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| Topic: This may Get A Tad Heated | |
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when you wish upon a star doesn't matter who you....  and when you look into a mirror. sometimes things aren't very clear 
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Oh no, did I say something I shouldnt have? Is Deb mad again?
Mirror does that to all the girls, deb. Or so Im told. He fixates on a new one weekly.
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"Who knows what it will take for each person to make the decision to fully surrender to God Tribo. It's all about individual choices. Everyone's life experiences are different & so results vary...but we are the only ones in the way of God's move. That's the truth Tribo."\ I’m not exactly sure who said this but why would you NEED to surrender to anything and especially an organized religion? Why is submission a required tenant of this belief system? That to me is nonsensical and smacks of some kind of enslavement or thought control pattern. The OP has a right to know that not all religions or assents into spirituality require that you "give in" to something. That's horrible and unnecessary. Well put, and thanks for setting me up for these two points: 1) “responsible” is defined as "Involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority." So "to fully surrender to god" is nothing short of complete irresponsibility. 2) “slavery” is defined as "The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence."* So a religion that is founded on belief in an omnipotent God has slavery at it's very core. This quote really sums it up beautifully to me: "One who rejoices in his slavery, is a slave indeed." [Donning asbestos suit.] (*definitions are quoted from the American Heritage College Dictionary, Fourth Edition.) Yes well some slavery is better than others. For instance...freedom can be a form of slavery when it lacks accountability, things like drug abuse, alchoholism, porn etc...all produced from people's freedom of choice but not neccessarily a good thing. The only thing wrong about slavery are its abuses but we are ALL slaves to something. To think otherwise is fooling oneself. Self discipline is better than force but for those who LACK in self discipline there are intervening consequences. So if one has to surrender to anything it might as well be something for their good. Just sayin' That reply goes in a few different directions, so I’ll break it up… Yes well some slavery is better than others. Yes well some pedophiles are better than others too. But that doesn’t make them good. My POV says if I desire something do I work to attain it or steal it? My ethic says I'll work to get my needs met. Right? Cavemen days are over & we have courtesy & principles. Where did they come from but the Bible. It's not always the easy road that's the best one so when people say things like Do your own thing or who's gonna know...be sure you will be found out. Things we do have a way of catching up to us. Like the guy who thinks there's no harm in having a drink every night only to find that he wakes to to an addiction. We think we're in control but are we really? Our society today is ripe with all the consequences of bad decisions made by people. That's my point. Some things we think are choices only end up in slavery. For instance...freedom can be a form of slavery when it lacks accountability, things like drug abuse, alchoholism, porn etc...all produced from people's freedom of choice but not neccessarily a good thing. The only thing wrong about slavery are its abuses Saying “The only thing wrong about slavery are its abuses” is like saying “the only thing wrong with murder is that people die from it.” The thing that is wrong with slavery is that it denies self-determined choice. What you’re calling “abuses” do NOT come from the freedom of self-determined choice, but from addiction, which is (by definition) slavery. No...it comes from having priciples as taught by God & shed abroad into society. WE evolve...we can also see the results of past societies to know what works & what doesn't. Since that is true then we must say that America (based on biblical laws) was a success. That's proof enough for me. All you have to do is look at most other countries to know we have the best. It was better when people were more principled & self controlled but today they alone have to face their own consequences. Right? I'd rather be a slave to what's right & just than some man made rules that I clearly see don't work. So if one has to surrender to anything it might as well be something for their good. Let me paraphrase what you said there so you can understand my answer: “If one must choose something that will make his choices for him, he might as well choose something that would choose the same things that he would choose.” So I would answer this way: If you have the choice in the first place, then why give it away at all??? Well because that's the only way man can have true peace...by surrendering control of their inner man to God. Don't put down what has not been experienced yet.  I don't see it as being negative but more as an exciting adventure. Doesn't anyone have a flair for adventure anymore? Those who talk about dogma the most are the ones who are most comfrotable with it. See? but we are ALL slaves to something. Of course that statement cannot be either proven or disproven. So it is only a belief - which leads right back to the original issue I was trying to address in my first post. If you believe in an omnipotent god, then you cannot believe that absolute freedom is possible. The two are, by definition, mutually exclusive. Now since you (supposedly) have the ability to choose what you believe or don’t believe, then why would you choose to believe that you can never be totally free? Well actually...yes...being a slave doesn't neccessarily mean servitude. it could be addictions etc. As I stated above. Since we have the propensity to trip over ourselves when we are not looking... hmmm... Your replies are almost exclusively based on personal beliefs that are put forward as being absolute truths. So I’m just going to point out that we do not have agreement on the most fundamental premises and leave it at that. Peace. Well it's a complicated subject. This is a religion board & I do come from a place of faith as well as right/wrong & righteous/unrighteous & results/consequences. Seeing is sometimes believing. Peace & God blessings to you... 
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Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Mon 08/25/08 03:43 PM
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So by your logic since I’m also a non-believer in Christianity and you are a Christian I can now hold you directly responsible for ALL those that were murdered as Witches during "the burning times?" Gotcha... So should we hold you accountable for all the deceptions played on human life by devil worshippers? Be wary of those who come to destroy the soul. |
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Oh no, did I say something I shouldnt have? Is Deb mad again? Mirror does that to all the girls, deb. Or so Im told. He fixates on a new one weekly. Trust me to want to be friends......yep anything else no |
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I used to love "Devil Dogs" when I was a kid.
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I used to love "Devil Dogs" when I was a kid. i loved foot long chili cheese dogs - still do hahaha
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I used to love "Devil Dogs" when I was a kid. Why am I NOT surprized???? |
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So by your logic since I’m also a non-believer in Christianity and you are a Christian I can now hold you directly responsible for ALL those that were murdered as Witches during "the burning times?" Gotcha... So should we hold you accountable for all the deceptions played on human life by devil worshippers? Be wary of those who come to destroy the soul. Its time for a little wake up call here for Quickstop. The concept of a "devil" or "satan" or "demons" is ALL Christian based and Christian derived. It is intertwined with your polorized, dogmatic, fundamentalist sect. Wiccans, for example, have no concept of Satan found within their spirituality. Ironic isnt it? 
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I used to love "Devil Dogs" when I was a kid. Why am I NOT surprized???? Hey, they destroy waistlines, not souls. |
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So by your logic since I’m also a non-believer in Christianity and you are a Christian I can now hold you directly responsible for ALL those that were murdered as Witches during "the burning times?" Gotcha... So should we hold you accountable for all the deceptions played on human life by devil worshippers? Be wary of those who come to destroy the soul. Its time for a little wake up call here for Quickstop. The concept of a "devil" or "satan" or "demons" is ALL Christian based and Christian derived. It is intertwined with your polorized, dogmatic, fundamentalist sect. Wiccans, for example, have no concept of Satan found within their spirituality. Ironic isnt it? Keep believing those lies...a devil worshipper is just that. You are either for God or against Him. There are no fence sitters. Those are God's words. but you keep obsessing... |
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Oh please woman, you scare me
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I used to love "Devil Dogs" when I was a kid. Why am I NOT surprized???? Hey, they destroy waistlines, not souls. LOL... ok...yu got me there...  So how come you are not watching the DNC convention you go little libber you?  
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My son is occupying the HDTV with Playstation Harry Potter. I have my priorities straight.
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So by your logic since I’m also a non-believer in Christianity and you are a Christian I can now hold you directly responsible for ALL those that were murdered as Witches during "the burning times?" Gotcha... So should we hold you accountable for all the deceptions played on human life by devil worshippers? Be wary of those who come to destroy the soul. Its time for a little wake up call here for Quickstop. The concept of a "devil" or "satan" or "demons" is ALL Christian based and Christian derived. It is intertwined with your polorized, dogmatic, fundamentalist sect. Wiccans, for example, have no concept of Satan found within their spirituality. Ironic isnt it? Keep believing those lies...a devil worshipper is just that. You are either for God or against Him. There are no fence sitters. Those are God's words. but you keep obsessing... There are always those who will tell you that, but both sides of any conflict will call the other side "EVIL" and they will seek to destroy each other. And yet they claim to love thy enemies. Or they say that God commands this. Yet the don't. Worship no God or devil, for they are all false ideals and you will be on the middle path. Just love one another if you can. JB |
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So by your logic since I’m also a non-believer in Christianity and you are a Christian I can now hold you directly responsible for ALL those that were murdered as Witches during "the burning times?" Gotcha... Thats pretty funny because Wicca didnt exist during "the burning times" So your logic is wrong again. witches preceeded any wicca monkey - Then what does one got to do with the other?
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Oh no, did I say something I shouldnt have? Is Deb mad again? Mirror does that to all the girls, deb. Or so Im told. He fixates on a new one weekly. Yeah I chat with a lot of women on here. Thats what JSH/Mingle is for isnt it? 
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Yeah I was just teasin you mirror. Givin ya some of your own medicine.
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well what do you know.....no originated with Christians but with Jews....which were who......oh yea God's chosen people........again you know not what you speak.... The Early Jewish Apocryphal Writings Rabbinic Literature gives two accounts for the origin of Satan. The first is that Satan was created on the sixth day at the same time as Eve. This ties in with the tradition that Satan played some part in the fall of man. The second and more prevalent tradition is that Satan is one of the fallen angels. Satan is identified with Sammael and his deeds. In T.B. Baba Bathra (16a), Satan is identified with the Yetzer ha Ra, which is the 'evil impulse' in man. The Talmud distinguishes between the personified Satan outside man, and the Yetzer ha Ra that exists within man. It is this evil impulse within man that allows Satan the opportunity to work his will against man. Rabbinic writings also foreshadow the destruction of Satan. T.B. Succah (52a) talks of the destruction of the evil angel, while the Yalkut Jesaj (359) implies that Satan will be overthrown at a future time by the Messiah, referring to Psalm 36:9. The general belief is that there are a class of satans with a chief Satan. For example, in 1 Enoch, there are 5 Satans. The first and second are said to have been responsible for leading astray the angels and for bringing them down to earth, where they sinned with the daughters of men (69:4), while the third brought about the fall of Adam and Eve (69:6). The satans are allowed to access heaven in order to accuse men, but they are not confined to heaven. |
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well what do you know.....no originated with Christians but with Jews....which were who......oh yea God's chosen people........again you know not what you speak.... The Early Jewish Apocryphal Writings Rabbinic Literature gives two accounts for the origin of Satan. The first is that Satan was created on the sixth day at the same time as Eve. This ties in with the tradition that Satan played some part in the fall of man. The second and more prevalent tradition is that Satan is one of the fallen angels. Satan is identified with Sammael and his deeds. In T.B. Baba Bathra (16a), Satan is identified with the Yetzer ha Ra, which is the 'evil impulse' in man. The Talmud distinguishes between the personified Satan outside man, and the Yetzer ha Ra that exists within man. It is this evil impulse within man that allows Satan the opportunity to work his will against man. Rabbinic writings also foreshadow the destruction of Satan. T.B. Succah (52a) talks of the destruction of the evil angel, while the Yalkut Jesaj (359) implies that Satan will be overthrown at a future time by the Messiah, referring to Psalm 36:9. The general belief is that there are a class of satans with a chief Satan. For example, in 1 Enoch, there are 5 Satans. The first and second are said to have been responsible for leading astray the angels and for bringing them down to earth, where they sinned with the daughters of men (69:4), while the third brought about the fall of Adam and Eve (69:6). The satans are allowed to access heaven in order to accuse men, but they are not confined to heaven. Very interesting Deb
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