....learning from mistakes and survival of the fattest isnt
evolution as you are still a human..... its learning and adapting. not
changing into another species.

I just read sometime interesting about evolution and cancer: here's a
link you can copy and paste

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070416160429.htm

"No Solution To Cancer: Have Our Genes Evolved To Turn Against Us?"

I don't have any remark to say because I'm still wondering the
implications, the last two paragraphs inparticular, article brings up.

What really cracks me up are the people who denounce evolution for lack
of ‘proof’ and then go running off to believe in an ancient fairytale
that has much less proof behind it.

It’s obvious that such people are totally irrational so attempting to
convince them of anything rational would be hopeless.

I say let them believe whatever they want.

That won’t change the fact that rational people can still understand
that evolution most certainly did occur.

Religious people tried to denounce scientists when they said that the
stars are actually other suns. But now everyone knows that this is
true.

Religious people tried to denounce scientists when they said that there
was no such thing as a homunculus and that women actually contribute to
the features of their offspring. But now everyone knows that this is
true.

Religious people tried to denounce scientists when they said that the
earth is not the center of the universe. But now everyone knows that
this is true.

Religious people tried to denounce scientists when they said that the
earth is over four billion years old. But now everyone knows that this
is true.

The list goes on and on and on.

Evolution is no differnet. Religious people will finally give up and
embrace it. They have no choice because like all the other discovers of
science evolution is also true. It’s just a matter of time before the
religious people finally accept it.

It takes religious people a long time to accept these things. Religious
people are slow.

But they’ll eventually have no choice but to face the truth once again.

But not to worry, somehow, they’ll fix up their interpretation of their
doctrine and keep their fairytale alive.

They always do!

Gotta give em credit for that!

Ram - At one time people only knew other people who looked like them.
Eventually, the Romans, the Greeks extended beyond the little villiages
and towns and people who looked different than what each was used to
seeing came into view.

Many considered these people outside the species. As late as just 100
years ago, the African was considered some other species, by many,
mostly Christians.

The point is, that when talking about transformation, we are not talking
about transforming from one species to another. Recent information
indicates that we may have intermingled our DNA with another species,
but they were still people. They looked different, just like many
people do today, but they had every human attribute we still posess
today.

Crossing the lines of evolution does not mean changing from a bird to a
human. It simply means that what we began as, has changed over eons.
Our DNA holds every part of every change that has been made as far back
as our first ancester. How far is that?

Recent DNA studies of several populations suggest that modern humans:

* originated in Africa
* appeared in one founding population
* evolved around 170,000 years ago
* migrated to other parts of the world to replace other hominids

What that means, is that we can only be traced as to 170,000 years ago.
What did we look like then? Check out eveolution. Now consider what we
might have looked like 2 or 3 billion years ago? A group of cells? Why
not? After all, there were other species of a human nature, some
developed close enough to our own DNA that we could have mated with
them.

I believe that we are created for an action of God, but through
evolution.

abra... still looking for one (1) example based on science that shows
how creationism is merley a myth. ive got thousands that question
evolution. also, you seem to think that evolution is a fact, which it is
not. its a theory. darwinism has been a religion for what? 150 years?
and its full of holes. i wont go into them you can review my posts if
you wish. creationism has been around as a theory for thousands of years
and no one has been able to blow a hole in it yet. hmmmmmm
keep in mind that i used to be just like you. i believed what i was
taught in the govt sponsered schools... when i researched it myself,
looking at it obj=ectivly and using the scientific method, guess what? i
folded on evolution, recognising it as a religion for athiests, and
those who would believe what they are told instead of really digging
ibnto it.
as for the early churches and thier mistakes... i wasent there. wasent
behind thier nonsense. Please dont declare me in the dark ages because
i believe in creationism. i have very solid science and math behind my
decision on this matter.

rambill
“Please dont declare me in the dark ages because
i believe in creationism. i have very solid science and math behind my
decision on this matter.”

You have science and math supporting what?

A compelling reason to believe in creationism?

Or a compelling reason not to believe in evolution?

Can you list the conclusions of your major points in a bullet form?

No need to prove them. I’m just curious what your major points are.

I might actually agree with them. Who knows?

Maybe you’ll convince me to change my view.

read the posts in this thread. thats a good start. theres TONS OF INFO
out there , and more comming every day that shows how laughable
evolution is on its face. Darwin himself said that ther was no fossil
record to collaborate his claims, and that the future should show his
theory, which of course it hasent. The bible says all species reprouduce
ACCORDING TO THIER KIND.
What does the record actually show when we look at it? every species
pops up, exists for a time, and then goes extinct, exactly as the bible
said. a germ that adapts and becomes more resistant is not evolving, it
is adapting. it is still the same germ species in the microscope. the
odds against even a single celled organism creating itself is 10 to the
123rd power. Realise that this number is larger than all the atoms in
the universe! are you sure you want to bet against me with odds like
that?

Ram, sorry, but it seems that you are, once again the focus of the
hours. You wrote:

"""when i researched it myself,
looking at it obj=ectivly and using the scientific method, guess what? i
folded on evolution, recognising it as a religion for athiests, and
those who would believe what they are told instead of really digging
ibnto it."""

Exactly how far did you have to dig to believe in creation. How many
archialogical expeditions have turned up more proof for creationism than
for eveolution. How many of this planets creatures/species did you
discover in you biblical studies. For that matter, how many hominids?
See definition, and by the this is the standard definition in the vast
majority of dictionarys in use today.

hominid (plural hominids)

1. Any primate of the family Hominidae; Homo sapiens is the only
surviving member - the others now being extinct.

In fact how much further did you or anyone go, to what lenghts did
creationists go to prove creation, outside a single book.

As I have said in the past, to use a book to prove the information in
that same book, is not science, creative thinking, maybe, but wasted
effort.

If science is so insufficient that you can not bear to see any truth
whatsoever within the study of eveolution, perhaps you also grow your
own food, and do not rely on so much as an asparin. True?

Well, ram, since you wouldn’t list your major points I just went go back
and read all your posts in this thread to see what your points are. You
haven’t made a single solitary point in this entire thread that is even
worth responding to. Everything that you object to is based on a total
misunderstanding of science.

You keep comparing evolution to things coming together by ‘accident’.
That single point right there shows that you have absolutely no clue
whatsoever how evolution even works. Have you ever heard of DNA and
genetics? Things are hardly evolving by pure accident. Moreover,
there are very sound physical reasons why molecules aligned themselves
to form into earl cells even before DNA had developed. In fact
evolution began long before the earth even existed in the center of
stars with the creation of the elements.

After reading your posts it’s clear to me that you don’t understand the
theory of evolution at all. You talk about the chances of a house
blowing together by accident from scattered debris like as if that
should somehow be an argument that evolution couldn’t have occurred. Or
the chance of type letters accidentally coming together to form written
words if a printing shop exploded.

Those examples just clearly show that you don’t understand how evolution
works. Evolution is not about things just accidentally coming together
for no apparent reason. The processes of evolution are extremely well
understood. from why and how the elements formed in stars (that was no
accident), to how the very first cells come to be. To how DNA would
have ‘naturally arisen’ from the bonding of the known the chemicals
elements. To the how living creatures evolved via genetics after that.

I mean, all of your assertions about it just merely being ‘chance’ are
totally incorrect and unwarranted. Your posts clearly show that you are
totally uneducated concerned the theory of evolution. So your claim
that you have scientific proofs for your position is absurd. You don’t
even understand the principles behind the scientific method much less
have any proofs to challenge the conclusions of the theory of evolution.

Nothing personal ram, but your claim to have ‘scientific’ proofs of your
position is simple untrue.

You have nothing but a lot of misguided ideas that have absolutely
nothing whatsoever to do with the scientific theory of evolution.

The thing is, the facts, the "evidence," are the same NO MATTER WHAT you
believe.

The points made in this argument from both sides, therefore, are moot,
because you can't PROVE either one. It all boils down to what your
personal beliefs and perspectives are.

I believe in evolution, but I believe we were CREATED by God first, and
then further EVOLVED to what we are today.

I don't believe mankind, however, evolved (originated) from apes. I
believe apes are apes and humans are humans.

There's no sense, really, in arguing with a "nonbeliever" about any of
these kinds of issues because I don't think they'd ever be convinced of
any of it, unless God Himself came down and proved He really does exist.

And even then I'd still think some of them would claim it was all "smoke
and mirrors."

Very good point JeanC

The idea of CREATED EVOLUTION puts me even more in awe of the big guy.

to think that god created us knowing what we would need in the future
and making it possible for us (and all things) to EVOLVE at the time we
would be ready to do so.

Makes me wonder what we might evolve into as we continue to move into
the next level of our creation.

watt came first the chicken or the egg.as far as i know there is no
evidence for evolution plenty of evidence for extinction though.the
biodiversity of life on this planet is deminishing faster than we can
name watt is already in existence and is mostly due to the activities of
humanity.i dont no how it all came about and i know i never will there
are mysteries in life and they will never be solved Darwin doubted his
own theory .and a theory is only an idea that is intended to explain
something in the end darwin was a confused man .

ya know i was gone for about one week from this subject and you guys are
still fighting over which came first?The creationists or evolutionists.
Why doesn't everyone just say that there are conflicting theories, it is
one of those world mysteries, it will never be settled, and be done with
it. Start a new thread. Like how to stop world hunger, the drug problem,
working toward world peace and so on.

I absolutely agree with those who wish to believe in a 'created
evolution". I certainly believe this way.

The theory of evolution is NOT a religion. It makes absolutely no
statements about whether or not there is a supreme being. People who
believe that evolution is somehow an atheistic religion are totally
wrong.

Evolution is a scientific theory based on observations and nothing more.

People who want to pit Evolution against Christianity are simply saying
that if evolution is true then Christianity must be false. THEY are
the ones who are coming to that conclusion.

I personally have a myriad of reasons to reject Christianity as a
possible religion of my choice without even thinking about evolution.
So I have no need to worry about any incompatibilities that might exist
between Christianity and evolution.

evolution vs creation make up ya mind Abra in one breath you speak of
creation of elements in stars and then evolution took place due to that
creation ??????i dont have a clue watts goin on.

Well, Abra, I agree..but I suppose it does, if a person uses it to
"prove" or "disprove" one versus the other.

KariZman wrote:
“evolution vs creation make up ya mind Abra in one breath you speak of
creation of elements in stars and then evolution took place due to that
creation ??????i dont have a clue watts goin on.”

Using the word ‘create’ does not imply a deity at work. Your car
creates pollution. Creation by physical processes.

Besides, I’m not an atheist in the strictest sense of the word. I just
don’t believe in the dogma of Christianity. I believe that god is this
universe. And so are we. Therefore we are directly connected with god.
We cannot exist without god.

Precisely how it all works I don’t pretend to know. I just know that
the idea of god as a completely separate judgmental egotistical entity
is a very cold and uninviting concept to me. And if we are completely
separate from god like that then what they hell are we? For that to be
true we’d have to be individual entities in our own right. In other
words we have to exist independent of god in our own right if god is
completely separate from us.

I much prefer to believe that this universe is god and that I am
directly connected and part of god. I have no separate existence of my
own. I am this universe. I arose from it, and I will go back into it
when my physical body dies. I have always existed and I will never
cease to exist because I am this universe.

I am very comfortable with this picture of god. Christians are always
searching for a ‘higher purpose’. From my point of view god’s purpose
for me is to simply be who I am in this life. That *is* my purpose.
There is no higher mystery to solve.

Life is the answer to its own riddle. There is no other answer to seek.
God is this universe. Is so simple.

No need to keep searching for answers. Life is the answer. Appreciate
it, stand in awe of it. Realize that the universe is your home, it’s
where you belong, and every other living creature in this world is your
spiritual brother.

The idea of a separate egotistical god is so detrimental to this
beautiful picture. It causes people to think that life is just a
temporary place and we are all somehow separate little egos competing to
get into heaven. we lose respect for our home, our planet, our
brothers. We see people as being completely separate egos. Let those
basta*d find their own way to god! If they don’t shape up they’ll all
go to hell where they belong!

That’s the kind of attitudes that spring from thinking of god as an
external separate entity. Religions like Christianity breed bigotry and
hatred. They cause people to think of the is universe as just a
temporary place that they will be leaving when they go to heaven. They
show no respect for the universe or each other and instead of loving
each other and the universe they just want to kill each other and get
the hell out of here and go to heaven for the rest of eternity. That
kind of thinking is what destroys the human spirit.

Down with separate egotistical gods and idol worship! Learn to love the
universe that you are. Learn to love your fellow man who is genuinely
your brother in every imaginable sense of the word, and not just in some
artificial philosophical or moral sense.

We are all one. We are this universe. We are god. God is us. There is no
separate ego in the sky.

No confusion here KariZman. All my beliefs fit together perfectly. And
evolution fits right in like a glove.

Abra I so agree with you.

God is this universe.

I merely say it with diferent words.

God is in all things.

Because God is all things.

_______________________________________

Extinction... What happens to creatures that can not evolve or adapt to
the changing environment.

Possible proof of evolution... The recent discovery that T-Rex has the
same DNA as a chicken (if true) would mean that T-Rex evolved.

Oh boy....How I could talk for hours on this one