Do you wanna talk to my grandmother?
She lost her husband because he was a Social Democrat, and I'm sure she'll tell you straight out on which political side the Nazis were.

Contrary to you, my grandmother WAS THERE and experienced time in a work camp for the simple reason that my grandfather was left. YOU GET IT NOW?

But of course for you it's a laughing matter.

Your arrogance is sticking out like a sore thumb

Spider said:



No. On the contrary I am right until you can provide evidence to support your outlandish and biased claims and discredit my position at this point.



It's estimated that 9 million Jews died at the hands of Hitler, along with about 3 million other people.



I have explained this to you now about 4 times Spider. It is estimated that about 3 million Christians were killed by the Nazis. They were primarily Polish Christians as Germany invaded Poland in the Fall of 1939. The Christians who were killed were the ones who were arrested and captured by the Gestapo as attempting to hide Jews.

You still don't understand what a logical fallacy is, do you?

It doesn't matter who or what your grandmother or father were. I can't verify what you are saying, I have to take it at face values that you are telling the truth. It's a logical fallacy, because any logical argument should be supported by authority, but you make claims about an authority of which only you have access to.

No, it's not. And 9,000,000 != 11,000,000. What happened to the other 2,000,000? Drop your number another 3,000,000 and you will be as close to the accurate number as we can get.

you are just to arrogant to say that you might be wrong.
You ignore all facts that point in a direction you don't like, so I'm finished with you. You can't re-write our history based on the facts you get from your Christian/Conservative websites, no matter how hard you try.
You don't have the slightest clue about our political system, yet you claim to know it all, have it then, who cares? Your discrediting my grandmother has done it for once and for all. Good bye spider.

So what is your point? Get busy refuting my evidence. If we are now going to sit here and argue numbers, you might as well create another thread in order that we debate just that topic alone.

Does it make you feel better if the Catholic Hitler is merely responsible for the death of 6 million Jews instead of 9 million?

Can you refute my evidence or not? What about Invisible's evidence?

You don't even quote an accurate number of Jews killed in the Holocaust, why should I accept any of your facts or arguments? You even quote two different numbers and then act like nobody should notice.

It should be obvious that only one side has tried to be accurate and logical. Enjoy the rest of your day.

My evidence is not evidence because I'm

1)German
2)uneducated)
3)ill informed
4)a habitual liar.

Spider I said 11 million Jews. All I did was add in the other people that fell victim to the Christian Nazies. You quoted 6 million which is incorrect but that sounds about as accurate as the rest of the fallacies you have posted here.

This is irrelevant and you still have not refuted my evidence. You are attempting to play a game of distraction and it is painfully obvious.

Everybody watch out for the Barking Moon Bats...

What are you smoking? Anyway Im researching your quotes. I found the Christian website they were harvested from.

It's called diversion.
Let people look in any direction but the right one.

During the First and Second World War, German leaders used the writings of Luther to make Luther appear as if he would have been an active supporter of German nationalism. At the 450th anniversary of Luther's birth, which took place only a few months after the Nazi Seizure of Power in 1933, there were celebrations conducted on a large scale both by the Protestant Churches and the Nazi Party. At a celebration at Königsberg (which after 1945 became Kaliningrad) Erich Koch, at that time Gauleiter of East Prussia, made a speech which, among other, compared Adolf Hitler and Luther and claimed that the Nazis fought with Luther's spirit. Such a speech might be dismissed as mere propaganda, but, as Steigmann-Gall points out: "Contemporaries regarded Koch as a bona fide Christian who had attained his position [of the elected president of a provincial Church synod] through a genuine commitment to Protestantism and its institutions."

Oh noes! It must be a full moon, the Barking Moonbats are fluttering about. All conservatives should stay enjoy and enjoy their freedoms while they still can.

Whatever that means.

Well, I don't think you get more out of him. Spider has a tendency to get childish when he doesn't get anywhere fast.

Your statements:

Nazi values are Christian values.

The obvious conclusion:

Christians should be killed or imprisoned, because they will try to kill their closest allies, the Jews.

I didn't say it makes sense, but it's your beliefs.

Spider I gave both views here to be fair and objective.


Hitler’s private statements about Christianity were largely negative. Hitler’s intimates, Goebbels, Speer, and Bormann report many such statements, although the historical validity of some remarks has been questioned, particularly the collection called Table Talk. Although most historians consider it a useful source, some do not regard it as wholly reliable. Ian Kershaw makes clear the questionable nature of Table Talk as a source; however, although Kershaw recommends treating the work with caution, he does not suggest dispensing with it altogether. The atheist historian Richard Carrier goes further, controversially contending that certain portions of Table Talk, especially those regarding Hitler's hatred of Christianity, are inventions.

There is less controversy about other statements. Joseph Goebbels notes in a diary entry in 1939: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay." Albert Speer reports a similar statement: “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?" In the Hossbach Memorandum Hitler is recorded as saying that "only the disintegrating affect of Christianity, and the symptoms of age" were responsible for the demise of the Roman Empire. In 1941, Hitler praised an anti-Christian tract from 362 AD, neo-platonist and pagan Roman emperor Julian the Apostate's Against the Galileans, saying "I really hadn't known how clearly a man like Julian had judged Christians and Christianity, one must read this..."

In contrast to other Nazi leaders, Hitler did not adhere to esoteric ideas, occultism, or Nazi mysticism, and even ridiculed such beliefs in private and possibly in public. Drawing on higher criticism and some branches of theologically liberal Protestantism, Hitler advocated Positive Christianity, traditional Christianity purged of everything that he found objectionable. Hitler never directed his attacks on Jesus himself, but viewed traditional Christianity as a corruption of the original ideas of Jesus, whom Hitler regarded as an Aryan opponent of the Jews. In Mein Kampf Hitler writes that Jesus "made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross." Hitler downplayed the idea of Jesus' redemptive suffering, stating in a speech in 1927:[dubious – discuss]

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. .. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison."