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| Topic: This may Get A Tad Heated | |
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"Who knows what it will take for each person to make the decision to fully surrender to God Tribo. It's all about individual choices. Everyone's life experiences are different & so results vary...but we are the only ones in the way of God's move. That's the truth Tribo."\ I’m not exactly sure who said this but why would you NEED to surrender to anything and especially an organized religion? Why is submission a required tenant of this belief system? That to me is nonsensical and smacks of some kind of enslavement or thought control pattern. The OP has a right to know that not all religions or assents into spirituality require that you "give in" to something. That's horrible and unnecessary. You will find the answer to this question in the bible - if you want to know why people who believe it "surrender" anything to it. |
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"Who knows what it will take for each person to make the decision to fully surrender to God Tribo. It's all about individual choices. Everyone's life experiences are different & so results vary...but we are the only ones in the way of God's move. That's the truth Tribo."\ I’m not exactly sure who said this but why would you NEED to surrender to anything and especially an organized religion? Why is submission a required tenant of this belief system? That to me is nonsensical and smacks of some kind of enslavement or thought control pattern. The OP has a right to know that not all religions or assents into spirituality require that you "give in" to something. That's horrible and unnecessary. You will find the answer to this question in the bible - if you want to know why people who believe it "surrender" anything to it. Didn't surrender to a religion that would just be wrong.....I surrender and give all to Jesus Christ, This is why he died for us.......And trust me I am no slave to anyone......I gladly give it to God......It sure makes life better for me...and if not your cup of tea....well ok.....but please don't think that just because not yours....that you have the right to refute what is right for me. |
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voileazur ( Is it ok that I cut & paste your name? Wouldn't want to be accused of something as petty as namecalling for a spelling error) You quote things shared by Christians out of context. As if we are pointing fingers or something. Your battle is not with us...it's what God's word says & therefore we know is truth from results. You & others here are so obsessed with pointing fingers & growling about what you don't like about what God says in the Bible, you have become ferocious in your accusations & lies about what we are saying (be them malicious or not, they are perseptions in your own mind only.) This! To the point of not acknowledging His love & mercies & all His goodnesses to humanity. You completely throw out all the wisdom & knowledge & secret wonderful wisdom of the ages as followed by sign & wonder & miracles...for what? I say it's time for the unbelieving to grow up & get a spine! Stop whining about your lack & maybe what you need & desire will show up. You are the ones dealing in bad faith (no faith that is.) I think you need to check your own attitudes before you go around pointing fingers. Maybe you don't like it that I have resorted to poking fun about things said but too bad. Absent civil discussion that can agree to disagree the only thing left is to laugh & joke about it all. To find even that an offense just goes to show who lacks a sense of humor. Point fingers all you want. We always come in good faith...not with lies & deceptions to trap men in their gloom & doom. You & some of the others here don't even reveal what you DO believe because you are too buzy putting down God's word. To your shame only... Don't blame your guilt on a good God. I call it for what it is...lies. Most know that lies do not bring comfort & at the end of the day it doesn't make a person 'win' anything either. Peace... for the soul. (Or maybe because you can't see it you don't believe you have a soul either??? Who know right? You don't say. why not? what do YOU have to hide? How about your pals? What are THEY hiding?) Wisdom & knowledge and many other things the inner man needs. More than intellectualizing & growling...what do YOU offer ??? I know! I know! All you do is enter your hit & run posts never to be heard of again. I guess you just wanna be heard. I saw my pseudo at the top of your post and figured that it was addressed to me! How wrong was I!!! Nothing in your address was intended as a communicate (dialogue). You are a soliloquist 'Quikstepper'!!! A self contained and self talking questions and answers 'machine' to oneself. This is a public forum, meant for dialogues and exchanges between people coming to the forum in good faith. Soliloquists should abstain from distubing the peace. If you wish to engage in the dialogue at this point, ... and address my post, eventhough it was addressed to Eljay (no problem, it is a free and open forum), ... please answer the question I posed to Eljay, and be done with your soliloquies. Stop with the pomp! Don't think you're part of the problem? There is plenty there to address. For those who harp on wanting their questions answered you certainly don't like answering any yourselves. Do you always hit & run? Answer the questions or move on. It would appear the bananas are still confused and out of control. You were replying, out of turn (which I don't object to), to a post I addressed to Eljay. Nothing in your reply dealt with comments or observations in this post of mine, which you were referencing. Essentially, you used my post as a pretext to make your usual baseless, uninspired and nasty personal attacks. It is against forum rules, and I will not indulge in your folly. YOU addressed a post of mine. In that post, there are comments observations, and questions posed to Eljay. You chose to refer to that post without addressing it. Get back on track and address the post and its question, or YOU RESPECTFULLY MOVE ON!!! |
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 Its an honor to submit to "G-D".
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB |
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"Who knows what it will take for each person to make the decision to fully surrender to God Tribo. It's all about individual choices. Everyone's life experiences are different & so results vary...but we are the only ones in the way of God's move. That's the truth Tribo."\ I’m not exactly sure who said this but why would you NEED to surrender to anything and especially an organized religion? Why is submission a required tenant of this belief system? That to me is nonsensical and smacks of some kind of enslavement or thought control pattern. The OP has a right to know that not all religions or assents into spirituality require that you "give in" to something. That's horrible and unnecessary. You will find the answer to this question in the bible - if you want to know why people who believe it "surrender" anything to it. Didn't surrender to a religion that would just be wrong.....I surrender and give all to Jesus Christ, This is why he died for us.......And trust me I am no slave to anyone......I gladly give it to God......It sure makes life better for me...and if not your cup of tea....well ok.....but please don't think that just because not yours....that you have the right to refute what is right for me. Thats right
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Its an honor to submit to "G-D". 
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB That is just a lame excuse. JB |
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Submitting, surrendering, giving 100%, etc... should only be done for a sure thing. The bible, religion or a manmade god are not sure things at all.
In my opinion examination is needed for who REALLY benefits from religions, then tell me who should surrender to it. |
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belief is a guess. all belief. In and of itself is guesswork. and the believers that promote their beliefs are guessing. It is not about knowledge, and certainly not about universal knowledge. But the Holy Spirit is the knowledge of God given man from God as proof of God. Uniquely, Christianity has that distinction in that the spirit in man is not the Spirit of God and that to know God requires knowing the Spirit of God. That is not inherent according to jesus. It is believed to be an inherent distinction outside of Jesus' teachings. Only the born again christian knows the truth. BINGO!!! For as many that are led by the spirit OF GOD, have the RIGHT to be called the sons of God. That's it folks!!! They win!!! They are BORN AGAINS, and only BORN AGAINS know THE TRUTH!!! Now I know, ... that I don't know. I am not, nor will I ever be a BORNAGAIN! So I know that I'll never know. Hey there!!! Wait a second!!! I now know!!! I NOW KNOW, ... THAT I DON'T KNOW!!! BUT I KNOW THAT!!! Sorry folks, my mistake!!! BORN AGAINS ARE IN THE DARK!!! And they're the only ones in the dark. THEY THINK THEY KNOW!!! Imagine that!!! But they have no clue, '... THEY DON'T KNOW, that, THEY DON'T KNOW!!!...' OH! poor 'BORNAGAINS'! How profoundly sad!!! They seriously think they know!!! Let's be patient, and show them some compassion!!! We must have faith and believe, that even BORNAGAINS can be free, and 'GET IT' one day!!! Faith, brothers and sisters!!! It's all about faith!!! Voile; Give it a rest. If you have something to add to the discussion - fine. This post is below your skill level to contribute to the discussion. Get back on track! There are enough trolls on the site without your having to lower yourself to be one too. Sincerely. lj Eljay, I'm afraid you missed the point of my post. If you had grasped it, you would not have reacted in the indignant and paternalistic manner that you have towards me. Calling out te lies of divisiness which I perceive Eljay!!! ...is what I contribute to the dabate, IMHO. Calling the lie of divisiness everywhere I hear, or see it. If I'm wrong in YOUR opinion, by all means, share your claim. That is part and parcel of the debating process. Tell us in what manner exactly the following extraordinarily exclusive and divisive claims are not delusional at best, and outright lies at worst: '... Uniquely, Christianity has that distinction in that the spirit in man is not the Spirit of God and that to know God requires knowing the Spirit of God...' '... Only the born again christian knows the truth...' '... BINGO!!! For as many that are led by the spirit OF GOD, have the RIGHT to be called the sons of God...' Whatever one's personal beliefs, confusing the fine line between the 'personal' and 'universal' domains will always be spreading lies and mischaracterizations by the carrier. As faith is personal, so are beliefs. They are a 'construct' and 'assent of the mind' to that which 'appears to be true' for the believer, ... PERSONALLY!!! When you take your personal beliefs: personal convictions of what might true for oneself, and impose them as WHAT OUGHT TO BE THE TRUTH FOR ALL, given certain dogmatic pre-conditions, you enter the zone of the delusional. You are no longer 'IN GOOD FAITH' with yourself and others. You use your 'supposedly' SUPERIOR beliefs to separate, divide, and dominate others, consciously, or unconsciously so. Bottom line, when you walk around claiming that YOU of all human beings, 'know the truth', you are simply and obsessively perverting beliefs, and faith. That is my point. We are all in the same boat. All of us, in our own way, with our personal beliefs and faith, are on a journey to SEEK what is true. Seeking, not knowing!!! None of us 'know what is true'. It is a fundamental aspect of being a human being. Of course, when all human beings are seeking what is true, it is very tempting for 'SOME', to make the false claim that THEY KNOW!!! THAT THEY HAVE THE ANSWER, AND ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE!!! It's called 'charlatanism'!!! And it will always be called 'charlatanism': the perpetula deceit of promoting lies as THE TRUTH!!! I have been denouncing comments and messages of divisiveness based on such lies, from my very first posts on these forums, and will keep denouncing them in the future. You may agree, and then again you may not. I, for one, do not walk around pretending to KNOW THE TRUTH, so the opposing point of view is always welcomed. This is what these forums are about: supporting or denouncing comments, statements, and observations which you agree with, or are in discord with, respectfully and intelligently so, as much as possible. What I have posted earlier Eljay, was right on topic. Now see - this is more like it. This is the Voile I prefer to read. This is certainly contributing to the argument in a rational and logical manner. When you do this - you are at your best. The other post was for show - I see too much "performing" in my daily life and prefer not to see it here - well, maybe sometimes... I agree with you. I don't thnik any "christian" can claim to "know the truth", just the path that leads to it. But isn't this what we all claim? Shouldn't you have included Pantheists, Atheists, Paganists in your rant as well? I see as many of them claiming to know what truth is as I do the "born-agains". This post adresses the issues, as opposed to a group. For I can also see within this message that it is not a "group dependent issue" that you present. And in that light - I agree. And to get back on track, as you suggested, I would ask you sincerely, to address the following extraordinarily exclusive statements: '... Uniquely, Christianity has that distinction in that the spirit in man is not the Spirit of God and that to know God requires knowing the Spirit of God...' I would agree with this - however, I would qualify this statement to mean the God of Judeo/Christianity. For it would be a false statement were we to replace God with "Allah", or certainly not the she of Pantheism - for that would render the statement illogical. Suffice it to say that I do believe that there is a spiritual side to all men - I just do not believe that Spirit can be blanketly assumed to be the Holy Spirit of scripture. It is contradictory to the exegesis of the text. '... Only the born again christian knows the truth...' No - that is reading into the statement what isn't there. The bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead the believer to the truth - it doesn't say anything about what the one without the spirit will be led to one way or another. It would be foolish to claim that someone who is not filled with the spirit is not aware of what truth might be. However - through my own experience, I have seen many who are non-believers who are easily decieved. Including those who are "professed" believers. '... BINGO!!! For as many that are led by the spirit OF GOD, have the RIGHT to be called the sons of God...' Doesn't this speak for itself? Here again, the reference is not to God of any faith, that is a fallacy of the shifting middle. It is clearly understood by this statement that the "Son of God" is a son of the God of scripture. It does not assume that one become a son of any other God. And those who are led to God by the spirit of God, and CHOSE God are the sons. Why would someone who has rejected God or the Son, be considered one of the "family" when they have chosen not to be. The text is self explanitory IMO. [quote Do you support those kinds of claims yourself Eljay??? Looking forward to your reply. I explained what I support. However I'm not sure the exegesis I chose was what was intended by your question. You'll have to expound where you think I might have misinterpreted your inquiry. |
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB That is just a lame excuse. JB |
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB That is just a lame excuse. JB |
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Submitting, surrendering, giving 100%, etc... should only be done for a sure thing. The bible, religion or a manmade god are not sure things at all. In my opinion examination is needed for who REALLY benefits from religions, then tell me who should surrender to it. Absolutely. It's impossible to surrender to God unless God requests something from you in-person. Otherwise it's just cult. There's no reason whatsoever that men should believe in the bigotry and hatred in the Bible. The Bible preaches hatred and bigotry toward non-believers. It's clearly a book of hate. The biblical God even tells people that it is their duty to murder heathens and to destroy the entire villages that they come from, including women, children and even their livestock. It's an extremely violent hateful picture of an egotsitical and jealous Godhead. Very very ugly indeed. To surrender to such an egotistical fascist would be no different than surrendering to the wishes of Adolf Hitler. The biblical picture of God is extremely hateful of non-believers. Supposedly Jesus taught against that mindset. But what are the Christians doing right here today in these very thread? They are using the name of Jesus to spread bigotry and hatred toward non-believers. It's an extremely hateful religion. That's all it is, it's just hate proselytized in the name of Jesus.  |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 08/25/08 12:04 PM
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB That is just a lame excuse. JB How dare you accuse me or folks like me of crucifying anyone! That is a bald faced lie. I refuse today and I would refuse back then to let anyone die for my crimes. But you on the other hand, bath in the metaphoric blood of an imaginary man, crucified for you sins so that you can be cleansed enough to face his father in heaven. You crucified him and you continue to do so every time you go to church or take communion and eat his flesh and drink his blood. I don't have any part in that kind of blood sacrifice ritualistic crap. Its a blood cult. You have your nerve accusing me of crucifying your imaginary Christ. You have really crossed the line when you make statements like that. You believe in the lie and forgery of the plagiarized New Testament and you go around accusing me of crucifying your imaginary savior? You need a reality check big time.  JB |
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"Who knows what it will take for each person to make the decision to fully surrender to God Tribo. It's all about individual choices. Everyone's life experiences are different & so results vary...but we are the only ones in the way of God's move. That's the truth Tribo."\ I’m not exactly sure who said this but why would you NEED to surrender to anything and especially an organized religion? Why is submission a required tenant of this belief system? That to me is nonsensical and smacks of some kind of enslavement or thought control pattern. The OP has a right to know that not all religions or assents into spirituality require that you "give in" to something. That's horrible and unnecessary. Well put, and thanks for setting me up for these two points: 1) “responsible” is defined as "Involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority." So "to fully surrender to god" is nothing short of complete irresponsibility. 2) “slavery” is defined as "The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence."* So a religion that is founded on belief in an omnipotent God has slavery at it's very core. This quote really sums it up beautifully to me: "One who rejoices in his slavery, is a slave indeed." [Donning asbestos suit.] (*definitions are quoted from the American Heritage College Dictionary, Fourth Edition.) Yes well some slavery is better than others. For instance...freedom can be a form of slavery when it lacks accountability, things like drug abuse, alchoholism, porn etc...all produced from people's freedom of choice but not neccessarily a good thing. The only thing wrong about slavery are its abuses but we are ALL slaves to something. To think otherwise is fooling oneself. Self discipline is better than force but for those who LACK in self discipline there are intervening consequences. So if one has to surrender to anything it might as well be something for their good. Just sayin' That reply goes in a few different directions, so I’ll break it up… Yes well some slavery is better than others. Yes well some pedophiles are better than others too. But that doesn’t make them good. My POV says if I desire something do I work to attain it or steal it? My ethic says I'll work to get my needs met. Right? Cavemen days are over & we have courtesy & principles. Where did they come from but the Bible. It's not always the easy road that's the best one so when people say things like Do your own thing or who's gonna know...be sure you will be found out. Things we do have a way of catching up to us. Like the guy who thinks there's no harm in having a drink every night only to find that he wakes to to an addiction. We think we're in control but are we really? Our society today is ripe with all the consequences of bad decisions made by people. That's my point. Some things we think are choices only end up in slavery. For instance...freedom can be a form of slavery when it lacks accountability, things like drug abuse, alchoholism, porn etc...all produced from people's freedom of choice but not neccessarily a good thing. The only thing wrong about slavery are its abuses Saying “The only thing wrong about slavery are its abuses” is like saying “the only thing wrong with murder is that people die from it.” The thing that is wrong with slavery is that it denies self-determined choice. What you’re calling “abuses” do NOT come from the freedom of self-determined choice, but from addiction, which is (by definition) slavery. No...it comes from having priciples as taught by God & shed abroad into society. WE evolve...we can also see the results of past societies to know what works & what doesn't. Since that is true then we must say that America (based on biblical laws) was a success. That's proof enough for me. All you have to do is look at most other countries to know we have the best. It was better when people were more principled & self controlled but today they alone have to face their own consequences. Right? I'd rather be a slave to what's right & just than some man made rules that I clearly see don't work. So if one has to surrender to anything it might as well be something for their good. Let me paraphrase what you said there so you can understand my answer: “If one must choose something that will make his choices for him, he might as well choose something that would choose the same things that he would choose.” So I would answer this way: If you have the choice in the first place, then why give it away at all??? Well because that's the only way man can have true peace...by surrendering control of their inner man to God. Don't put down what has not been experienced yet.  I don't see it as being negative but more as an exciting adventure. Doesn't anyone have a flair for adventure anymore? Those who talk about dogma the most are the ones who are most comfrotable with it. See? but we are ALL slaves to something. Of course that statement cannot be either proven or disproven. So it is only a belief - which leads right back to the original issue I was trying to address in my first post. If you believe in an omnipotent god, then you cannot believe that absolute freedom is possible. The two are, by definition, mutually exclusive. Now since you (supposedly) have the ability to choose what you believe or don’t believe, then why would you choose to believe that you can never be totally free? Well actually...yes...being a slave doesn't neccessarily mean servitude. it could be addictions etc. As I stated above. Since we have the propensity to trip over ourselves when we are not looking... hmmm... Your replies are almost exclusively based on personal beliefs that are put forward as being absolute truths. So I’m just going to point out that we do not have agreement on the most fundamental premises and leave it at that. Peace. |
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every response under the sun, except that which i asked from those who i asked!
 you here will make any excuse, say anything, repeat whatever - but you avoid any questions i put to those who say - they have daily conversations with god and his spirit. hmmm? you put it off to not tempting the lord, it's mans fault. blah,blah,blah, ad naseum,  yet not one of gods chosen people will even try to ask god to give the spirit the anser to give to me?? pretty pathetic guy's! 
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Edited by
voileazur
on
Mon 08/25/08 12:41 PM
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belief is a guess. all belief. In and of itself is guesswork. and the believers that promote their beliefs are guessing. It is not about knowledge, and certainly not about universal knowledge. But the Holy Spirit is the knowledge of God given man from God as proof of God. Uniquely, Christianity has that distinction in that the spirit in man is not the Spirit of God and that to know God requires knowing the Spirit of God. That is not inherent according to jesus. It is believed to be an inherent distinction outside of Jesus' teachings. Only the born again christian knows the truth. BINGO!!! For as many that are led by the spirit OF GOD, have the RIGHT to be called the sons of God. That's it folks!!! They win!!! They are BORN AGAINS, and only BORN AGAINS know THE TRUTH!!! Now I know, ... that I don't know. I am not, nor will I ever be a BORNAGAIN! So I know that I'll never know. Hey there!!! Wait a second!!! I now know!!! I NOW KNOW, ... THAT I DON'T KNOW!!! BUT I KNOW THAT!!! Sorry folks, my mistake!!! BORN AGAINS ARE IN THE DARK!!! And they're the only ones in the dark. THEY THINK THEY KNOW!!! Imagine that!!! But they have no clue, '... THEY DON'T KNOW, that, THEY DON'T KNOW!!!...' OH! poor 'BORNAGAINS'! How profoundly sad!!! They seriously think they know!!! Let's be patient, and show them some compassion!!! We must have faith and believe, that even BORNAGAINS can be free, and 'GET IT' one day!!! Faith, brothers and sisters!!! It's all about faith!!! Voile; Give it a rest. If you have something to add to the discussion - fine. This post is below your skill level to contribute to the discussion. Get back on track! There are enough trolls on the site without your having to lower yourself to be one too. Sincerely. lj Eljay, I'm afraid you missed the point of my post. If you had grasped it, you would not have reacted in the indignant and paternalistic manner that you have towards me. Calling out te lies of divisiness which I perceive Eljay!!! ...is what I contribute to the dabate, IMHO. Calling the lie of divisiness everywhere I hear, or see it. If I'm wrong in YOUR opinion, by all means, share your claim. That is part and parcel of the debating process. Tell us in what manner exactly the following extraordinarily exclusive and divisive claims are not delusional at best, and outright lies at worst: '... Uniquely, Christianity has that distinction in that the spirit in man is not the Spirit of God and that to know God requires knowing the Spirit of God...' '... Only the born again christian knows the truth...' '... BINGO!!! For as many that are led by the spirit OF GOD, have the RIGHT to be called the sons of God...' Whatever one's personal beliefs, confusing the fine line between the 'personal' and 'universal' domains will always be spreading lies and mischaracterizations by the carrier. As faith is personal, so are beliefs. They are a 'construct' and 'assent of the mind' to that which 'appears to be true' for the believer, ... PERSONALLY!!! When you take your personal beliefs: personal convictions of what might true for oneself, and impose them as WHAT OUGHT TO BE THE TRUTH FOR ALL, given certain dogmatic pre-conditions, you enter the zone of the delusional. You are no longer 'IN GOOD FAITH' with yourself and others. You use your 'supposedly' SUPERIOR beliefs to separate, divide, and dominate others, consciously, or unconsciously so. Bottom line, when you walk around claiming that YOU of all human beings, 'know the truth', you are simply and obsessively perverting beliefs, and faith. That is my point. We are all in the same boat. All of us, in our own way, with our personal beliefs and faith, are on a journey to SEEK what is true. Seeking, not knowing!!! None of us 'know what is true'. It is a fundamental aspect of being a human being. Of course, when all human beings are seeking what is true, it is very tempting for 'SOME', to make the false claim that THEY KNOW!!! THAT THEY HAVE THE ANSWER, AND ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE!!! It's called 'charlatanism'!!! And it will always be called 'charlatanism': the perpetula deceit of promoting lies as THE TRUTH!!! I have been denouncing comments and messages of divisiveness based on such lies, from my very first posts on these forums, and will keep denouncing them in the future. You may agree, and then again you may not. I, for one, do not walk around pretending to KNOW THE TRUTH, so the opposing point of view is always welcomed. This is what these forums are about: supporting or denouncing comments, statements, and observations which you agree with, or are in discord with, respectfully and intelligently so, as much as possible. What I have posted earlier Eljay, was right on topic. Now see - this is more like it. This is the Voile I prefer to read. This is certainly contributing to the argument in a rational and logical manner. When you do this - you are at your best. The other post was for show - I see too much "performing" in my daily life and prefer not to see it here - well, maybe sometimes... I agree with you. I don't thnik any "christian" can claim to "know the truth",'just the path that leads to it. But isn't this what we all claim? Shouldn't you have included Pantheists, Atheists, Paganists in your rant as well? I see as many of them claiming to know what truth is as I do the "born-agains". This post adresses the issues, as opposed to a group. For I can also see within this message that it is not a "group dependent issue" that you present. And in that light - I agree. And to get back on track, as you suggested, I would ask you sincerely, to address the following extraordinarily exclusive statements: '... Uniquely, Christianity has that distinction in that the spirit in man is not the Spirit of God and that to know God requires knowing the Spirit of God...' I would agree with this - however, I would qualify this statement to mean the God of Judeo/Christianity. For it would be a false statement were we to replace God with "Allah", or certainly not the she of Pantheism - for that would render the statement illogical. Suffice it to say that I do believe that there is a spiritual side to all men - I just do not believe that Spirit can be blanketly assumed to be the Holy Spirit of scripture. It is contradictory to the exegesis of the text. '... Only the born again christian knows the truth...' No - that is reading into the statement what isn't there. The bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead the believer to the truth - it doesn't say anything about what the one without the spirit will be led to one way or another. It would be foolish to claim that someone who is not filled with the spirit is not aware of what truth might be. However - through my own experience, I have seen many who are non-believers who are easily decieved. Including those who are "professed" believers. '... BINGO!!! For as many that are led by the spirit OF GOD, have the RIGHT to be called the sons of God...' Doesn't this speak for itself? Here again, the reference is not to God of any faith, that is a fallacy of the shifting middle. It is clearly understood by this statement that the "Son of God" is a son of the God of scripture. It does not assume that one become a son of any other God. And those who are led to God by the spirit of God, and CHOSE God are the sons. Why would someone who has rejected God or the Son, be considered one of the "family" when they have chosen not to be. The text is self explanitory IMO. [quote Do you support those kinds of claims yourself Eljay??? Looking forward to your reply. I explained what I support. However I'm not sure the exegesis I chose was what was intended by your question. You'll have to expound where you think I might have misinterpreted your inquiry. Eljay, With all due respect, I am not waking-up in the morning with a dictate to post according to your preferences. A bit condescending on your part, wouldn't you say? The original post was written with the only language and form appropriate, to address a profoundly divisive comment: '... Only the born again christian knows the truth...' ... was the profoundly and extraordinarily misguided and divisive statement. You said yourself : '... I agree with you. I don't thnik any "christian" can claim to "know the truth",' I would go further than just 'any christian', and extend this claim to all human beings. Now, is your agreement comment a coded message, or does it say what it says? If so, denounce the comment altogether, and let's move on from there. You go on to say : '... just the path (not THE TRUTH itself) that leads to it (truth). But isn't this what we all claim? Of course I would have had no problem if that were how the objectional statement had been written, or implied. But that was not the case, and you appear to agree, with one of your statement, and disagree with the rest of your statement. Can't have it both ways Eljay. Avoid painting yourself in a corner here. How can you ever defend that the statement ... '... Only the born again christian knows the truth...' ... can ever be twisted to mean '... one's chosen PATH towards truth!!!...' I don't care how profoundly one perfects one's path, the SEEKING path towards the truth, never transforms into THE TRUTH in this lifetime. That's what faith is all about!!! To keep seeking in good faith, with each our own beliefs, and respected paths. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 08/25/08 12:40 PM
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB That is just a lame excuse. JB Its a simple request. Who am I? I am a truth seeker. If someone tells me that they speak to the Holy Spirit or God directly and that they know truth because truth has been revealed to them, then I expect them to at least offer a tiny smidgen of evidence to support that grand claim. We have heard conflicting things about what the Bible has to say about God or the Holy spirit speaking to people, and we only ask that those who claim to speak to the Holy Spirit because they have been "born again" offer a small token of evidence to us poor skeptics. Or else they should not continue to make such claims. JB I believe I have a better chance getting the information from my friend who really does speak to spirits than from any one of these people. I am going to see her tonight if she is home. I will show her a picture of Tribo and let her do a reading. We will see what she comes up with. Seriously, it may be interesting. P.S. I did not crucify Jesus. I expect an apology for that accusation. |
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Edited by
SharpShooter10
on
Mon 08/25/08 12:50 PM
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB That is just a lame excuse. JB How dare you accuse me or folks like me of crucifying anyone! That is a bald faced lie. I refuse today and I would refuse back then to let anyone die for my crimes. But you on the other hand, bath in the metaphoric blood of an imaginary man, crucified for you sins so that you can be cleansed enough to face his father in heaven. You crucified him and you continue to do so every time you go to church or take communion and eat his flesh and drink his blood. I don't have any part in that kind of blood sacrifice ritualistic crap. Its a blood cult. You have your nerve accusing me of crucifying your imaginary Christ. You have really crossed the line when you make statements like that. You believe in the lie and forgery of the plagiarized New Testament and you go around accusing me of crucifying your imaginary savior? You need a reality check big time. JB |
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Edited by
SharpShooter10
on
Mon 08/25/08 12:58 PM
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Between this thread and the one that Tribo has started, I don't see any spokes persons for the holy spirit coming forward to answer his simple question. JB That is just a lame excuse. JB Its a simple request. Who am I? I am a truth seeker. If someone tells me that they speak to the Holy Spirit or God directly and that they know truth because truth has been revealed to them, then I expect them to at least offer a tiny smidgen of evidence to support that grand claim. We have heard conflicting things about what the Bible has to say about God or the Holy spirit speaking to people, and we only ask that those who claim to speak to the Holy Spirit because they have been "born again" offer a small token of evidence to us poor skeptics. Or else they should not continue to make such claims. JB I believe I have a better chance getting the information from my friend who really does speak to spirits than from any one of these people. I am going to see her tonight if she is home. I will show her a picture of Tribo and let her do a reading. We will see what she comes up with. Seriously, it may be interesting. P.S. I did not crucify Jesus. I expect an apology for that accusation. |
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