... LOL...

I rest my case.

Yes well expect more of the same when you attack people on these boards. BTW...you never answered my question about your own beliefs. So I take that for a YES. Yet you continue to attack me personally?

It makes me laugh. I think some need a sense of humor.

Q says:

Who knows what it will take for each person to make the decision to fully surrender to God Tribo. It's all about individual choices. Everyone's life experiences are different & so results vary...but we are the only ones in the way of God's move. That's the truth Tribo.

TRIBO REPLIES"

for you its the truth - but it does not answer my question - either the spirit of god teaches all the same truth or he does not. To me it is evident he does not or the body would not be divided - i can see it no other way quickie.

you talk of surrender - that is not what god/jesus promised - he promised that when the spirit of truth came it would give everyone of the believers "AL TRUTH" i have never seen this happen in my life nor do i think it will - Why? because its not possible, it's a story, no more no less. Even the apostles argued and rebuked over what god meant to do with the gentiles. So what hope does one have as an unbeliever to want to get into your faith? And which sect will he/she become and what set of truths will they believe and yadda,yadda,yadda.

In the beginning was A god, and A god said, who am i? and my god responded - you are who you are. And A god replied I am that i am? and my god said - you got it buddy. and he found out he could create things ans so he did not knowing what would happen and at first he felt it was good, and then he found out differently and he he said the heck with it and went on to better things, Tribo chpt 1 to be continued ------------











not

Voila!!!!!!!!

when you do know how to approach my post, you may not need to. LOL

The Spirit of God teaches everyone the same truth. Yes... everyone WILL experience the same revelation... the vary comes from the differing levels of faith.

If someone has trouble with belief then they won't be in agreement with God's word. Like the person who calls themself a Christian but steals. Why is he stealing if he's a Christain is anyone's guess but it doesn't make God a liar.

It's all about what man believes but nevertheless...God remains the same & we only recieve from Him when we surrender control to Him.

I haven't made personal attacks on people. That is yet another lie.

You, on the other hand, have attacked me personally, calling me an atheist.

I responded to that attack.

Get your bananas under control.

Be real clear woudlee that the spirit isn't as confusing, incoherent and 'exclusive' as you portray him.

That much I KNOW!!!

LOL.... Ok well I did think I saw a post where you said you were an atheist. If I was wrong then I humbly ask your forgiveness.

LOL...you certainly make it hard to be disagreeable there fella. LOL

Get my bananas under control??? LOL

your still missing what im saying Q


im not talking of such things as christians stealing - i'm talking of things of god not being understood to be the same by all. wouldee made the statement that only those of you who had the spirit could know the truth correct?

what i'm getting at is that even when you have this spirit you dont agree on the words of god, this is not about you - it's about gods ability through his spirit of truth that is to lead you in ALL TRUTHS not leading you to see ALL TRUTHS the same - do you get it yet??


Either what jesus said to the apostles was true or it was not! i say it is not! why? because i see no proof of it - i see disagreement of people who claim to have the spirit of truth even on here. also when i was in the faith, so how can this be if the spirit according to jesus was to teach in ALL truths, not just the core tenants?

i believe your all listening to your own minds conditioned by years of reading and praying and hanging out with other's of your faith. the talks you say you have with god are your own voices not his or his spirits. if this is not true then do me a favor ask him the questions i ask of you and get back to me with the spirits answers ok?

You just don't like the answer Tribo... Let God be true & every man a liar.

God's word is true every bit regardless of if men agree or disagree.

The only thing that gets in the way of God is humans. Why do you want to blame God for the choices we make?????

Please get back on topic folks, no attacking/insulting or hijacking the thread to carry out arguments.

Thank you,
Mark

Voile;

Give it a rest. If you have something to add to the discussion - fine. This post is below your skill level to contribute to the discussion. Get back on track! There are enough trolls on the site without your having to lower yourself to be one too. Sincerely.

lj

Eljay, are you a born again Christian?

JB

Is that what you think it is - blind faith? Not to bee facicious - but does Jesus have to walk through a wall and snap his fingers and cause your filet-of-fish sandwich to fill every room in the house to constitute proof? Perhaps you're under estimating what constitutes proof to a believer, and being a bit presumptuous to assume that those experiences in someone elses life have to pass your subjective premises of "proof". I know a number of addicts who would call your claim of "blind faith" to be blatently wrong. I've witnessed enough events in my life, and those who happen to pass through it that come a lot closer to the testamonies of scripture and it's claim to change lives that just can't be explained away by "coincidence". Despite what you need for proof for yourselves - these are not delusinal people who establish these changes in their lives as pretext - then run to the bible and say - see, see. It's not something that people jump up and down and shout about - despite the assumption that this is what goes on. It might be the way to bring money into the so-called-ministries that have invaded the airways, but this is not the evidence of true conversion.
Regretfully - these ministries exist, and leave wrong impressions. They leave people with a sense of blind understanding through an experience, as opposed to a conversion. I don't doubt that you are aware of the difference here.

Again - I'm well aware of your history with Christianity, and through this history, a subsequent rejection of it. However this experience does not extend to empathise with the experiences of others. You claim of a "blind faith" is one without substance or merit. I can't help but paraphrase Voile here - but "Faith is a personal thing - how can someone know the measure of someone else's faith"?

It's 30 cc of faith per pound of unbelief eljay - i thought you knew that???

Yes.

Tribo;

You've asked this question over and over - but I went back to this verson of it to get to the core of your inquiry.



There's just no way to tell what the "numbers" are. It's not like there is a destinguishable mark - like a third eye or a sixth finger that separates those who are truley converted from those who "name it and claim it". However, there is a difference. It leads to...



Obvious evidence that not everyone who claims to "have this truth" indeed - have it.



It is a start. There are historical tennets of christianity which those who are truely converted adhere to without question. Without having to list them all - they are basically found in "The Apostles Creed". Suffice enough to say that I'm sure of your awareness of it - so I'll leave it at that.



Yes - well there we get to the heart of a major issue within the body. Why these differences with the "minors" of scripture - yet agreement over the "Majors" in light of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit - who's purpose is to guide men to all truth. (There's no >s< on the end of that by the way).

For me - I have no definitive answer to this, in terms of an explination that can be universally supportd with obvious evidence. However, I have experienced a number of these different factions - from "Catholicism", to the fundamentalist "church of Christ" to the legalistic Cults of "the Way", Boston Church of Christ (ICC these days), to the liberal "Unity Church of Christianity", "Universalist", "Unity Church of Christ" and through to the off the wall pseudo-christian Cults - such as "Christian Science" and some of the "Vineyard" churches. Settling on the eventual more mainstream churches such as "Grace Chapel" and numerous non-denominational evangelical congregations. What I have noticed over the years - is that each of these "denominations" - or factions within Christianity adopt different methods of "teaching" or interpreting scripture in the sermons. Some chose a method of topical teaching - others chose a book and go line by line through it. It matters not which way is chosen - but the method by which the themes - or conclusions of these sermons differ greatly. I've seen numerous "pastors" state a Pretext, and utilize passages - often times out of context to support their pretext. Here the listener is put into a dillema of sorts. On one hand - they are under the assumption that the paster - being led by the H.S. himself, is demonstrating a truth, when in fact - it may be just a partial truth.
The difficulty comes in the "body" - or church if you will - not really knowing how to study the scriptures in the first place. The concept of exegesis and Context before Pretext is foreign to most believers. They are much like the disciples who stood there with blank stares on their faces while Jesus spoke to them in parables. They'd been led to believe that the text of the Old Testament had been taught to them correctly by the Rabbi's - however Jesus informed them that it was the blind leading the blind in this respect.
This runs rampant within the body. Though it can be demonstrated that little - if any of the text of scripture has changed through the centuries (despite what people may tell you) certainly not the main themes - however interpretation has run amok. It only takes one false teacher to lead hundreds - if not thousands astray. And these are people who are in positions of leadership - whose clever pretexts present themselves as biblical truths. Without understanding proper exegesis - partial truths are grasped.

So why doesn't the Holy Spirit "do something" about this you ask. It is one thing to lead someone to the truth - quite another to get them to understand it - grasp it and hold fast to it.
The parable of the seeds would be a good demonstration of this. What tends to be overlooked here though - is WHO Jesus was speaking to when he said "the H.S. will lead you to all truth." It was not the masses - like the sermon on the mount, nor were the sadduces or Pharosies there. It was the disciples. Those who had walked with him for three years - and remained with him. they were witnesses of the life that Jesus led, and the truths that he taught. The Holy spirit was to remind them of these truths, and to express others that were to come from Jesus directly - for he states that the Holy Spirit was not to speak for himself - but for Jesus. It is clear from the text - that learning these truths from Jesus was a process. Not something they grasped right away - but over a period of time as they were witness to what Jesus said and did. So too - would be the work of the Holy spirit. In examining other passages which relate to learning the truths of the gospel - it is clearly stated that these truths were understood by faith, and that faith was a measurable "entity" (for lack of a better word) Some were mature in their faith - others were but mere children - only grasping the basics. Therefore - by what basis would one expect that immediately upon conversion - that one would know or recognize "all truth" immediately. The text does not state that - it says that one would be led to it. Suggesting a journey - not an arrival.

Do I propose this as a definitive answer to your question? Surely not. (and don't call me Shirley)
Just a subjective conclusion on my part to explain that which clearly exists - through my experience of the paths I've witnessed that have brought this about. There was divisiveness in the church even during the time of Pauls missionary journeys. He adress it in his letters.
It is essentially the result of the weakness of man - as opposed to the shortcomings of the gospel message. For the gospel message is clear.
It is Christ crucified. Anything that deviates from that message is clearly not born out of testimony of the Holy spirit. Despite what one may claim.

Is this closer to what you were looking for?

Sorry - duplicate post