Also I did check out the whole thread....and people are entitled to their opinions....and I just see friends sticking up for theirs......JB did nothing wrong as neither did CS.....they just had their opinions......

They actually both could of backed up their thoughts with a lot more evidence...but hey omo.

Agreed on both counts.

Clearly Creative is at odds with JB, but JB is not at odds with Creative.

Something is terribly amiss here. And it seems to be spreading to include other people into the mix.

Such a shame. I sincerely hope that whatever the problem is it can be resolved and doesn't continue to fester unchecked.

I tried to email Creative a while back concerning this issue but was unable to get through due to email restrictions. I hate to see people at odds with each other, especially when it appears to be dragging innocent bystanders into the mix.

This kind of personal friction is so unproductive.

I feel like I'm being dragged into it now too. Unwillingly I assure you. I have no animosity toward anyone on these forums. This is all just some kind of misunderstanding. JB isn't out to degrade or hurt anyone. She's not that kind of person.

Jeannie..once again.....in what you just wrote to Creative Soul above..is an example of how you MISINTERPRET what others say..and therefore, ASSUME about what others ACTUALLY MEAN!!.

Jeannie...NO WHERE did Creative Soul EVER state that he was at odds with you.

In fact, I have seen you misinterpreting Creative Soul's statements a lot....but did not want to say anything .

And you have done this with others too....although I know you do not do this intentionally, Jeannie.


But the reason I think this happens is..you PROCESS things differently , when you hear them....
heck... a lot of people do this..and hence the result is serious MISCOMMUNICATION.

And probably the main reason for so many divorces, too!!!

Morningsong,
He certainly did imply it. He was making a comparison. Just because he tends to be vague does not mean I misinterpret what he is saying, and if I do misinterpret what he is saying, it is because he is being vague, suggestive and ambiguous.

Getting him to speak clearly and say what he means is almost impossible.

He would not have mentioned anything about anyone being at odds with me if he was not. There was no other reason for him to make that statement. How else would you expect me to interpret it?

Now I wish everyone would get back on the topic of this thread. I am not at odds with anyone. If Creative is at odds with me, I can do nothing about that. If he is not, then he should not have made that remark which implied that personal feelings are involved with this discussion rather than honest debate and honest opinions.

JB

Here is the original post: This is what the thread is about. It is not about personalities. If you have an opinion feel free to voice it and include your reasons or evidence.


1.Either life arises from consciousness or

2.consciousness arises from life.

If consciousness arises from life, then perhaps life (and consciousness) is just a freak accident. This creates more questions than answers.

Of course the third option (answered by religion) is that a separate creator, the "All Mighty God" created everything.

But if this is the case, then where did this creator come from?
Therefore this solution also creates more questions than answers and just goes in a circle.

These are the three basic choices on the table you can explore for answers.

My evidence and personal experience, so far, point to number one.

The other two lead no where.

#2 leads to a finite (hence 'dead') accidental universe.

and #3 leads you in circles.. who created God?

I have yet to see a glimmer of any proof or evidence or reason that would shake me from path #1.

Life arises from consciousness.

Jeannie, Christians don't believe in Hinduism, Buddism Tarot cards, Pantheism, etc...however, we do NOT feel it is our place, to go around PUTTING OTHERS DOWN ,WHO HAVE DIFFERENT BELIEFS from ours......and we also do NOT go around, annoncing on here that OTHER BELIEFS on here are a LIE!!!

We SIMPLY share the gospel , AND WHAT WE BELEIVE......but we do NOT feel it is our place to PUT DOWN ANOTHERS BELIEFS!!!!

AND DOING SO , IS SHEER ABUSE OF THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH !!!

I am exploring the actual process of the expansion of life and the universe. I am not claiming to know where consciousness or god came from originally. No body knows that.

I am just exploring via my imagination, what is going to perpetuate life and the expanding universe.

I believe that consciousness or some kind of awareness, that exists outside of space-time, flows through all things in this reality giving it existence and life resulting in different degrees of awareness in every form.

I do not believe this universe and its life forms are the result of an accident.

It's just a simple idea I wanted to discuss with people who were interested or had something to add.

JB

Jeannie.....He certainly did IMPLY it ,you say?

Next time WHY NOT ASK him first, if he was at odds with you.
I am sure he would tell you NOT!!!

I certainly DON't see him at odds with you...at all.... I just see someone defending himself , because he is tired of being misquoted and misinterpreted!!!

Okay maybe you don't. You can only speak for yourself.

But I still would like to stay on the topic of this thread and not be getting into all of this personal stuff.

I believe in freedom of speech and I don't believe anyone has broken any rules on this thread. Nuff said.

Please stay on the topic of this thread.

JB

Staying on the topic, without putdowns of another's faith....is very welcome.

In closing...please notice that, not one christian, or even a nonchristian, ever comes on your Tarot Card thread, and calls it a lie.
Not one.

Please give others the same respect,Jeannie.

Praying this finally gets across.

And if you have noticed, I have never gone into the Christian Coffee house and said anything there either.

I started this thread because I wanted to talk about my ideas, and I want it to remain on topic. It is not a discussion about Christianity. I am asking for people's honest opinions and discussion about the topic posted. If it is too controversial for your sensibilities or for Spiders, please just don't enter.

JB

Creative Soul was not implying anything , but was only attempting to point out how you and Abra sometimes contradict yourself.
Or at least, it appeared that way to Creative Soul...because of his own interpretation of what was shared.

Actually, you and Creative ,are BOTH subject to miscommunication , simply because you both think differently.


Creative thinkers and Logical thinkers, trying to communicate with each other, can result in serious miscommunication , if BOTH don't take time to really LISTEN , to what the other party is actually "Saying".

There is freedom of speech, but the Administrators who maintain and pay the fees associated with keeping this site online have placed restrictions on your freedom of speech while posting HERE (you can always create your own website and post whatever you want). They put those restrictions in place so that the forums would be peaceful and respectful. Freedom of speech is restricted by the very constitution and our laws. You aren't allowed to slander or libel someone. You can't shout "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater. We have copyright laws to protect intellectual property. There are laws against plagiarism. It is your choice to post here, therefore you should follow their rules.

Spider, nobody is slandering or libeling anybody. This thread is not about Christianity. Please keep on topic if you are going to post here. That is also one of the rules.



JB

I don't suppose the words "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" apply to your having called me a 'jackass' in these threads some time ago, eh? And as far as libel, methinketh thou doth protest too much as you stood complacently by while it went on right under your nose recently in that homosexual poll thread you started some weeks ago. Or how about reporting some of your brethern when they post about unbelievers being 'sad souls'?

Give it a rest. And follow your _own_ rules that you made a grand show of posting here recently, too.

-Kerry O.

What I said was because Mirror is not at odds with JB...

Admit that you and I are at odds??? Well of course we are at odds JB, for you to suggest otherwise is for you to conveniently forget all of the sarcasm which you display.

Perhaps your disrespectful nature towards another and their person is normal for you, and therefore your narrow perception does not allow your awareness to develop regarding your inability to allow another to keep their dignity intact.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt!

I have never pretended to not be at odds with you. I told you that I do my best to not take your jabs personally, and reassured you that my intent was not to dismantle your beliefs. I have clarified things at times, when I felt like applying the energy.




That is too funny! No thanks, I do not need you to clarify Mirror's words to me. He did a fine job in disputing you, all by himself.

Feral's support of your claim did everything but...

I found this humourous!!! I gotta thank feral, although I am quite sure her support was not meant for me...

Regarding the Venus flytrap... and consciousness!

What are you talking about Michael?

Jeannie has been saying that there is a level of consciousness in everything all along, and that consciousness takes many levels.

What Mirror said in his post is in perfect harmony with what Jeannie had stated, and not with the position you had taken.

What you were demanding is that only animals with brains can be conscious, and you were rejecting the idea of lower levels of consciousness.

At least that's my understanding of what you were saying.

If you agree with what Mirror had posted; that consciousness comes in levels, then you actually agree with what JB and I have been saying all along.

I agreed with Mirror because I agreed with what he said! Not because of his relationship with JB. I have no clue what his relationship with JB even is! For all I know they're sneaking out behind the forums having an affair between posts.

Clearly you have taken offense to something JB said and now you're trying to publicly belittle her by trying to claim that she was wrong and you were right. Please get over it Michael. That kind of tactic to reclaim your self-dignity isn't going to work anyway. Just give it up. It's not doing anyone any good.

If you want to claim that only animals with brains constitute consciousness and awareness we'll accept that as your view. No need to prove it. It's ultimately just a game of semantics anyway. We prefer to give the word "consciousness" a more abstract berth than you do. Let's just leave it at that. Blame it on semantics and give it a rest. No need to be trying to force an ultimate confrontation. What's the point to that?

How about this?,.... You're right based on your meaning of consciousness, and we're right based our meaning of consciousness.

This way there are no winners or losers. Just a bunch of happy people.

Well, talk about making it personal!

Your persistence and insistence that I have been "disrespectful" towards "another" (I am assuming you mean YOU) is baffling.

Then, in the same breath you describe my "perception" as being "narrow" and that such "narrow" perception does not allow my "awareness to develop" regarding my inability to allow "another" (again ambiguous..I am assuming you mean YOU) to keep their (your) "dignity" intact.

I'm sorry, but this just sounds like you expect me to cater to your ego. It is not about winning or loosing an argument for me, or about "allowing someone to keep their dignity."

I was actually hoping to have a genuine communication with "someone." (you) and share some real ideas. Instead I end up in a battle of semantics where you ask the question. "Why does there have to be a point?" When I asked you what point you are trying to make.

I just wanted to understand where you are coming from without having to do the silly dance around your ego.

But you are still making it personal. I have not been "disrespectful" to you. You frustrate my efforts to communicate, and you want me to patronize you? That, I think would be disrespectful to you. Stop taking everything so personal.

JB

This is what mirror said. All he is saying is that the more senses a life form has, the more conscious awareness or the higher degree of consciousness it can experience (or channel)

He also said:
"I'm saying conciousness arises from awareness."

My statement is that "Life arises from consciousness."

I consider awareness and consciousness to be very similar things. But consciousness for me, is more of a current of life and awareness.

Most of the disagreement can be semantics and our understanding of what consciousness truly is.

To add to that, I am not sure if any of us have the same understanding of what consciousness is, so it is difficult to make statements about it.

JB

1) I wasn't accusing anyone of slander, I was giving examples of how our laws limit our freedom of speech. That would have been obvious if you had read my post with an open mind instead of looking for any point you could nitpick.

2) It's against the rules to bring up past disagreements.



I apologized for calling you a name a long time ago. I am sorry that you can't let it go. You frequently bring it up, as if it's a valid argument. We have all done things in our past of which we are ashamed. Putting that aside, it's against the rules to make derogatory comments about another's religion. Period. If you feel that I have broken the rules, then I encourage you to contact the moderators and report me.