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| Topic: If you think intelligent design should be taught in schools. | |
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Well you keep claiming that we have to refute some argument you have made. I feel we have like ten times over now. Its just becoming ridiculous at this point. The photos were merely the last nail in the coffin. Start by refuting this: And I have quoted Hitler from during WWII. My quotes show him reviling Christianity in private. Your quotes have all been PUBLIC. So why don't you try to be intellectually honest, hmmmm? How do you explain his quotes from private? To his top advisers? How do you explain those? I have explained his quotes from public, he was using Christianity to control racist Christians. How do you explain his statements made in private which were also dictated by him? Also, sorry, but an anti-Christian website doesn't count as an "objective source". And that does make him left wing? Go on. Next |
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Spider stop being so mean to people and let them voice their opinions without a lot of insults alright?  That is that person's opinion of Invisible and so far from what I have read, she seems to know what she is talking about and is very objective. If you feel the need to discredit her, then do so. Locate information that clearly is in conflict with anything she has stated thus far. Of course her having stated that invisible is the ONLY one posting on this subject who can speak on this matter because her heritage is German - is an opinion not possibly based on fact - so why is her opinion even considered. It's one thing to have an opinion - it is another think to have that opinion supported by fact. This is not to take anything away from what Invisible may or may not know about this toipic - but she knows NOTHING about all of the posters on this topic to attempt to make a comparison. Thus - Spiders post. Nothing mean spirited about what he said. In fact, his post was made more out of concern for the fact that more information is needed in that post to lend it even an ounce of respectability. |
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Well you keep claiming that we have to refute some argument you have made. I feel we have like ten times over now. Its just becoming ridiculous at this point. The photos were merely the last nail in the coffin. Start by refuting this: And I have quoted Hitler from during WWII. My quotes show him reviling Christianity in private. Your quotes have all been PUBLIC. So why don't you try to be intellectually honest, hmmmm? How do you explain his quotes from private? To his top advisers? How do you explain those? I have explained his quotes from public, he was using Christianity to control racist Christians. How do you explain his statements made in private which were also dictated by him? Also, sorry, but an anti-Christian website doesn't count as an "objective source". What difference would it make what he said in private? He was a narcissist and a crazy person though clearly a Christian. This is how he came to be in such a position of power with the support of both the Catholic and Protestant network. They both had absolutely no problem with his agenda. You can start by refuting that. |
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Well you keep claiming that we have to refute some argument you have made. I feel we have like ten times over now. Its just becoming ridiculous at this point. The photos were merely the last nail in the coffin. Start by refuting this: And I have quoted Hitler from during WWII. My quotes show him reviling Christianity in private. Your quotes have all been PUBLIC. So why don't you try to be intellectually honest, hmmmm? How do you explain his quotes from private? To his top advisers? How do you explain those? I have explained his quotes from public, he was using Christianity to control racist Christians. How do you explain his statements made in private which were also dictated by him? Also, sorry, but an anti-Christian website doesn't count as an "objective source". What difference would it make what he said in private? He was a narcissist and a crazy person though clearly a Christian. This is how he came to be in such a position of power with the support of both the Catholic and Protestant network. They both had absolutely no problem with his agenda. You can start by refuting that. His private statements reveal his true beliefs. His public statements were made to give him the appearance of Christianity. His private statements clearly reveal that Hitler had nothing but contempt for Christianity. That is an inescapable conclusion if you desire to be intellectually honest. If you are willing to say anything to slander Christianity, which you seem to be, then intellectually honesty probably doesn't carry much weight in your personal beliefs. |
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Spider stop being so mean to people and let them voice their opinions without a lot of insults alright? That is that person's opinion of Invisible and so far from what I have read, she seems to know what she is talking about and is very objective. If you feel the need to discredit her, then do so. Locate information that clearly is in conflict with anything she has stated thus far. Of course her having stated that invisible is the ONLY one posting on this subject who can speak on this matter because her heritage is German - is an opinion not possibly based on fact - so why is her opinion even considered. It's one thing to have an opinion - it is another think to have that opinion supported by fact. This is not to take anything away from what Invisible may or may not know about this toipic - but she knows NOTHING about all of the posters on this topic to attempt to make a comparison. Thus - Spiders post. Nothing mean spirited about what he said. In fact, his post was made more out of concern for the fact that more information is needed in that post to lend it even an ounce of respectability. I would make the same challenge to you as Spider. Publicly discredit both Invisible or I in respect to our historical data thus brought forth. Also, get to work on Seamonster's photos if you will. |
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Spider said; which included Planned Parenthood (to deal with what Margaret Sanger called "The Negro Problem") Planned Parenthood is rooted in the courage and tenacity of American women and men willing to fight for women's health, rights, and equality. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, is one of the movement's great heroes. Sanger's early efforts remain the hallmark of Planned Parenthood's mission: * providing contraception and other health services to women and men * funding research on birth control and educating specialists and the public about the results * advancing access to family planning in the United States and around the world Women's progress in recent decades — in education, in the workplace, in political and economic power — can be directly linked to Sanger's crusade and women's ability to control their own fertility. Despite that - she was a Eugenisist. Don't leave that out of your list of her wonderful attributes. A major black spot in our countries history - but you won't find that in any of your history books. But I'd be more than curious for you to provide the references to prove this othewise. After all - we'd hate to think of you as someone who ignores ALL of the information about someone in order to further your personal agenda. |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Sun 12/14/08 10:08 AM
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Spider stop being so mean to people and let them voice their opinions without a lot of insults alright? That is that person's opinion of Invisible and so far from what I have read, she seems to know what she is talking about and is very objective. If you feel the need to discredit her, then do so. Locate information that clearly is in conflict with anything she has stated thus far. Of course her having stated that invisible is the ONLY one posting on this subject who can speak on this matter because her heritage is German - is an opinion not possibly based on fact - so why is her opinion even considered. It's one thing to have an opinion - it is another think to have that opinion supported by fact. This is not to take anything away from what Invisible may or may not know about this toipic - but she knows NOTHING about all of the posters on this topic to attempt to make a comparison. Thus - Spiders post. Nothing mean spirited about what he said. In fact, his post was made more out of concern for the fact that more information is needed in that post to lend it even an ounce of respectability. I would make the same challenge to you as Spider. Publicly discredit both Invisible or I in respect to our historical data thus brought forth. Also, get to work on Seamonster's photos if you will. Krimsa, We have made an argument, which you haven't successfully refuted or even tried to refute. Hitler used a racist interpretation of Christianity to control racist Christians. His beliefs weren't actually supported by Christianity and in private he reviled Christianity. Please refute that. Why would he mock and revile Christianity in private if he was a Christian? |
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And that does make him left wing? And leaves the whole German population uneducated and ill informed? Go on. Next.
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Invisible, I wasn't calling you a liar, I was explaining why Jess's post was a logical fallacy. If you want to be offended, the go right ahead. She is saying "Well, Invisible says it and she's a German, so it must be the truth", but that doesn't follow. I'm sure this is incredibly offensive to you, but it wasn't intended to be so. And how was it then with your statement that people who believe that the Nazis were right winged are uneducated and ill informed, accusing nearly the whole German population of it? I'm not to take that serious either? If I was you I would start with thinking BEFORE spouting out these things. To know where the Nazis were standing you would have to know the entire political system in Germany at that time, which you clearly do not, otherwise you wouldn't say the things you do with such force. The Nazis of WWII were socialists. The government owned everything. They guaranteed a certain level of income and jobs to all citizens. They practiced eugenics, which was a VERY HOT socialist belief during the 20's - 40's. American socialists idealized the Nazis and practiced their own eugenics operations, which included Planned Parenthood (to deal with what Margaret Sanger called "The Negro Problem"). The Nazi government controlled every aspect of the peoples lives down to when the trains ran. Personal ownership is a conservative principle, not a Liberal one. In the US now, they want to take control of our auto industry. LIBERALS think that the government should be completely in charge while CONSERVATIVES believe in small government. The Nazis were a LIBERAL SOCIALIST party. I'm sorry if that is offensive, but I didn't bring it up to be offensive, but to correct MirrorMirror. None of you are offended that he said they were a far right wing organization and he hasn't tried even once to support that position. Your faux outrage shows that you are being dishonest. "I can't believe Spider would call the Nazis liberals!!!!!!!" But you don't even blink when the Nazis are called Conservative Christians. I know that you are someone who loves to be offended, so feel free to be offended by my post. Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him! This is blantantly false! Just read the Wiki article on Hitler and you'll see that Hitlers religious beliefs are totally contradictory to this. Hitler was antichristian. |
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I just wonder why some people feel the need to re-write German history? What gives?
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Well you keep claiming that we have to refute some argument you have made. I feel we have like ten times over now. Its just becoming ridiculous at this point. The photos were merely the last nail in the coffin. Start by refuting this: And I have quoted Hitler from during WWII. My quotes show him reviling Christianity in private. Your quotes have all been PUBLIC. So why don't you try to be intellectually honest, hmmmm? How do you explain his quotes from private? To his top advisers? How do you explain those? I have explained his quotes from public, he was using Christianity to control racist Christians. How do you explain his statements made in private which were also dictated by him? Also, sorry, but an anti-Christian website doesn't count as an "objective source". What difference would it make what he said in private? He was a narcissist and a crazy person though clearly a Christian. This is how he came to be in such a position of power with the support of both the Catholic and Protestant network. They both had absolutely no problem with his agenda. You can start by refuting that. His private statements reveal his true beliefs. His public statements were made to give him the appearance of Christianity. His private statements clearly reveal that Hitler had nothing but contempt for Christianity. That is an inescapable conclusion if you desire to be intellectually honest. If you are willing to say anything to slander Christianity, which you seem to be, then intellectually honesty probably doesn't carry much weight in your personal beliefs. Well try explaining that to 11 million dead Jews Spider. Better yet, you can take that argument to the Israeli government. |
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And that does make him left wing? And leaves the whole German population uneducated and ill informed? Go on. Next. Invisible, His policies make the Nazi party socialist. I have already posted them, why should I do it again? The post is there, read it yourself and refute it if you can. Ill informed? Yes, most people are about a lot of things. Many people will tell you that humans only use 10% of their brain, that is not true. Many people will tell you that Walt Disney was cryogenically frozen, that's not true either. The Nazis of WWII were very socialist in their policies, most people don't know that. Lots of people are ill informed, it's not an insult to be called so. |
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Invisible, I wasn't calling you a liar, I was explaining why Jess's post was a logical fallacy. If you want to be offended, the go right ahead. She is saying "Well, Invisible says it and she's a German, so it must be the truth", but that doesn't follow. I'm sure this is incredibly offensive to you, but it wasn't intended to be so. And how was it then with your statement that people who believe that the Nazis were right winged are uneducated and ill informed, accusing nearly the whole German population of it? I'm not to take that serious either? If I was you I would start with thinking BEFORE spouting out these things. To know where the Nazis were standing you would have to know the entire political system in Germany at that time, which you clearly do not, otherwise you wouldn't say the things you do with such force. The Nazis of WWII were socialists. The government owned everything. They guaranteed a certain level of income and jobs to all citizens. They practiced eugenics, which was a VERY HOT socialist belief during the 20's - 40's. American socialists idealized the Nazis and practiced their own eugenics operations, which included Planned Parenthood (to deal with what Margaret Sanger called "The Negro Problem"). The Nazi government controlled every aspect of the peoples lives down to when the trains ran. Personal ownership is a conservative principle, not a Liberal one. In the US now, they want to take control of our auto industry. LIBERALS think that the government should be completely in charge while CONSERVATIVES believe in small government. The Nazis were a LIBERAL SOCIALIST party. I'm sorry if that is offensive, but I didn't bring it up to be offensive, but to correct MirrorMirror. None of you are offended that he said they were a far right wing organization and he hasn't tried even once to support that position. Your faux outrage shows that you are being dishonest. "I can't believe Spider would call the Nazis liberals!!!!!!!" But you don't even blink when the Nazis are called Conservative Christians. I know that you are someone who loves to be offended, so feel free to be offended by my post. Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs. Nor did the Vatican's Pope & bishops ever disown him; in fact they blessed him! This is blantantly false! Just read the Wiki article on Hitler and you'll see that Hitlers religious beliefs are totally contradictory to this. Hitler was antichristian. Hitler was a Catholic. |
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Well you keep claiming that we have to refute some argument you have made. I feel we have like ten times over now. Its just becoming ridiculous at this point. The photos were merely the last nail in the coffin. Start by refuting this: And I have quoted Hitler from during WWII. My quotes show him reviling Christianity in private. Your quotes have all been PUBLIC. So why don't you try to be intellectually honest, hmmmm? How do you explain his quotes from private? To his top advisers? How do you explain those? I have explained his quotes from public, he was using Christianity to control racist Christians. How do you explain his statements made in private which were also dictated by him? Also, sorry, but an anti-Christian website doesn't count as an "objective source". What difference would it make what he said in private? He was a narcissist and a crazy person though clearly a Christian. This is how he came to be in such a position of power with the support of both the Catholic and Protestant network. They both had absolutely no problem with his agenda. You can start by refuting that. How can you state that Hitler was a christian when you have no clue what a christian even is? When the christians on this thread tell you that by no means was Hitler a christian you come on here and argue from a perspective of ignorance. Which refutes anything you have to say - because you cannot support your argument by displaying on your post your knowledge of chrisatianity and what is is about Hitler that made him one so that you can prove us wrong. Now defend that refutation. |
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Well try explaining that to 11 million dead Jews Spider. Better yet, you can take that argument to the Israeli government. Appeal to Pity. "11 million Jews died, so I must be right!"  Where the heck did you get that number anyways? It was around 6 million Jews, not 11. And why would they say that it was Christians who were killing them when Christians were in the camps next to them? |
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Edited by
invisible
on
Sun 12/14/08 10:19 AM
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And that does make him left wing? And leaves the whole German population uneducated and ill informed? Go on. Next. Invisible, His policies make the Nazi party socialist. I have already posted them, why should I do it again? The post is there, read it yourself and refute it if you can. Ill informed? Yes, most people are about a lot of things. Many people will tell you that humans only use 10% of their brain, that is not true. Many people will tell you that Walt Disney was cryogenically frozen, that's not true either. The Nazis of WWII were very socialist in their policies, most people don't know that. Lots of people are ill informed, it's not an insult to be called so. His policies made his party ultra right wing. Not moving forward, but trying to bring back older times. How more conservative can it get? And it was you who stated that people who think that the Nazis are right wing are uneducated and ill informed, in that case it would be the whole German population, including those who were there, like my grandmother. Or are you claiming now that you never said that? |
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Spider stop being so mean to people and let them voice their opinions without a lot of insults alright? That is that person's opinion of Invisible and so far from what I have read, she seems to know what she is talking about and is very objective. If you feel the need to discredit her, then do so. Locate information that clearly is in conflict with anything she has stated thus far. Of course her having stated that invisible is the ONLY one posting on this subject who can speak on this matter because her heritage is German - is an opinion not possibly based on fact - so why is her opinion even considered. It's one thing to have an opinion - it is another think to have that opinion supported by fact. This is not to take anything away from what Invisible may or may not know about this toipic - but she knows NOTHING about all of the posters on this topic to attempt to make a comparison. Thus - Spiders post. Nothing mean spirited about what he said. In fact, his post was made more out of concern for the fact that more information is needed in that post to lend it even an ounce of respectability. I would make the same challenge to you as Spider. Publicly discredit both Invisible or I in respect to our historical data thus brought forth. Also, get to work on Seamonster's photos if you will. Krimsa, We have made an argument, which you haven't successfully refuted or even tried to refute. Hitler used a racist interpretation of Christianity to control racist Christians. His beliefs weren't actually supported by Christianity and in private he reviled Christianity. Please refute that. Why would he mock and revile Christianity in private if he was a Christian? Scroll back We have layered quotes, speeches, photographic evidence over a couple comments that may or may not have been made by Hitler in a private setting. I have not even bothered to research their validity yet. Im assuming they came from some Christian website. Even if they were true you have not refuted these facts. Hitler was Catholic. He was endorsed by both the Protestant and Catholic church. He used his Christian based beliefs in order to further create a divide and to nurture the already prevailing feeling of anti-Semitic hostilities that were in existence in pre-WW2 Germany amongst it's citizenry. |
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I just wonder why some people feel the need to re-write German history? What gives? They don't want to re-write it, they just want to be selective about what they are willing to speak about. It's selective History. Since there isn't anyone on this thread who was even alive during this period of history - all information being displayed is due to reading what someone else has reported about it. |
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And that does make him left wing? And leaves the whole German population uneducated and ill informed? Go on. Next. Invisible, His policies make the Nazi party socialist. I have already posted them, why should I do it again? The post is there, read it yourself and refute it if you can. Ill informed? Yes, most people are about a lot of things. Many people will tell you that humans only use 10% of their brain, that is not true. Many people will tell you that Walt Disney was cryogenically frozen, that's not true either. The Nazis of WWII were very socialist in their policies, most people don't know that. Lots of people are ill informed, it's not an insult to be called so. His policies made his party ultra right wing. Not moving forward, but trying to bring back older times. How more conservative can it get? No, they didn't! Stop saying that and actually learn something. The Nazis: 1) Socialized all businesses. 2) Gave every citizen a job and a stipend to live on. 3) Practiced Eugenics (a very liberal progressive position at that time) 4) Started many programs to improve and change Germany. Conservatives believe in private owership, small government and that all people should have equal rights. His policies weren't conservative, they were socialist. |
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And it was you who stated that people who think that the Nazis are right wing are uneducated and ill informed, in that case it would be the whole German population, including those who were there, like my grandmother. Or are you claiming now that you never said that? Appeal to Authority "My grandmother is a German, so she must be right!" 
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