Again the question goes since these men of the church condoned and also acted on their beliefs in the name of God and Jesus Christ, would Jesus have condoned God's plan or would he have called God on it? Did God's plan include the extermination of his own children just because they refused to accept another person's beliefs?

That is all I really wanted to know!

it was the free will of mankind that twisted the belief to suit there own purpose. It wasn't God's plan....free will of mankind did it. but also remember nero and what he did. it's not God...it's man's free will because they can't handle others being different....on all sides

Christ already knew these things would take place, He didnt have to call God on anything.

And that is part of the many reasons why I turned my back on Christianity. God can kiss my ass if he she it thinks I would ever give myself over to such a manipulative and self righteous deity!

How can a loving God condone murder in his Great plan? I dare question god and if I had the opportunity I would question God in his hers its face!

Love does not justify murder!

That and thanks for the answer.

But it's not about a loving God. Where did you get that?

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

It's about a God that lusts to be the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords and will cast anyone who gets in his way into a hell fire.

It's not about love at all. It's about about a jealous egotistical God who acts precisely what we could call a 'spoiled arrogant brat' if he were a mortal man.

But since he can cast us into a hell fire we don't dare point out his flaws. We just cower down and kiss his feet and tremble in fear praying all the while that he has some parents somewhere who will come and give him a spanking and save us all from his immature egotistical wrath.

That's the best we can do. Either that or convert back to Zeus who seemed sane in comparison.

This is where the free will argument comes into play. God allows murder to take place for a certain amount of time to bring about a greater good. Justice will eventually be paid by God to all who diobey him. For the Christian Justice was paid for on the Cross, through faith in him. This may be the best of all possible worlds given the existence of free will.

God is love. Hell is the abscence of love, everything good, and everything that is called God. Hate will consume.

You bow your knee and say Lord your will be done, or turn your back on him and say thy will be done. Separation.

You deny him now and He will deny you later.

Actually thats not realy true,
Only one was original the others were just a Plagiarism of Mathew.
And that was done many years after jesus' death.

Actually Mark is believed to be written down first. It is believed by scholarship that the other disciples took bits and pieces from Mark.

Actually Mark is believed to be written down first. It is believed by scholarship that the other disciples took bits and pieces from Mark.

Free Will is nothing more than a cop out. Either God CAN prevent evil(and if god can, why doesn't god?) or God CAN'T prevent evil.(In that case, why call him God?)

God can and will get rid of evil in the future. God will bring about a greater good through evil.


God cannot do anything. For instance the bible says God cannot swear by a name greater than himself. God cannot make a square circle. God cannot make a free human being love him with out violating his free will. God can do anything power can do.

Alvin Plantinga's Free Will Defense (Alvin Plantinga, God and Other Minds- A Study of Rational Justification of Belief in God. (Ithica, NY: Cornell University Press, 1967)

1. Free will is of moral value. That is, a world with free will is better than one without it.
2. It is a contradiction to say that God brings it about that humans freely will only the good { vs J.S. Findlay who claims that this is possilbe}
3. God must bring about the best possible world in his capacity.
4. Therefore, God must create a world with free will.[We believe the word "must" is objectionable here, but the point still stands. Instead read "God is correct to create..." ]
5. But then God is not responsible for evil (choices), since it is not in his power to bring it about that men freely choose only the good. [note: this assumes that God cannot, and need not, do the logically contradictory. If logic does not apply to God, then there is nothing wrong with asserting the apparent contradiction that God is good and He permits evil to exist. Where there is no logic, there are not any contradictions . . . and anything could be the case!]

"The question of why God allows the persistence of evil is distinct from the question of why He permitted it in the first place. The biblical answer to the issue of persistence of evil probably has to do with God's strategy for insuring the on-going and safe existence of freedom in the universe."

What basis do the you have for saying there is evil in the world?" " Is this not an appeal to your own relative moral feelings and opinions?" "Why should your feelings be authoritative?"

God can do anything... There is no name greater than all things... God can make a square circle... our limits prevent us from seeing it(but that does not mean it is not possible).

God loves us unconditionally... Therefore it matters not if we love god...

Try to ask clear questions.


Okay, did or did not Christ say that he came to bring a sword between parents and their children?

1. If he can and will, what is he waiting for? With all the wars, killing, famine going on in the world, why does he wait?

2. If god cannot do anything, 1. where does "All things are possible thru god" come from, because if he can't do anything, then clearly that is not true. 2. If he can't do anything, why call him god?

BTW, I am glad that you have faith that brings you peace and strength Nubby.