How ironic.

supposed to be a 4 step program

step 1 - read bible
step 2 - agree with bible
step 3 - agree with person who told you to read bible
step 4 - the kingdom of heaven awaits when steps 1 - 3 are followed

Most of the stuff in the Bible is not in the Bible

What about illiterate people? Do they get a one-way ticket to eternal damnation then?

The church prefers that.... Much easier to manipulate.

I have a book shelf full of books I want to read and wish I had the time. I know what is in the bible and what the agenda is and how the story ends, so why should I waste my time reading it again when I have so many other great educational books I haven't even cracked open yet?

The Bible has nothing in it that is of any use to me. Nothing.

I see the Bible as a history of a culture that used God to excuse their poor behavior in many cases.

I concede that some of the authors of the Bible wrote things of inspiration that were intended to be uplifting. After all it's not truly a single book, it's a cannon of stories from many different authors (albeit they were familiar with the folklore that had preceded them)

None the less, much of it was nothing more than an excuse to claim that God condoned the murdering of heathens, and the male chauvinistic treatment of women.

I believe that much of the Bible was indeed written to keep people in line and try to manipulate people to stand up for the bible.

I personally don't believe that the creator of this universe is a jealous God. Nor do I believe that he's at war with a fallen angel.

The very idea that the creator of this universe would need to sacrifice his own son in a war with a fallen angel would truly have been a victory for the fallen angel.

Moreover, such an act would be a clear act of desperation on the part of a supposedly all-wise all-powerful God.

I see the Bible as being such a vividly absurd story of a supposedly all-wise creator. I just don't see the wisdom in asking people for blood sacrifices in the very first place.

Much less having a supposedly all-powerful God cowering down to a fallen angel by desperately sacrificing his own son.

Those concepts diminish the idea of an all-wise all-powerful creator to a seriously inept and desperate God, IMHO.

Moreover, the very idea that this God would egotistically be upset with people who refuse to believe that God could be so inept is itself an absurd idea.

Why would God be angry with anyone for rejecting such a clearly contradicting and inept picture of God.

God is going to send me to hell because I thought the creator of this universe should be wiser and more powerful than the what a bunch of male chauvinist men who lived in ancient times and had claimed?

That utterly absurd as well.

I mean to believe in this picture I necessarily must believe that God is inept, unwise, and totally heartless.

This is what the story requires the I accept in order to believe it.

I must believe that the creator of this universe is a male-chauvinist. And that he asked people to judge each other and stone each other to death as sinners. And I must believe that he hates heathens (anyone who refuses to believe this authors of the Bible!).

The Bible even had God telling people to murder the wives and children of heathens.

How many humans think that would be moral?

The whole idea that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of this hateful bigoted male chauvinistic God is just so totally unreasonable as far as I'm concerned.

Moreover, look at Jesus. What did he do according to the Bible?

According to the Bible, Jesus denounced the teachings of the God of Abraham.

The God of Abraham had instructed people to judge others and stone them to death as sinners if they judged them to be sinners.

Clearly they were still obeying the God of Abraham in Jesus' day. And Jesus denounced the stoning of sinners, and even taught us not to judge others.

That's a completely ABOUT FACE!

This is supposed to be a stable unchanging creator?

The God of Abraham taught people to seek revenge, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Jesus denounced that violence and instead taught forgiveness and to turn the other cheek instead.

Again, that's 100% opposite of what the God of Abraham had taught.

So how could Jesus have possibly been the Son of the God of Abraham when he totally denounced the ways of that God?

Clearly this picture isn't even coherent.

You ask my verdict?

I believe that Jesus was a very spiritual man, and deeply interested in civil rights and he was a humanitarian.

The culture that wrote the Bible clearly had a missing gap in the life of Jesus from the time he was 12 until he was about 30.

I believe in those intervening decades he traveled to India, probably in search of wisdom and spiritual enlightenment. He learned of the pantheistic view (the view of Buddhism) and he became enlightened and knew that he and god are one in the same.

Then he returned to his home land and saw the violence continuing. People were still judging each other and stoning each other to death, and seeking revenge as an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Well, he couldn't very well just say, "Ok everyone, this is all wrong and horrible, you've got to convert to Buddhism".

That would go over like a lead balloon and most likely get him stoned to death as a HEATHEN!

So what would a wise concerned humanitarian sage do in that case? Well, the only way to approach the problem was to try to teach the people using their own beliefs. The time was ripe because the Roman Oppression had people in a very desperate way. They were desperately in need of a savior and there were many rumors about the coming of a messiah.

So Jesus accepted the role. He taught the ways of the Buddha and denounced the violence of the Old Testament. He spoke as the "Son of God" which, in his mind as a pantheist was TRUTH".

Jesus didn't need to lie to say that he and the Father are one, because that's what Buddhism and pantheism teach. Jesus knew that he was God, as is everyone else!

In fact, Jesus even wanted to make sure that they knew it, and he taught "Ye are also Gods". He never claimed to be any different from anyone else.

Even when he said things along the lines of his teaching being the ONLY WAY to God, he didn't mean that only HIS teaching, but anyone's teachings that were in line with HIS. He was teaching pantheism!

But at the same time his teachings totally denounced the teachings of the God of Abraham as I had outlined above. Therefore he was accused of blaspheme and eventually crucified for it so the story goes.

But he was a every FAMOUS RABBI by that time! He had preached to the masses. This would be like crucifying Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., or Gandhi. It didn't go unnoticed by the masses.

Rumors began to flourish about the man from Nazarene, the man that so many looked up to as their savior. The man that many believed to the incarnation of God himself!

In fact, in the early going historians have evidence that many of the early "Christians" (followers of Jesus), had widely different opinions of who he was and what he stood for. Many did not believe that he was the God of Abraham nor his Son, but rather that he had actually denounced that dogma.

This arguing went on for some time before the actual gospels were written. It is my belief that the gospels were written specifically to restore the God of the Old Testament. Yet they had to contain these popular new views of Jesus (the pantheistic view of brotherly love).

So they wrote up (or distorted existing rumors) into a rumor that was compatible with supporting their original Old Testament. In other words, the nailed the crucified Jesus to the Old Testament! So this was his second crucifixion.

They claimed that he was the Son of the God of Abraham and that the Old Testament is still the valid word of God! And whosoever shall deny these Holy Scriptures shall be declared a heretic and beheaded!

And thus the Holy Bible as we know it today was born.

Jesus was nailed to it as tightly as he had been nailed to the cross.

This I believe.

I don't believe in a God who was so desperate that he had to sacrifice his only begotten son in a war with a stupid fallen angel. That implies that the angel was a serious threat to God. Any God who would need to sacrifice anything to beat a demon is in pretty bad shape.

That my friends is demagoguery.

Jesus tried to save people from the Old Testament. It was never his intent to be used to prop it up.

That's my verdict Autumn.

And I mean no one any disrespect by it. This is just one human's view and I offer it to my fellow man with all the sincerity I can offer. Let's get past the Old Testament once and for all. And that includes the New Testament as it is nothing more than demagoguery to support the Old.

The main reason I decided to at least try to read it was a few Christians on forum kept insisting that I could not possibly debate any biblical issues unless I had read it. Yeah alright. I seriously doubt the people telling me that had actually read it.

And whats up with Paul? Why is he even in there?

I have to say this. Hee he he he..

Because it fits in so logically with my world view of the advanced race of beings (non-human galaxy aliens) who genetically altered and influenced the human beings and human culture on the earth.

If you read much of David Icke or Val Valarian you will learn that this race of reptilian humanoids (the Draconians) were once ruled by a King (not a queen) until the empire was overthrown and it became a female dominated society ruled by a queen.

Here is the gist of what they claim happened:

Some rebel forces that came to the earth formed their own male dominated society on earth and that is the influence that the human societies and cultures on earth were subjected to.

That is why the "god" of this earth seems to be a male chauvinist and why women were always treated like property. The women were feared and kept down because the male dominated rebel forces knew the women had taken control once and that they have the power to do it again, not to mention that the majority of the galaxy is still under the rule of the queen and the females.

So these influences are still felt in our collective memories and genes, hence the origin of "the battle between the sexes." In marriage, it is always a battle for power and most marriage problems stem from power struggles more than anything else.

These galaxy alien cultures vary and there are many diverse races, but the Draconians currently rule and even as advanced as they are in technology, they still are very superstitious and worship their own concept God. Slavery is very common and accepted in their society and that is probably another reason it was not condemned in the Bible. It was an acceptable and merciful solution to the alternative which was to kill the enemy.

Before the Draconians ruled the galaxy, it was overrun and ruled by the Serians. This race was brutal and ruthless and they conquered planets killing without mercy. They were defeated by the Draconians and now they are under their rule and are not allow to ransack planets as they used to do, but I am sure they still do it when they can get away with it.

Another influence that was handed down to humans was the practice of blood sacrifices. The Draconian royalty are blood drinking and flesh eating creatures (and they will eat humans too because they consider them to be no better than beasts.) They also enjoyed being worshipedas gods and after they left the earth that practice was adopted by Caesar and other rulers. (I think Obama is doing that too LOL)

Anyway, my point is that once you learn about the history and culture of the galaxy aliens it is not hard to see where some of our odd practices and beliefs came from.

Ok well if you were among flesh & blood I would agree with you, but this is a BBS & that's what people here do...share.

[quote.If you read much of David Icke or Val Valarian you will learn that this race of reptilian humanoids (the Draconians) were once ruled by a King (not a queen) until the empire was overthrown and it became a female dominated society ruled by a queen.

Anyway, my point is that once you learn about the history and culture of the galaxy aliens it is not hard to see where some of our odd practices and beliefs came from.



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I have read some of David Icke's writings. He basically talks about The Annunaki Race that procreated with humans. These Reptillian Hybrids half human half fallen angels. A race of their own. These aliens taught human beings secrets and mysteries of the universe and what is to come in the future. Their DNA is still in the earth . It sounds wild and unbelievable but it is true JB when you say "Once you learn the history and culture of the galaxy aliens it is not hard to see where some of our odd practices and beliefs come from".

The truth is stranger than fiction.



Yamin

Shalom!

I never cared much for fiction in books or films, but I only needed to view history to see humans can be quite strange with out it.

Imagination like anything else can be taken too far.

Thank you Yamin. Most people just laugh and think I'm a nutty conspiracy theorist or just a nut. I've looked at the big picture... A LOT. I've put two and two together. And you are right... the truth is very much stranger than fiction.

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I have read some of David Icke's writings. He basically talks about The Annunaki Race that procreated with humans. These Reptillian Hybrids half human half fallen angels. A race of their own. These aliens taught human beings secrets and mysteries of the universe and what is to come in the future. Their DNA is still in the earth . It sounds wild and unbelievable but it is true JB when you say "Once you learn the history and culture of the galaxy aliens it is not hard to see where some of our odd practices and beliefs come from".

The truth is stranger than fiction.



Yamin

Shalom!



does it not strike the conscious mind that this described mankind itself, each human being as half human, half angel?

do we not war to erase what each think it evil?

each half satan and half god?

ying and yang?

holy and not holy?

holy wars?

tree of life and tree of "sight" of all as good and evil?

religion or no religion?

god or not of god?

holy spirit which HAVE TO DIVIDE, to see what is HOLY, or SPIRIT OF GOD, THAT SEE ALL AS ONE?

if ALL STARTED FROM ONE, AND GOD STARTED ALL, THEN HOW CAN IT END WHEN ALL IS FULFILLED AS TWO?

TWO BE THE ENDING?

one big group of insubordinates and evils, and these WASHED CLEAN, then the "GOOD" HUMANS GET TO LIVE HAPPY?

NAY!

not one thing SELF BELIEVE COULD BE OF SELF, SINCE SELF DIDN'T ASK "WHERE TO BE BORN"...

BORN YOURSELF INTO A FAMILY THAT PRACTICES THE OCCULT, AND THEN SAY OCCULT IS EVIL?

ALL MUST MAKE HAPPINESS FOR ALL OR THERE IS NO HAPPINESS, AND ALL THINGS SEEN AS GOOD AND EVIL PEOPLES IS THE VERY FIRST "SIN" DESCRIBED THAT BROUGHT DEATH, EATING OF THE TREE OF GOOD AND EVIL SIGHT?

how do you propose to follow biblical text, and still BREAK THE VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT OF WHAT TO NOT DO?

6000 years and still not given up the very first sin of seeing others as evil?

taking of the fruit that make holy wars?

COME ONE GIRL, YOU ARE REPEATING WHAT YOU HAVE HEARD, AND NOT ACTUALLY SEEING WHAT MOTIVE BELIEVING THIS WILL CREATE WITHIN SELF?

to NOT LET UNCLEAN INTO SELF?

WHAT IS UNCLEAN, EXCEPT EACH "REACTION" THAT THINK AS "MANY THINGS ARE EVIL", THAT WILL MAKE THIS BY THE 'REACTING TO ALL THINGS WITH THIS, AND CREATE THIS INTO EXISTENCE?

WHO IS CREATING ALL HUMANS DO?

IS IT NOT US?

SO HOW ARE WE "SEEING" AS ALL COMMON THAT CAN CREATE EVIL?

TO BELIEVE IN EVIL IS TO CREATE IT?

how...

THE MIND IS TRAINED ON "DEFINING IT"?

so it define it RIGHT INTO EXISTENCE!!!!!!!!!!

IT SPEAK IT WITH THE MOUTH, THE SAME AS WAS SAID LONG AGO?

THE EARTH CREATED BY "GODS", SAID "WE", AND THIS EVERY ONE'S COME AND ARGUR WHO IS FIRST AND LAST, WHO IS GODS AND WHO IS NOT?


if god still loved when all BROKE THESE LAWS, and one is supposed to be as god, and GOD SEE NO SIN, AS SIN HATH NO PART WITH GOD, SO THEN YOU MUST FIND WHAT GIVE YOURSELF THE SAME SIGHT?

you already have the data, but using it for a sword to disect all others into two groups, enslave onto DENONINATION OF ONE, THEN ANOTHER IS MADE, THE VERY THING YOU SEE IS NOT GOOD?

ONE BECOME ANYTHING IT DESPISE, OR SEE AS NOT TRUE?

IF THE MIND BREAK IT INTO TWO, THEN IT BECOME THE HALF IT WISHED NOT?

the brain itself is set to function as this, NOT BALANCING ITSELF TO IT SEEK NOT TO MOVE RIGHT OR LEFT, BUT STRAIGHT, WHICH IS WHAT ONE WANT TO DO, MINUS ANY BELIEF?

belief is as a cloak, THAT ONE DRAP AROUND THE SHOULDERS, called a "tunic", AS IF TRYING "TO BE" AS SOME INFINITE GOD?

this cause all others to be swept up by the cape of seeking self righteoussness, which in itself is total seeking to be what self is not, which make one feel fake, and so think all others NOT saying and doing just as self ARE THEN FAKE AS WELL?

cause an cancer of the mind as a disease to reduce sight of humanity with any loving feeling?

if one cannot walk into ANY ENVIRONMENT AND THINK OF ALL AS ONE WOULD THEIR OWN BEST FRIENDS OF RELIGION, THEN THERE IS DISTAIN AND ALL PEOPLES BROKE INTO TWO?

the very essence of what seperate all love from any human thing, and only lead to resistance of self, as god is in each if alive, trying to make one walk upright, no longer crawling on the ground, as a soilder into battle, with it's little tiny gun called belief, trying to eradicate bad from itself and others, as if all are either ENEMY FOR FOE?

what one WANT followed set true cause an effect in motion, which be the only thing that lead to trur soltuon, which is the understanding of what TWO THINGS MIXED MAKE, not WHAT TWO EACH IN PILES ARE CALLED?

peace













half good and half bad, water and matter,

I have to disagree God wants us to live a life devoted to Christ and he wants us to tell others of Christ also. You do need to “give your life to Christ". Jesus loves you and he wants you to know that he will save you from your sins.

DEUTERONOMY 11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, always.

JOSHUA 22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

MARK 10:26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

JOHN 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world
to condemn the world; but that the world through
him might be saved.

ACTS 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

ROMANS 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

GALATIANS 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

EPHESIANS 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

2TIMOTHY 4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

HEBREWS 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him ;

I believe Christ died for me and all of us. We just got to ask for salvation. Jesus made it simple for us. As I do about every time. I suggest that you read the whole bible for all I can put here are only a few verses.

What's the point of force feeding us the bible, and then, when we question things, to tell us we will understand when we have turned to Jesus?
There really isn't one, is there?
So why do you keep doing it?
It's not what Jesus would have done.

I try to answer as many questions as I can. If you want to give me one I will try to answer it. One at a time please.

Have you received Christ salvation? If you will ask Jesus for salvation and believe the He came here and died for your sins you will be saved. That could be why you’re criticized. Most people don’t realize that they are making you angry. If you are not saved you will not have a full understanding of the bible and its meaning. It's not good to have anger toward anyone.

I will tell you were you can start studying. John is a good book to start with. All the books of the bible need to be studied to get a full picture of what God is telling us. After a person receives salvation there understanding opens up. Find a good Christ believing church and go to it. It is very important for your spiritual growth.

JOHN 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

JOHN 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

JOHN 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

JOHN 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

JOHN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and
they shall never perish, neither shall any man
pluck them out of my hand.

JOHN 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

if christ said it was most good to lay down one's life for chrsit, then is it not for the belief's that christ spoke, which was to lay down one's life for a friend???

how is not your life your belief's, as these are what decide what is good or bad of your life, what guide each step of each action of self???

how is a devoted life to christ, telling others how they are NOT OF CHRIST, when to devote to christ, would be to devote to the same beleif as christ, that said the same as 'your neighbor you consider as less or least, is who is christ', in the saying, "what thou has done unto the least of these, you have done unto me"???

your belief is most dedicated to making self what it "think" christ thought of itself???

when all words out of christ mouth were most ALL ARE EQUAL, and there were only words of anger and despising for only those that said, "these" are of god, and "those" are not, based on laws of spiritual goodness as some actions or words???

these if i recall be the only one's entreated with anything but kind words from christ???

hum.....

might want to inspect some of those things the mind called the roaring lion by your own text brought you on a silver platter???

"here, take and eat, for you are good, and washed it say, and are of me, but hey, check out those over there"....

"see, off in the distance, the great evil less than yourself ever there, and awh, come here closer my beloved of myself, for they are here in your own house as well, so are you going to allow such unholiness to exist in your presence good steward of me???

"cast out the evil from them, dear blessed son of mine that has believed on me, and speak to them the light you have seen, and save them from what you sought saving from"???

"you have i blessed and gave the keys to heaven and hell, dear preacher of me and of goodness"???

yea, nothing recieve the keys to life which is awareness, less it decend to hell first, just as your christ did, and anything that decend to hell itself, has been scorched by the eternal flame, and not just by the everlasting flame of mortal, and no longer see flame thru fear as not good, and not then even as most good???

so the tails of the mind of heaven and hell were as told backwards, just as your text say, "what is up is down, and down is up", and anything that hear god so then hear this as well???

so up as down learn hell is actually heaven, and heaven is actually hell, and only this knowing within self, be any proof for self to know it was found, and found nothing???

the roaring lion the mind was also called belief of satan???