/13/09 07:22 PM




just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"



So, your argument is that unbelief is morally equivalent to murder, dismembering and cannibalism under your code of Christianity?

See, it's that cheap forgiveness and the total lack of regard for the victims of these crimes as cannon folder for quelling dissent with a totally illogical and potentially dangerous 'Free Will' creed of 'Deity First, Right or Wrong' that makes me recoil in horror as a Humanist.

-Kerry O.

KerryO's photo
Fri 03/13/09 07:33 PM





just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"


This is another thing I don't get about religion. Why willfully believe that there is a defect of some sort in us that needs to fixed.
I don't really see the point, and I don't really see how it is healthy...


Because like in the book 'Animal Farm', it allows the devout believer to think "All Animals are Equal, but Some Animals are More Equal Than Others" with impunity. With the competition lowered to the lowest common denominator, it allows The Elect to hoist the Jolly Rodger and proselytize without end, amen.

In reality, it's more like Harlan Ellison's novel "The Glass Teat", about how television mesmerizes and 'instructs'.

-Kerry O.

Seamonster's photo
Fri 03/13/09 08:34 PM
one reason why I believe Christ did not Rise from the DEAD.



Zero credible evidence.

Inkracer's photo
Fri 03/13/09 08:37 PM

one reason why I believe Christ did not Rise from the DEAD.



Zero credible evidence.


drinker

Dragoness's photo
Fri 03/13/09 08:40 PM





just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"


This is another thing I don't get about religion. Why willfully believe that there is a defect of some sort in us that needs to fixed.
I don't really see the point, and I don't really see how it is healthy...


Do you mean the immature inherited evil we are without the guide of religion?

As though we are naughty children who cannot control ourselves or be self responsible without the guidance of a book of doctrines developed by power hungry men.slaphead

Inkracer's photo
Fri 03/13/09 08:49 PM






just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"


This is another thing I don't get about religion. Why willfully believe that there is a defect of some sort in us that needs to fixed.
I don't really see the point, and I don't really see how it is healthy...


Do you mean the immature inherited evil we are without the guide of religion?

As though we are naughty children who cannot control ourselves or be self responsible without the guidance of a book of doctrines developed by power hungry men.slaphead


Yeah, Basically. I really don't understand the whole "We Are Sinners, by nature, and we have to spend our lives begging for forgiveness" or the Scientology "We have Implants from the E.T. Dictators that we need to remove"
Ultimately, I think that thinking like that is very unhealthy(Many faithful politicians would welcome a nuclear war, as they would view it as the beginning of Armageddon). Ultimately, I do feel that Religion is a virus that mankind needs to eliminate if we are to survive. Otherwise, it won't be just us we are killing, but Every other animal that has as much a right to live as we do.

Nubby's photo
Sat 03/14/09 05:10 AM





just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"


This is another thing I don't get about religion. Why willfully believe that there is a defect of some sort in us that needs to fixed.
I don't really see the point, and I don't really see how it is healthy...



You admit there is evil in the world. How does your worldview deal with the problem of evil?

Nubby's photo
Sat 03/14/09 05:20 AM
Edited by Nubby on Sat 03/14/09 05:58 AM





just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"



So, your argument is that unbelief is morally equivalent to murder, dismembering and cannibalism under your code of Christianity?

See, it's that cheap forgiveness and the total lack of regard for the victims of these crimes as cannon folder for quelling dissent with a totally illogical and potentially dangerous 'Free Will' creed of 'Deity First, Right or Wrong' that makes me recoil in horror as a Humanist.

-Kerry O.




Its not an argument. It is realizing the holiness of God.

Forgiveness was not cheap. It cost God more than you and I could ever know.

How does your worldview deal with the problem of evil?

My worldview does not violate the laws of logic?

Nubby's photo
Sat 03/14/09 05:45 AM







just some simple questions here.
how can there be so many different gods? (practices of different religion?)
are people like mormans or jews etc. wrong for not believing in christianity?
how can "the god" be around for thousands of years, then all of a sudden in the 1800's mormons pop up? then scientology pops up in the 1900's?

to make it clear i am a believe in none of these silly bed time stories you call religion. however, it would be nice if someone could answer these for me




2. A person is separated from God because of sin. If he or she does not do anything about it they will die that way, separated forever. There must be a payment for sin. You or I cannot stand before a holy God in the condition we are in. God is perfect. He is the only being who's reason for existence is in himself. Islam has no payment for sin, neither do any of the other world religions. In Christianity God enters into humanity that he might become that sacrifice for the sin of mankind. Its the only religion that solves the problem of sin.




Well, apparently, neither does Chrisitianity if a murdering cannibal like Jeffery Dahmer can be admitted to heaven while a wise and altruistic man like Ghandi can't be.

What price street cred? Because that's the only logical explanation for this sort of 'justice'.


-Kerry O.




"no one is righteous, no not on, all have turned away and fallen short of the glory of God"


This is another thing I don't get about religion. Why willfully believe that there is a defect of some sort in us that needs to fixed.
I don't really see the point, and I don't really see how it is healthy...


Do you mean the immature inherited evil we are without the guide of religion?

As though we are naughty children who cannot control ourselves or be self responsible without the guidance of a book of doctrines developed by power hungry men.slaphead


Yeah, Basically. I really don't understand the whole "We Are Sinners, by nature, and we have to spend our lives begging for forgiveness" or the Scientology "We have Implants from the E.T. Dictators that we need to remove"
Ultimately, I think that thinking like that is very unhealthy(Many faithful politicians would welcome a nuclear war, as they would view it as the beginning of Armageddon). Ultimately, I do feel that Religion is a virus that mankind needs to eliminate if we are to survive. Otherwise, it won't be just us we are killing, but Every other animal that has as much a right to live as we do.



"When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned."

"But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of (G)the one (H)the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by (I)the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many."


Isnt it believed by naturalists that evolution has hard wired our brain for faith.

Nubby's photo
Sat 03/14/09 05:49 AM
Edited by Nubby on Sat 03/14/09 06:01 AM

one reason why I believe Christ did not Rise from the DEAD.



Zero credible evidence.




Fact #1: After his crucifixion, Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in the tomb. This fact is highly significant because it means that the location of Jesus’s tomb was known to Jew and Christian alike. In that case it becomes inexplicable how belief in his resurrection could arise and flourish in the face of a tomb containing his corpse. According to the late John A. T. Robinson of Cambridge University, the honorable burial of Jesus is one of "the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus."{15}

"Fact #2: On the Sunday morning following the crucifixion, the tomb of Jesus was found empty by a group of his women followers. According to Jakob Kremer, an Austrian specialist on the resurrection, "By far most exegetes hold firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements concerning the empty tomb."{16} As D. H. van Daalen points out, "It is extremely difficult to object to the empty tomb on historical grounds; those who deny it do so on the basis of theological or philosophical assumptions.""

"Fact #3: On multiple occasions and under various circumstances, different individuals and groups of people experienced appearances of Jesus alive from the dead. This is a fact that is almost universally acknowledged among New Testament scholars today. Even Gert Lüdemann, perhaps the most prominent current critic of the resurrection, admits, "It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ.""

"Finally, fact #4: The original disciples believed that Jesus was risen from the dead despite their having every reason not to. Despite having every predisposition to the contrary, it is an undeniable fact of history that the original disciples believed in, proclaimed, and were willing to go to their deaths for the fact of Jesus’s resurrection. C. F. D. Moule of Cambridge University concludes that we have here a belief which nothing in terms of prior historical influences can account for--apart from the resurrection itself."


I am amply justified in believing Christ rose from the dead based on these four facts.

Inkracer's photo
Sat 03/14/09 06:00 AM


one reason why I believe Christ did not Rise from the DEAD.



Zero credible evidence.




Fact #1: After his crucifixion, Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in the tomb. This fact is highly significant because it means that the location of Jesus’s tomb was known to Jew and Christian alike. In that case it becomes inexplicable how belief in his resurrection could arise and flourish in the face of a tomb containing his corpse. According to the late John A. T. Robinson of Cambridge University, the honorable burial of Jesus is one of "the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus."{15}

Fact #2: On the Sunday morning following the crucifixion, the tomb of Jesus was found empty by a group of his women followers. According to Jakob Kremer, an Austrian specialist on the resurrection, "By far most exegetes hold firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements concerning the empty tomb."{16} As D. H. van Daalen points out, "It is extremely difficult to object to the empty tomb on historical grounds; those who deny it do so on the basis of theological or philosophical assumptions."{17}

Fact #3: On multiple occasions and under various circumstances, different individuals and groups of people experienced appearances of Jesus alive from the dead. This is a fact that is almost universally acknowledged among New Testament scholars today. Even Gert Lüdemann, perhaps the most prominent current critic of the resurrection, admits, "It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ."{18}

Finally, fact #4: The original disciples believed that Jesus was risen from the dead despite their having every reason not to. Despite having every predisposition to the contrary, it is an undeniable fact of history that the original disciples believed in, proclaimed, and were willing to go to their deaths for the fact of Jesus’s resurrection. C. F. D. Moule of Cambridge University concludes that we have here a belief which nothing in terms of prior historical influences can account for--apart from the resurrection itself.{19}



Those aren't facts. They are only found in the bible. That is only one source.

Nubby's photo
Sat 03/14/09 06:18 AM



one reason why I believe Christ did not Rise from the DEAD.



Zero credible evidence.




Fact #1: After his crucifixion, Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in the tomb. This fact is highly significant because it means that the location of Jesus’s tomb was known to Jew and Christian alike. In that case it becomes inexplicable how belief in his resurrection could arise and flourish in the face of a tomb containing his corpse. According to the late John A. T. Robinson of Cambridge University, the honorable burial of Jesus is one of "the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus."{15}

Fact #2: On the Sunday morning following the crucifixion, the tomb of Jesus was found empty by a group of his women followers. According to Jakob Kremer, an Austrian specialist on the resurrection, "By far most exegetes hold firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements concerning the empty tomb."{16} As D. H. van Daalen points out, "It is extremely difficult to object to the empty tomb on historical grounds; those who deny it do so on the basis of theological or philosophical assumptions."{17}

Fact #3: On multiple occasions and under various circumstances, different individuals and groups of people experienced appearances of Jesus alive from the dead. This is a fact that is almost universally acknowledged among New Testament scholars today. Even Gert Lüdemann, perhaps the most prominent current critic of the resurrection, admits, "It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ."{18}

Finally, fact #4: The original disciples believed that Jesus was risen from the dead despite their having every reason not to. Despite having every predisposition to the contrary, it is an undeniable fact of history that the original disciples believed in, proclaimed, and were willing to go to their deaths for the fact of Jesus’s resurrection. C. F. D. Moule of Cambridge University concludes that we have here a belief which nothing in terms of prior historical influences can account for--apart from the resurrection itself.{19}



Those aren't facts. They are only found in the bible. That is only one source.


They are believed to be historical facts by the majority of scholarship.

Inkracer's photo
Sat 03/14/09 06:27 AM




one reason why I believe Christ did not Rise from the DEAD.



Zero credible evidence.




Fact #1: After his crucifixion, Jesus was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in the tomb. This fact is highly significant because it means that the location of Jesus’s tomb was known to Jew and Christian alike. In that case it becomes inexplicable how belief in his resurrection could arise and flourish in the face of a tomb containing his corpse. According to the late John A. T. Robinson of Cambridge University, the honorable burial of Jesus is one of "the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus."{15}

Fact #2: On the Sunday morning following the crucifixion, the tomb of Jesus was found empty by a group of his women followers. According to Jakob Kremer, an Austrian specialist on the resurrection, "By far most exegetes hold firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements concerning the empty tomb."{16} As D. H. van Daalen points out, "It is extremely difficult to object to the empty tomb on historical grounds; those who deny it do so on the basis of theological or philosophical assumptions."{17}

Fact #3: On multiple occasions and under various circumstances, different individuals and groups of people experienced appearances of Jesus alive from the dead. This is a fact that is almost universally acknowledged among New Testament scholars today. Even Gert Lüdemann, perhaps the most prominent current critic of the resurrection, admits, "It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ."{18}

Finally, fact #4: The original disciples believed that Jesus was risen from the dead despite their having every reason not to. Despite having every predisposition to the contrary, it is an undeniable fact of history that the original disciples believed in, proclaimed, and were willing to go to their deaths for the fact of Jesus’s resurrection. C. F. D. Moule of Cambridge University concludes that we have here a belief which nothing in terms of prior historical influences can account for--apart from the resurrection itself.{19}



Those aren't facts. They are only found in the bible. That is only one source.


They are believed to be historical facts by the majority of scholarship.


Your little bible-thumping scholarship believing it, does not make it true.

Nubby's photo
Sat 03/14/09 06:27 AM
Josephus, written about 93 AD

"Antiquities 18.3.3 Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day."