General terms? Not really. All love is divine love. Except when mixed with human emotions, it gets distorted.

All things are from my own personal experience. I am my own authority on many things, as personal experience ranks as my highest authority.

P.S. Your question was, after all, how I reached that conclusion. That is my honest reply.

if any belief convince the mind there are TWO spieces of humans, the "we" and the "them", those who please god, and those who do not, then it becomes perfectly clear that this in itself show most what belief any human percetpion need saved from???

if there is any essence to any truth of the word love, then anything that allow it's belief to establish "who" is equal, and "who" is as worthy as self, cannot in any world allow the heart to love without bias and qualifications???

qualifier's based on self as the "measure" of worth and truth, can lead to only one motive created within, SELF AS BETTER BECAUSE OF MERIT FOUND FOR SELF FROM OUTSIDE WORDS???

how can any religion purtorted to be of greater love of god, allow belief to seperate itself from equal love for all???

surely this belie the deception possible within any belief or words, if the perception when it found belief found it while seeking validation and acceptence to prove to itself it has self worth???

can a book pronounce self worth for oneself, or other's who self effect all day long???

to love any words that make self love to lift itself high and pronounce itself as good, have always created new religion's each day???

the interpretation of the thoughts of the mind itself, hath the power to create a heart willing to accept perceievd measures of others human value, and these can be purtorted to be the way's of a loving god that so loved the world???

the mind taking belief's for the purpose of self receiving proposed promises of god for self, show most simply ambition of self, and only serve an image of spiritual and godly that is appealing to self???

That is your own interpretation of love however. Divine love or just love. That is not my personal feeling. I might agree with you on certain terms such as joy or gratitude. However my personal definition of love is not limited to those feelings. That is what I meant when I stated that if you asked 10 different people, you would hear ten different replies yet you might very well hear nouns such as "gratitude" and "joy" in the mix. I feel gratitude every morning I open my eyes. I have learned in this life not to take anything for granted.



That is fine.



So you are asking me how I personally define love. Well for me it is an emotion yet it is far more complicated and far reaching. At least that has been my personal experience.

Well thats what I meant. I was asking how would you reach that conclusion but did not realize you were not speaking to me directly but in abstract terms based on your own personal experience.

Yeh, it wasn't personal advice or assumptions about you. Just trying to be a philosopher.

Very good!

I never do. You're only going by my activity in the GR forums where Christians are constantly proseltyzing an oganization of bigotry shoved down people's throats in the name of Jesus.

I never assume that people are talking about the biblical God when I meet people causually in person. Unless of course they start up with the "Jesus Saves" crap.

But just look at the title of the thread Jeannie "Read Your Bible".

What's to assume? The dogma has been called out by name.

It's a proseylizing thread.

Against the forums rules too boot.

I’m in the same boat with Abra. The only reason why I am referencing the god of the bible is not because that is how I personally define "god". Heavens no. It is because we are discussing, arguing, debating about this particular construct of god. If we were discussing another god, then that would be made clear but we have to work within the confines of the discussion.

Yes, the title of the thread is quite revealing.

K.

NOW FIRST BEFORE I START.....With the exceptions of scripture references Krisma....THESE ARE MY WORDS....As has all been....I have notes from studies....my notes......And if I want to use them to get a point across deal with it...It is still my work.

Of course Jesus was not going against his Father.....Or the Laws His Father denounced pretty clear that Now with the coming of God's Son Jesus Christ was the Law.

Paul nor Jesus were misogynist. If it was not for the women of his ministry it would of not accomplished what it did.

Of course the OT was the Law given from God to Moses. That is not in dispute here. What is in dispute is you believing in just God and OT. Which of course again is your choice. Just as I believe in both OT and NT. For me To leave Jesus out of the equation laws or no laws is a direct slap in God's face. Jesus was God's Son the sacrifice that God was willing to give to US so that we ALL not just the JEWS BUT ALL could have everlasting life. Now again for me only if you don't believe then ok so be it. There is God in three persons....GOD, JESUS CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT ALL OF GOD THE FATHER, FOR GOD THE FATHER,

I have not given you one bit of double talk....but it will never make sense ever and that is just the way it is. Because always your ears and eyes will be closed.

You are delusional K....I have done nothing of the sort when it comes to OT law...My favorite books of the Bible happen to be Old Testament Books. Again not going over the stoning because I gave you answers over and over and over again.

If you want to believe in Yahweh God and OT law go for it....

As far as the Romans having interest in it or not is not the point....The same people that God sent His Son to Save, the Jews killed Christ. And why do you think the Jews thought Jesus to be a threat? Because the men of the temple the Pharisees were the ones threatened. (copied and pasted) The dictionary version of phar·i·see (fār'ĭ-sē) Pronunciation Key

1. Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.

2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

It also says in the Bible that the Jews will be the first and the last. This means Krima that all the jews out their today will continue to believe in only OT law, but when everyone else on earth hears the Gospels of Christ...Then and only then will the Jews hear and know that Christ is exactly who He IS.

And see Krisma your statement has no validity because you can't change what is period. Jesus was executed and he died so that all the sins of the world would be taken on by him. So much so that his own Father God had to look away because the sin was so great. And no matter what YOU say, it was what it was. Now if you don't care to believe it....hello your choice.


AND IT WAS NOT THE JEWS THAT WERE THREATENED READ IT...THEY WENT ALONG WITH WHAT THE PHARISEE'S WERE SAYING BECAUSE THEY PUT THEIR TRUST IN MEN INSTEAD OF GOD. AND THESE MEN PHARISEE'S HAD THEIR OWN AGENDAS.

And God and Jesus knowing exactly what was going to happen to Jesus is RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION. Because God and Christ knew how "Men" would act, what they would do and that is of unmost importance to what we are discussing.

So therefore, since Jesus was God, His life was worth far more than all human lives combined. God, being a consistent enforcer of His law, had condemned all humans to death for their sins, and couldn't arbitrarily cancel them without putting His sense of justice in question...... Consequently, to rescue mankind from its sins, only the life of Someone worth more than all our lives put together could pay the penalty of our sins while keeping His law intact.... But that price couldn't be paid, unless Jesus in all respects became also like the part of the Creation to be redeemed. Jesus had to die, because only human death could pay the penalties for human sin.......

Yet, He also had to be the Creator of humanity, since only then would His life would be worth more than all the other human beings who had ever lived. Importantly, Jesus' sinlessness is a necessary but not sufficient condition for saving humanity, for that isn't enough by itself to do the job. Ultimately, our appreciation for what Jesus did because the level of sacrifice He engaged in is almost infinitely lessened....... No longer does the Almighty God who lived from all eternity and created the universe die for us, but rather just (perhaps) a virgin-born, sinless man who is just like ourselves otherwise.

The Gospel of John proves Jesus is God

The Gospel of John, its theme can be summarized as describing Jesus Christ, the One who was fully God and fully man, and His teachings for those already converted. John also emphasized Jesus' humanity. Its opening verse affirms the Deity of Christ:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Since in verse 14

"the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us,"

Jesus Christ it is confirmed of preexistence before the Holy Spirit impregnated the Virgin Mary. In the Gospel of John since John mentions the "Word" was in the beginning in the first clause before referring to the Father ("God") in the second, this by itself strongly implies His eternal preexistence.

Jesus referred to the Father in such a familiar way,unlike other Jews, they thought He was committing blasphemy. Similarly, Jesus stated in John 10:30,

"I and the Father are one." For this remark, the Jews immediately picked up stones again to stone Him......

Why?

"'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." But at this point, if Jesus wasn't God, immediately He could have clarified His identity by issuing a simply plain denial right then. Instead, side-stepping the accusation by quoting Psalms 82:6, He affirms He is the Son of God.

Jesus when He used the title "the Son of God" to imply divinity and not just Messiahship. (Theoretically, one could claim to be the Messiah yet deny being God). Taking on this title cost Jesus His life. His crucifixion followed the supposed blasphemy of saying He was the Son of God. After His resurrection, Jesus confronted doubting Thomas, who replied in total astonishment,

"My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28).

Again, if Jesus wasn't God, this exclamation presented Him with the golden opportunity to correct Thomas' would-be misunderstanding But, of course, He did no such thing. Thomas wasn't using a irreverent euphemism, something which may be common today but was virtually unknown in his culture. Instead, remembering that Thomas' earlier devotion and service to Jesus shows he wouldn't casually throw around God's name in vain, in context his previous unbelief was overwhelmed, dazzled, and rebuked by the personal proof of Jesus' Deity by His resurrection from the dead.

The Gospel of John is full of statements by Jesus which no Old Testament prophet would dare make about himself, but which came naturally to Him.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'" (John 14:6).

"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies" (John 11:25). "'

"I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life" (John 8:12).

"I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins" (John 8:24).

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day" (John 6:54).

"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" (John 15:5-6).

"I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst" (John 6:35).

"All may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him" (John 8:23).


You do not in any sense of the word understand God at all....because if you did....none of what you say would come spilling out of your mouth with such vile nastyness....

I don't judge you...not my job....

And you are with me to know what I do huh abra....hmmmmm I think not. You know nothing of my Christian life...

You are a walking talking oxymoron


I speak of God...no one can ever in their wildest dreams be on the same level as God....No way no how....And I have never claimed that James you have.


Again who is warped you show me once where I have ever said to anyone believe me or die....Or anything bad to a person as an individual human being.....can't because I never have.

I SEE YOU BEING MORE SELF RIGHTEOUS THEN ANYONE ABRA...YOU RANT AND ACT LIKE A LIL KID WHO CAN'T GET HIS WAY AT THE TOY STORE.


SO AGAIN LOOK IN THE MIRROR BEFORE YOU CALL OTHERS A BRAT......AND WHO AGAIN JUDGES JAMES....I HAVE ALWAYS SAID BELIEVE AS YOU WISH.

I don't judge you...not my job....

And you are with me to know what I do huh abra....hmmmmm I think not. You know nothing of my Christian life...

You are a walking talking oxymoron


I speak of God...no one can ever in their wildest dreams be on the same level as God....No way no how....And I have never claimed that James you have.


Again who is warped you show me once where I have ever said to anyone believe me or die....Or anything bad to a person as an individual human being.....can't because I never have.

I SEE YOU BEING MORE SELF RIGHTEOUS THEN ANYONE ABRA...YOU RANT AND ACT LIKE A LIL KID WHO CAN'T GET HIS WAY AT THE TOY STORE.


SO AGAIN LOOK IN THE MIRROR BEFORE YOU CALL OTHERS A BRAT......AND WHO AGAIN JUDGES JAMES....I HAVE ALWAYS SAID BELIEVE AS YOU WISH.

You can climb down off your horse anytime you want Feral.

I pass no judgments on you.

I just point out the fallacy of the biblical doctrine is all.

You're the one who's getting all worked up about it and ranting like a little kid.

I just stick to the facts.

Facts that you obviously don't like to hear.

You pretend that the biblical god isn't a male chauvinist pig. But that's precisely what the dogma demands.

It's really not your choice. Nor do you need to try to defend it.

I'm well aware that you didn't write the Bible.

It's just like Greek Mythology where Zeus is as the mythology says.

The same thing goes with the Biblical Mythology. The God of Abraham is what the mythology claims.

Either that or the mythology is all wrong. In which case we're talking about a differnt God.

Like Jeannie says. God loves you Feral. It truly doesn't depend on the Biblical Mythology. It's in the fact that you exist. Period.

Now excuse me whilst I go pray to a rock where God resides in Her glorious crystalline façade.

They do not appear to be your own words feral. They look like entire copied and pasted summaries of extended exegesis. I would prefer your own words typed and nothing copied and pasted. You can do it or not do it.



No that’s not clear at all. You admit that the OT law was the word of Yahweh. Yahweh never retracted the Law and Jesus made a point of proclaiming that he had not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. You are assuming just by the fact that Yahweh sent Jesus in the first place (debatable) that somehow that denounced the law of his father? Where is that written in scripture? Point it out. Either way, Christ clearly was against the Law of the OT and felt that we should not stone people for no good reason. This was the law of the OT and the word of Yahweh.




I never claimed that Jesus was a misogynist. Clearly we suspect that he was quite compassionate towards women. We can’t know this for certain but many clues allude to that, including his infatuation with Mary Magdalene. He was a man after all with physical longings and needs. Chances are she bore him children also.

Paul on the other hand, was a chauvinist pig. Do I need to post any more of his garbage? Is there any remaining doubt?



I never said I ONLY believed in the God of the OT. That’s just the point. It’s the SAME god. The same one that created the Law where innocent people died and so many suffered was in fact created by Yahweh. Stop trying to get out of it.




I’m NOT leaving Jesus out of equation. I’m telling you that Jesus went against the brutality of his father and the Law of the OT.



It’s not a matter of believing any of this or not. It’s whether or not Yahweh was a brutal ass kicker in the OT and yes he was, then he sacrificed his son who went against his Law. There are even many passages in the NT that are questionable. Paul for instance! This argument is becoming circular.



WAS IT YAHWEH THAT GAVE THE LAWS TO MOSES? THE ONES THAT DECLARED SINNERS PUT TO DEATH? SINNERS LIKE 15 YEAR OLD GIRLS WHO ARE NOT VIRGINS?





So now you are saying that you don’t believe in god? If you are truly going to accept the notion that he existed and created the world, then you MUST take the good with the bad.



Isn’t that what I just said in my last post?



The Jews rejected Jesus because:

1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.

2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.

3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.

4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.

5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology



Which statement of mine has no validity? You will need to be a little more specific.



In other words, if the Jews had not gone after him, he would have never been executed and you would have no road to salvation today.



But according to your last post, both god and Jesus knew what was in store for him? Why should it have been a shocker when his own father set him up to be killed in such a horrific manner? And why is that my fault 2000 years later?




Really? I thought it was because the Jews felt threatened by Jesus.



How? All that entire sequence in the scripture means is god is a sick, morbid freak. He sent his own son to die at the hands of an unruly mob essentially. I take no responsibility for such nonsense. It sounds like reckless endangerment and he would have been thrown in prison.



I don’t think so. However I don’t put estimates of worth on human life in that manner.



Well we already know that god has been pretty inconsistent already.

......

So in other words, Jesus is worth more than any other human beings life? That’s a load of crap. I don’t pick and choose whose life has more value. Sorry. The murder of Jesus was nothing more than the law of the OT being enacted in all of its glory and splendor.

....

But I personally have never done anything to warrant a man to die nailed to a cross. Maybe you have but I seriously doubt it. Get off this guilt trip.



Oh because he made all of us, it’s okay for him to decide the value of human life? Oh that’s right! Remember Noah's flood? He had decided then that the entire world was not worth saving. He tried to drown the planet (except sea animals) and all of the inhabitants on earth who were totally innocent.



I’m not sure if Jesus was "sinless" per se.



So a police officer who dies in the line of duty to save the life of a civilian is not worth quite as much as Jesus?



This is another reason the Jews rejected Jesus. He was the product of a rape by a Roman centurion.



Feel free to look over my past posts. About 3/4 of it is taken from the scripture directly. I guess if that is your idea of "vile nastiness". I have to agree. Try again.

Excuse me don't judge.....your joking right....I would go back and read your posts...I don't see anyone else's name in there except mine...and again full of hate and bitter for what...my beliefs....well get over it james because it's my beliefs and I am entitled to them. And get one thing straight I have never ever once said you can't believe what you want..and the only time I have ever (Which regret) put down your beliefs is when you attack mine first.


Who's facts do you stick to James?

Greek Mythology is just that.....Biblical Mythology nope sorry never was called that....Those are terms you use.....Which of course go along with all the other crap you spew.


And for me it's all about the Bible....

Tell me something I worked hard and bugged mods and admin to give you guys your own place to talk about your beliefs...so why is it so important to come and bash Christians for you still..If I am not mistaken....IM NOT you said on many occasions if you had a place for you and yours to go and talk about your beliefs you would....So why do you still find it so important to come and bash us.

Why aren't you in your declaring all who are gods

Is this directed at me or Abra?

What are you talking about? You are supposed to limit these posts to Christian Singles. If any one of us buzzed right now, the OP would get a warning and this thing would be sent there. You just don’t like to stay in Christian Singles because there is no warm flesh there ripe for conversion.

This is the christian section?
I thought it was for gen religion.
The bible is full of hate and flat out lies, this is proven. So why would anyone follow a book that promotes slavery and rape and all around hate, I don't get that.

Cute!