Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: NOAH'S ARK - WTF??
Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Tue 08/26/08 11:19 AM
Okay so your assertion then is that the bible is wrong in its account of the flood being worldwide? I would agree with that. It’s possible that to these people, it was in fact their entire world so they might have expressed it that way in the bible. Mistakes like that are forgivable. The bible was written by men so has the propensity to be erroneous. I guess that’s a given. It also seems that if god has created everything like the Creationists seem to buy into; couldn’t he have just gotten rid of the earth and started over? Why bother with floods and dragging it out in such a manor. So if we accept your theory which seems plausible that this was only one of many floods in a centralized local, then that sort of dispels all the crazy mysticism and god really had nothing to do with it. It was a natural disaster. The bible doesn't say the flood was worldwide Genesis 7:18-20 "The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than 20 feet." So - could you explain how this could happen and not be world wide? It does not say "under heaven at Long 42 and Lat 12" it says "the entire heavens"

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 08/26/08 11:26 AM Edited by Krimsa on Tue 08/26/08 11:51 AM
Eljay I had always surmised that the bible's position was that indeed the flood was worldwide. Of course I disagree with this assertion and find it to be highly unlikely but you knew that. I have also presented supportive evidence to bolster my case. I was addressing sharp because he had told me he felt that the flood that took place was in a centralized locale. I was asking for him to clarify which he did. Or perhaps you are adressing sharp in this post? You already know my position.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Tue 08/26/08 11:29 AM
Okay so your assertion then is that the bible is wrong in its account of the flood being worldwide? I would agree with that. It’s possible that to these people, it was in fact their entire world so they might have expressed it that way in the bible. Mistakes like that are forgivable. The bible was written by men so has the propensity to be erroneous. I guess that’s a given. It also seems that if god has created everything like the Creationists seem to buy into; couldn’t he have just gotten rid of the earth and started over? Why bother with floods and dragging it out in such a manor. So if we accept your theory which seems plausible that this was only one of many floods in a centralized local, then that sort of dispels all the crazy mysticism and god really had nothing to do with it. It was a natural disaster. The bible doesn't say the flood was worldwide Genesis 7:18-20 "The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than 20 feet." So - could you explain how this could happen and not be world wide? It does not say "under heaven at Long 42 and Lat 12" it says "the entire heavens" <<< The Ever ~ Faithful >>> > ^^^ steadfast, respectful, unshakable ^^^ <<< Articulate & Ever so Eloquent ElJay >>> }}} !!! Love and Light to You ~ My Brother !!!

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 08/26/08 12:06 PM
Okay so your assertion then is that the bible is wrong in its account of the flood being worldwide? I would agree with that. It’s possible that to these people, it was in fact their entire world so they might have expressed it that way in the bible. Mistakes like that are forgivable. The bible was written by men so has the propensity to be erroneous. I guess that’s a given. It also seems that if god has created everything like the Creationists seem to buy into; couldn’t he have just gotten rid of the earth and started over? Why bother with floods and dragging it out in such a manor. So if we accept your theory which seems plausible that this was only one of many floods in a centralized local, then that sort of dispels all the crazy mysticism and god really had nothing to do with it. It was a natural disaster. The bible doesn't say the flood was worldwide Genesis 7:18-20 "The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than 20 feet." So - could you explain how this could happen and not be world wide? It does not say "under heaven at Long 42 and Lat 12" it says "the entire heavens" it's not specific either way thus we must draw our own conclusions, it's just the way it is sometimes wonder how the fishing was

Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Tue 08/26/08 12:09 PM
Eljay I had always surmised that the bible's position was that indeed the flood was worldwide. Of course I disagree with this assertion and find it to be highly unlikely but you knew that. I have also presented supportive evidence to bolster my case. I was addressing sharp because he had told me he felt that the flood that took place was in a centralized locale. I was asking for him to clarify which he did. Or perhaps you are adressing sharp in this post? You already know my position. I was adressing Sharp. It's one thing to feel that the biblical account of the flood is a myth. Nothing incorrect about that. But it is incorrect to think the biblical account was not a world wide flood. I follow your reasoning for not accepting the flood - and though I do not agree with it, it is certainly a reasonable argument.

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 08/26/08 12:10 PM Edited by SharpShooter10 on Tue 08/26/08 12:13 PM
It is truly amazing how so many can read the same words and get so many different points of veiw on things bet we can all agree on that

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 08/26/08 12:19 PM
Well I would agree with Eljay here (I guess it just snowed in hell today). I felt that the passage he just quoted left NOTHING to the imagination. At least from the perspective addressed there, they felt that the flood was worldwide. That leaves you with the option of taking the position that the bible is wrong and actually it was only a centralized location (a plausible scenario).

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Tue 08/26/08 12:26 PM Edited by Dragoness on Tue 08/26/08 12:26 PM
Well and if you look at the intent behind the story, it is functional. If you piss off the big guy look at what he can do. The story is cute for children to a certain degree but it is not really a good story unless you want your children to be brainwashed into believing that god will annihilate those that he loves if they are bad.

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 08/26/08 12:29 PM
Well I would agree with Eljay here (I guess it just snowed in hell today). I felt that the passage he just quoted left NOTHING to the imagination. At least from the perspective addressed there, they felt that the flood was worldwide. That leaves you with the option of taking the position that the bible is wrong and actually it was only a centralized location (a plausible scenario). I'm sure "they" did feel that it was as well, wow, we agreed on something again, it can be done,

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 08/26/08 12:35 PM
Well that’s what I said to you earlier. That the writers of this particular story saw this rain pouring down for 40 days and 40 nights at the rate of 6 inches a minute (yes alright) and they decided that the entire planet must be flooding. I don’t think people in biblical times had a concept of the size of the planet like we do now. That might have been the extent of their world as they understood it. So okay. I guess. If you take it literally from the stand point that god is infallible then it was a flood throughout the globe. I don’t think so but some people do. We know for a fact that floods have occurred at various points in history and at locations world wide.

Eljay Joined Tue 05/08/07 Posts: 2426	Tue 08/26/08 12:43 PM
Okay so your assertion then is that the bible is wrong in its account of the flood being worldwide? I would agree with that. It’s possible that to these people, it was in fact their entire world so they might have expressed it that way in the bible. Mistakes like that are forgivable. The bible was written by men so has the propensity to be erroneous. I guess that’s a given. It also seems that if god has created everything like the Creationists seem to buy into; couldn’t he have just gotten rid of the earth and started over? Why bother with floods and dragging it out in such a manor. So if we accept your theory which seems plausible that this was only one of many floods in a centralized local, then that sort of dispels all the crazy mysticism and god really had nothing to do with it. It was a natural disaster. The bible doesn't say the flood was worldwide Genesis 7:18-20 "The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than 20 feet." So - could you explain how this could happen and not be world wide? It does not say "under heaven at Long 42 and Lat 12" it says "the entire heavens" it's not specific either way thus we must draw our own conclusions, it's just the way it is sometimes wonder how the fishing was I would assume the fishing was fabulous - else how else did Noah eat? While I will agree that "worldwide" won't be found in a concordance - so your statement isn't false - but it's implications are incorrect. If "nder all the heavens isn't world wide - what is it?

tribo Joined Mon 05/12/08 Posts: 5577	Tue 08/26/08 01:16 PM Edited by tribo on Tue 08/26/08 01:21 PM
Okay so your assertion then is that the bible is wrong in its account of the flood being worldwide? I would agree with that. It’s possible that to these people, it was in fact their entire world so they might have expressed it that way in the bible. Mistakes like that are forgivable. The bible was written by men so has the propensity to be erroneous. I guess that’s a given. It also seems that if god has created everything like the Creationists seem to buy into; couldn’t he have just gotten rid of the earth and started over? Why bother with floods and dragging it out in such a manor. So if we accept your theory which seems plausible that this was only one of many floods in a centralized local, then that sort of dispels all the crazy mysticism and god really had nothing to do with it. It was a natural disaster. The bible doesn't say the flood was worldwide Genesis 7:18-20 "The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than 20 feet." So - could you explain how this could happen and not be world wide? It does not say "under heaven at Long 42 and Lat 12" it says "the entire heavens" it's not specific either way thus we must draw our own conclusions, it's just the way it is sometimes wonder how the fishing was I would assume the fishing was fabulous - else how else did Noah eat? While I will agree that "worldwide" won't be found in a concordance - so your statement isn't false - but it's implications are incorrect. If "under all the heavens isn't world wide - what is it? well there's many heavens eljay which one do you think? maybe it flooded in another of the heavens and just a small portion down on earth.like mainly the area around where the garden of eden and other close areas - how far could one see back then any farther than now? how was one to know how much had flooded? Can you look upon some of the large lakes and see land on the other side? even from sears tower? NOT!! no one will ever know for sure. but i'll defend your right to be wrong forever. wrongs not a bad thing - it's just not right -

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Tue 08/26/08 01:37 PM
Genesis 7:17 17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. Genesis 7:18 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water, Genesis 7:19 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. So what part of that is left to doubt that it was global.....on the earth and entire heavens I would say would be a global flood..... hmmmmmm and I missing something here.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 08/26/08 01:44 PM
I would agree that sounds global to me also. I’m a big fan of taking things at face value. However, how do we know necessarily what the perception of "the world" was exactly to these people at the time?

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 08/26/08 02:03 PM
Well that’s what I said to you earlier. That the writers of this particular story saw this rain pouring down for 40 days and 40 nights at the rate of 6 inches a minute (yes alright) and they decided that the entire planet must be flooding. I don’t think people in biblical times had a concept of the size of the planet like we do now. That might have been the extent of their world as they understood it. So okay. I guess. If you take it literally from the stand point that god is infallible then it was a flood throughout the globe. I don’t think so but some people do. We know for a fact that floods have occurred at various points in history and at locations world wide. see, we're not too divided on some things,

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 08/26/08 02:05 PM
Okay so your assertion then is that the bible is wrong in its account of the flood being worldwide? I would agree with that. It’s possible that to these people, it was in fact their entire world so they might have expressed it that way in the bible. Mistakes like that are forgivable. The bible was written by men so has the propensity to be erroneous. I guess that’s a given. It also seems that if god has created everything like the Creationists seem to buy into; couldn’t he have just gotten rid of the earth and started over? Why bother with floods and dragging it out in such a manor. So if we accept your theory which seems plausible that this was only one of many floods in a centralized local, then that sort of dispels all the crazy mysticism and god really had nothing to do with it. It was a natural disaster. The bible doesn't say the flood was worldwide Genesis 7:18-20 "The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than 20 feet." So - could you explain how this could happen and not be world wide? It does not say "under heaven at Long 42 and Lat 12" it says "the entire heavens" it's not specific either way thus we must draw our own conclusions, it's just the way it is sometimes wonder how the fishing was I would assume the fishing was fabulous - else how else did Noah eat? While I will agree that "worldwide" won't be found in a concordance - so your statement isn't false - but it's implications are incorrect. If "nder all the heavens isn't world wide - what is it? cool, I don't know it all, I'm just trying to like everyone else

SharpShooter10 Joined Tue 11/20/07 Posts: 11271	Tue 08/26/08 02:13 PM
one thing I can say, at least everyone (I think) in here has something they believe in . Some dont believe in anything

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Tue 08/26/08 02:16 PM Edited by feralcatlady on Tue 08/26/08 02:19 PM
I would agree that sounds global to me also. I’m a big fan of taking things at face value. However, how do we know necessarily what the perception of "the world" was exactly to these people at the time? well thats true....but I would say earth and heaven pretty much covers......let me see something Krimsa...brb How are you by the way......did you fall out of your chair with what I wrote in other thread. I am sorry for everything......I hope this is a truce... Here Krimsa and everyone I think this answers all....even the egypt stuff 17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. , [c] 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark. 24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Tue 08/26/08 02:17 PM
Yeha that was nice of you Deb.

feralcatlady Joined Mon 10/08/07 Posts: 35491	Tue 08/26/08 02:21 PM
Yeha that was nice of you Deb. I am sorry for all the crap.....also added to my post so please read and then give me feedback.