Topic: Take Your Flag And Stove It
damnitscloudy's photo
Sat 10/11/08 12:49 PM

:smile: I would just like to paraphrase some of my abolitionist heroes.:smile:

I will show you that slavery is wrong.

I will show you that slavery is wrong by the laws of man.

I will show you slavery is wrong by the Laws Of GOD.

And if that don't work,

I will show you slavery is wrong with my fists,my knives, and my guns.


And mirror is from Kentucky, so we know he has knives and guns. Everyone in the state does laugh drinker

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 10/11/08 12:58 PM


:smile: I would just like to paraphrase some of my abolitionist heroes.:smile:

I will show you that slavery is wrong.

I will show you that slavery is wrong by the laws of man.

I will show you slavery is wrong by the Laws Of GOD.

And if that don't work,

I will show you slavery is wrong with my fists,my knives, and my guns.


And mirror is from Kentucky, so we know he has knives and guns. Everyone in the state does laugh drinker
:smile: The most famous abolitionist in Kentucky said that, and he meant it:smile:

Chazster's photo
Sat 10/11/08 01:30 PM




king in his famous speech said I have a dream...that means to look forward...but how can the black move forward when ya'll are still stuck in the past...that means the man died for nothing...he shed his blood for you to whine and complain ***** and moan about a flag...come on now...
you move forward and bury that flag, then get back to me. I should forget my heritage but you can keep waving yours.


Because, whether we like it or not they have the right to do that. Hell, Skin heads, KKK, etc all have the right to form parades etc. Just because we don't like what they do doesnt make it illegal.
so then you agree I have the right to speak also?


Yes, I believe you have the right to speak just like them. I also think you are wrong, just like them.

no photo
Sat 10/11/08 02:29 PM
Edited by OneMoreTimeAround on Sat 10/11/08 02:30 PM


Enderra,

I've read some of your other posts, you are by no means an ignorant person. I've also read some of your poems and creative writings, which lead me to believe that you are a person of great depth.

This is by no means anything to "attack" you or your beliefs or your COLOR by any shape form or fashion, but the person who wrote the other posts, doesn't seem like the same person here.

What did you hope to accomplish by posting this? Was it to enlightened those you feel were ignorant of what your ancestors dealt with or that the confederate flag was perceived as racist to all black people? If so, IMO, you will NEVER achieve any enlightenment by becoming the very thing you cry out so loudly against...and that's a racist. I don't consider myself one, but some of your comments, I have PERCEIVED as being very racist!

I've never done it, but my brother traced my ancestors and they came here as INDENTURED servants...that's nothing but a fancy name for slavery. They had to work until they had "paid" for their trip here and how was it decided how much work they had to do that would "pay" for their trip to this land?

Do you want the confederate flag wiped out totally because some people perceive it as racist? It won't happen...some people don't perceive it that way and those who do are usually narrow minded people who wouldn't change their beliefs no matter how many facts were put in front of them.

Do you want an apology from every white person? I won't apologize for something I didn't do, had no control over, and would not have participated in, had I been there and given a choice.

Some of your comments, I PERCEIVED as blanket comments. Not all white people are racist, not all confederate flag wavers believe it to stand as a semblence of slavery, not all southerners are racist.

I don't like cliches, but I'll use this one. You'll catch more flies with honey then you ever will with vinegar and some of your remarks, I, and I'm speaking for only myself, perceive them as being full of vinegar.




huh Your all wrong.:smile: Indentured servitutde was nothing like slavery.:smile: How would you like to be raped whenever you owner felt like it,and watch your children be sold and molested and murdered and raped for hundreds of years?huh Over and over and over again?huh You CANT understand how that feels.:smile: You cant understand what that is to tell your children down thru the generations and what that means.:smile:


First of all, I prefaced anything I thought was being said, as "I preceived" such, which meant that how I was taking what the OP was saying could be perceived in another manner and I never stated anywhere that it was right or wrong and no where did I say that the things that happened to her ancestors didn't happen!

I asked questions, period. None of which was answered and that again is the OP's right not to do so.

I stated in a previous post here that if she..or anyone else for that matter BELIEVED, for whatever reason, that the flag was a racist flag, then for that person, it was.

As far as the some of the other statements in my post, and again, it all comes down to how it's PERCEIVED...what I was trying to say was that if ANYONE wants to try to make a change, it doesn't normally happen by becoming the very thing that someone wants to change.

I have not, or I never intended, for any of my statements to imply that anything the OP felt was right or wrong, simply that perhaps there was a better way of trying to achieve certain results.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 10/11/08 03:12 PM



Enderra,

I've read some of your other posts, you are by no means an ignorant person. I've also read some of your poems and creative writings, which lead me to believe that you are a person of great depth.

This is by no means anything to "attack" you or your beliefs or your COLOR by any shape form or fashion, but the person who wrote the other posts, doesn't seem like the same person here.

What did you hope to accomplish by posting this? Was it to enlightened those you feel were ignorant of what your ancestors dealt with or that the confederate flag was perceived as racist to all black people? If so, IMO, you will NEVER achieve any enlightenment by becoming the very thing you cry out so loudly against...and that's a racist. I don't consider myself one, but some of your comments, I have PERCEIVED as being very racist!

I've never done it, but my brother traced my ancestors and they came here as INDENTURED servants...that's nothing but a fancy name for slavery. They had to work until they had "paid" for their trip here and how was it decided how much work they had to do that would "pay" for their trip to this land?

Do you want the confederate flag wiped out totally because some people perceive it as racist? It won't happen...some people don't perceive it that way and those who do are usually narrow minded people who wouldn't change their beliefs no matter how many facts were put in front of them.

Do you want an apology from every white person? I won't apologize for something I didn't do, had no control over, and would not have participated in, had I been there and given a choice.

Some of your comments, I PERCEIVED as blanket comments. Not all white people are racist, not all confederate flag wavers believe it to stand as a semblence of slavery, not all southerners are racist.

I don't like cliches, but I'll use this one. You'll catch more flies with honey then you ever will with vinegar and some of your remarks, I, and I'm speaking for only myself, perceive them as being full of vinegar.




huh Your all wrong.:smile: Indentured servitutde was nothing like slavery.:smile: How would you like to be raped whenever you owner felt like it,and watch your children be sold and molested and murdered and raped for hundreds of years?huh Over and over and over again?huh You CANT understand how that feels.:smile: You cant understand what that is to tell your children down thru the generations and what that means.:smile:


First of all, I prefaced anything I thought was being said, as "I preceived" such, which meant that how I was taking what the OP was saying could be perceived in another manner and I never stated anywhere that it was right or wrong and no where did I say that the things that happened to her ancestors didn't happen!

I asked questions, period. None of which was answered and that again is the OP's right not to do so.

I stated in a previous post here that if she..or anyone else for that matter BELIEVED, for whatever reason, that the flag was a racist flag, then for that person, it was.

As far as the some of the other statements in my post, and again, it all comes down to how it's PERCEIVED...what I was trying to say was that if ANYONE wants to try to make a change, it doesn't normally happen by becoming the very thing that someone wants to change.

I have not, or I never intended, for any of my statements to imply that anything the OP felt was right or wrong, simply that perhaps there was a better way of trying to achieve certain results.
flowerforyou :heart: flowerforyou Hugz-n-kisses darlin'flowerforyou :heart: flowerforyou

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 10/11/08 03:15 PM
Edited by MirrorMirror on Sat 10/11/08 03:16 PM
flowerforyou I suppose I'm just a little biased against the Confederate flag considering the local KKK threatened to kill me 5 years ago because I fired some of them for running their hateful mouths on the job.flowerforyou My only regret is I wish I could fire them again.flowerforyou

no photo
Sat 10/11/08 03:16 PM




Enderra,

I've read some of your other posts, you are by no means an ignorant person. I've also read some of your poems and creative writings, which lead me to believe that you are a person of great depth.

This is by no means anything to "attack" you or your beliefs or your COLOR by any shape form or fashion, but the person who wrote the other posts, doesn't seem like the same person here.

What did you hope to accomplish by posting this? Was it to enlightened those you feel were ignorant of what your ancestors dealt with or that the confederate flag was perceived as racist to all black people? If so, IMO, you will NEVER achieve any enlightenment by becoming the very thing you cry out so loudly against...and that's a racist. I don't consider myself one, but some of your comments, I have PERCEIVED as being very racist!

I've never done it, but my brother traced my ancestors and they came here as INDENTURED servants...that's nothing but a fancy name for slavery. They had to work until they had "paid" for their trip here and how was it decided how much work they had to do that would "pay" for their trip to this land?

Do you want the confederate flag wiped out totally because some people perceive it as racist? It won't happen...some people don't perceive it that way and those who do are usually narrow minded people who wouldn't change their beliefs no matter how many facts were put in front of them.

Do you want an apology from every white person? I won't apologize for something I didn't do, had no control over, and would not have participated in, had I been there and given a choice.

Some of your comments, I PERCEIVED as blanket comments. Not all white people are racist, not all confederate flag wavers believe it to stand as a semblence of slavery, not all southerners are racist.

I don't like cliches, but I'll use this one. You'll catch more flies with honey then you ever will with vinegar and some of your remarks, I, and I'm speaking for only myself, perceive them as being full of vinegar.




huh Your all wrong.:smile: Indentured servitutde was nothing like slavery.:smile: How would you like to be raped whenever you owner felt like it,and watch your children be sold and molested and murdered and raped for hundreds of years?huh Over and over and over again?huh You CANT understand how that feels.:smile: You cant understand what that is to tell your children down thru the generations and what that means.:smile:


First of all, I prefaced anything I thought was being said, as "I preceived" such, which meant that how I was taking what the OP was saying could be perceived in another manner and I never stated anywhere that it was right or wrong and no where did I say that the things that happened to her ancestors didn't happen!

I asked questions, period. None of which was answered and that again is the OP's right not to do so.

I stated in a previous post here that if she..or anyone else for that matter BELIEVED, for whatever reason, that the flag was a racist flag, then for that person, it was.

As far as the some of the other statements in my post, and again, it all comes down to how it's PERCEIVED...what I was trying to say was that if ANYONE wants to try to make a change, it doesn't normally happen by becoming the very thing that someone wants to change.

I have not, or I never intended, for any of my statements to imply that anything the OP felt was right or wrong, simply that perhaps there was a better way of trying to achieve certain results.
flowerforyou :heart: flowerforyou Hugz-n-kisses darlin'flowerforyou :heart: flowerforyou


In that case...c'mere!! :heart: smooched smooched

and...thank you!

Winx's photo
Sat 10/11/08 03:31 PM

flowerforyou I suppose I'm just a little biased against the Confederate flag considering the local KKK threatened to kill me 5 years ago because I fired some of them for running their hateful mouths on the job.flowerforyou My only regret is I wish I could fire them again.flowerforyou


:heart: flowerforyou

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 10/11/08 03:44 PM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 10/11/08 03:45 PM


flowerforyou I suppose I'm just a little biased against the Confederate flag considering the local KKK threatened to kill me 5 years ago because I fired some of them for running their hateful mouths on the job.flowerforyou My only regret is I wish I could fire them again.flowerforyou


:heart: flowerforyou


drinker drinker drinker Hell ya. People need to respect others. Regardless of race or gender, etc. We are all of the human race after all.

I know what you mean, it's easy to develope biased views against people that mean you bodily harm. After the war i had trouble trusting anyone muslim. Always sat with my back towards the wall, got nervous in crowds, but when i saw somalis running around in their get up, i was REALLY on my guard. Hell even sitting next to them in class i always made sure i kept one eye on them, and i was READY to strike in defense at the first sign of a threat. Silly thing is i fought against IRAQI insurgents not Somali. What's sadder than that is quite often muslims are more forgiving and peaceful than most people. It took me a while to get over it all...

The thing is profiling and catagorizing like that is a survival instinct. The confederate flag should never stand for slavery. They are disgracing the flag by using it as such. The flag stands for a group of people fighting against federal control. Hell, if the states still had most of the power, like originally intended, most of the corruption probably wouldn't exist. But who knows.

All i know is those confederates fought hard. Nobody fights that hard to keep their slaves.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sat 10/11/08 04:42 PM
Edited by MirrorMirror on Sat 10/11/08 04:46 PM



flowerforyou I suppose I'm just a little biased against the Confederate flag considering the local KKK threatened to kill me 5 years ago because I fired some of them for running their hateful mouths on the job.flowerforyou My only regret is I wish I could fire them again.flowerforyou


:heart: flowerforyou


drinker drinker drinker Hell ya. People need to respect others. Regardless of race or gender, etc. We are all of the human race after all.

I know what you mean, it's easy to develope biased views against people that mean you bodily harm. After the war i had trouble trusting anyone muslim. Always sat with my back towards the wall, got nervous in crowds, but when i saw somalis running around in their get up, i was REALLY on my guard. Hell even sitting next to them in class i always made sure i kept one eye on them, and i was READY to strike in defense at the first sign of a threat. Silly thing is i fought against IRAQI insurgents not Somali. What's sadder than that is quite often muslims are more forgiving and peaceful than most people. It took me a while to get over it all...

The thing is profiling and catagorizing like that is a survival instinct. The confederate flag should never stand for slavery. They are disgracing the flag by using it as such. The flag stands for a group of people fighting against federal control. Hell, if the states still had most of the power, like originally intended, most of the corruption probably wouldn't exist. But who knows.

All i know is those confederates fought hard. Nobody fights that hard to keep their slaves.
:smile: Yes they do.:smile: People fight the hardest for their their money:smile: Im sorry friend, but I gotta disagree with you about the flag.:smile: The Confederate flag represents slavery and the old south stood for, and fought for slavery.:smile: The entire south was an armed camp to keep blacks imprisoned.:smile: This is a fact. :smile: I can cite historical sources to back up everything Im saying.:smile: Thats as logical about it as I can get.:smile: A lot of people like "Gone With The Wind", but it was only a book(and movie).:smile: The old south and the Confederacy was not really like that.:smile: In reality, it was a massive armed camp built around slavery.:smile:

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 10/11/08 05:53 PM




flowerforyou I suppose I'm just a little biased against the Confederate flag considering the local KKK threatened to kill me 5 years ago because I fired some of them for running their hateful mouths on the job.flowerforyou My only regret is I wish I could fire them again.flowerforyou


:heart: flowerforyou


drinker drinker drinker Hell ya. People need to respect others. Regardless of race or gender, etc. We are all of the human race after all.

I know what you mean, it's easy to develope biased views against people that mean you bodily harm. After the war i had trouble trusting anyone muslim. Always sat with my back towards the wall, got nervous in crowds, but when i saw somalis running around in their get up, i was REALLY on my guard. Hell even sitting next to them in class i always made sure i kept one eye on them, and i was READY to strike in defense at the first sign of a threat. Silly thing is i fought against IRAQI insurgents not Somali. What's sadder than that is quite often muslims are more forgiving and peaceful than most people. It took me a while to get over it all...

The thing is profiling and catagorizing like that is a survival instinct. The confederate flag should never stand for slavery. They are disgracing the flag by using it as such. The flag stands for a group of people fighting against federal control. Hell, if the states still had most of the power, like originally intended, most of the corruption probably wouldn't exist. But who knows.

All i know is those confederates fought hard. Nobody fights that hard to keep their slaves.
:smile: Yes they do.:smile: People fight the hardest for their their money:smile: Im sorry friend, but I gotta disagree with you about the flag.:smile: The Confederate flag represents slavery and the old south stood for, and fought for slavery.:smile: The entire south was an armed camp to keep blacks imprisoned.:smile: This is a fact. :smile: I can cite historical sources to back up everything Im saying.:smile: Thats as logical about it as I can get.:smile: A lot of people like "Gone With The Wind", but it was only a book(and movie).:smile: The old south and the Confederacy was not really like that.:smile: In reality, it was a massive armed camp built around slavery.:smile:


I'll ge back to you on that. My uncle is a MAJOR civil war buff. He's writing a book about it as we speak. He can set me on the right track and give me some leads on some info...

IndnPrncs's photo
Sat 10/11/08 05:54 PM




flowerforyou I suppose I'm just a little biased against the Confederate flag considering the local KKK threatened to kill me 5 years ago because I fired some of them for running their hateful mouths on the job.flowerforyou My only regret is I wish I could fire them again.flowerforyou


:heart: flowerforyou


drinker drinker drinker Hell ya. People need to respect others. Regardless of race or gender, etc. We are all of the human race after all.

I know what you mean, it's easy to develope biased views against people that mean you bodily harm. After the war i had trouble trusting anyone muslim. Always sat with my back towards the wall, got nervous in crowds, but when i saw somalis running around in their get up, i was REALLY on my guard. Hell even sitting next to them in class i always made sure i kept one eye on them, and i was READY to strike in defense at the first sign of a threat. Silly thing is i fought against IRAQI insurgents not Somali. What's sadder than that is quite often muslims are more forgiving and peaceful than most people. It took me a while to get over it all...

The thing is profiling and catagorizing like that is a survival instinct. The confederate flag should never stand for slavery. They are disgracing the flag by using it as such. The flag stands for a group of people fighting against federal control. Hell, if the states still had most of the power, like originally intended, most of the corruption probably wouldn't exist. But who knows.

All i know is those confederates fought hard. Nobody fights that hard to keep their slaves.
:smile: Yes they do.:smile: People fight the hardest for their their money:smile: Im sorry friend, but I gotta disagree with you about the flag.:smile: The Confederate flag represents slavery and the old south stood for, and fought for slavery.:smile: The entire south was an armed camp to keep blacks imprisoned.:smile: This is a fact. :smile: I can cite historical sources to back up everything Im saying.:smile: Thats as logical about it as I can get.:smile: A lot of people like "Gone With The Wind", but it was only a book(and movie).:smile: The old south and the Confederacy was not really like that.:smile: In reality, it was a massive armed camp built around slavery.:smile:


(((Lee))) you're not saying the civil war was for slavery are you?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 10/11/08 10:05 PM
Edited by Drivinmenutz on Sat 10/11/08 10:11 PM
Ok, here we go.

The Civil War started in 1861.

The Emancipation Proclamation was written in 1963.

The Emancipation Proclamation is the document that freed most of the slaves and it wasn't written until 2 years into the war. So what the hell were they fighting for to begin with?

Also, the Emancipation Proclamation only made slavery illegal in the States that were actually rebelling. Meaning, in neutral states and/or areas, slavery was still legal after the civil war. He removed slavery as a punishment for rebelling.



"Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.

And by virtue of the power, and for the purpose aforesaid,:smile: I do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated States, and parts of States, are, and henceforward shall be free;:smile: and that the Executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons."

-Emancipation Proclamation

K, now im checking to see when slavery was abolished in the other territories....

no photo
Sat 10/11/08 11:10 PM
You wonder why it took until 1863 for Lincoln to abolish slavery? When he was up for relection his major opponent in the Republican Primary was running on an abolitionist platform while Lincoln was running on a Union platform. He freed the slaves at that particular time to undermine the platform and voting base of his abolitionist opposition.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sat 10/11/08 11:19 PM
Interesting.... Hadn't thought of that yet. Thanks for the info.drinker

I'm still thinkin slavery wasnt the big issue of the civil war. I'm thinking it was more along the lines for state rights and their protection. As well as economical protection. Who knows. I guess different people would have fought for different things. I'm pretty sure many of the Confederates were against slavery. I'll do some more research later...

elwoodsully's photo
Sat 10/11/08 11:25 PM

Yes, I would be the first to fly a peace, united human race flag, were one ever to exist.

What I am saying is why is it ok for jewish people to be offended by the use of the swastika and for everyone to get why the people who use it are racist? But oh no the confederate flag should be respected.


I'm a white guy of Irish, German, and Danish heritage, and I'm offended by a swastika. It started as a Chinese symbol for luck and prosperity, and Hitler turned it into something evil and nasty.

no photo
Sat 10/11/08 11:26 PM
Read the South Carolina Congressional Record of the debates about succession and you will see its all about economics, trade tariff and price fixing of cotton by the North. The North set a price for cotton that was not viable economically in the south and then, when the south threatened to trade their cotton to England, France, and Spain, the northern majority congress placed trade restrictions and tariffs to stop them.

no photo
Sat 10/11/08 11:30 PM
If the British had won the Revolutionary War the Stars and Stripes would be a rebel flag.

damnitscloudy's photo
Sat 10/11/08 11:42 PM
Wow this thread is still going? O_O

faithnomoread's photo
Sun 10/12/08 01:07 AM
Edited by faithnomoread on Sun 10/12/08 01:15 AM


Yes, I would be the first to fly a peace, united human race flag, were one ever to exist.

What I am saying is why is it ok for jewish people to be offended by the use of the swastika and for everyone to get why the people who use it are racist? But oh no the confederate flag should be respected.


I'm a white guy of Irish, German, and Danish heritage, and I'm offended by a swastika. It started as a Chinese symbol for luck and prosperity, and Hitler turned it into something evil and nasty.

I don't know about Chinese, but I know it is an Indian (India) Symbol for peace. I know Indians who are quite offended that their symbol has been used by a hateful people for a hateful purpose.