Ok let's do a lil test......and just for argument sake we will use me. One night God came to me, and he spoke to me.....He showed me to not be afraid of my visions, and that he had great plans for me.

a. I could listen to God which in turn would raise my consciousness, to increase one's awareness and understanding of one's own needs, behavior, attitudes, and life in general.

Now yes I could of ignored and just went on with my life, my daily struggles, etc. etc....

So therefore does my life arise from consciousness or consciousness arises from life. I would have to say both....Because of the things that God showes me it brought clarity to all that was me.

Now for you if consciousness arises from life, then perhaps life (and consciousness) is just a freak accident.

But for me it's just brings clarity to what the heck I am meant to do or my ultimate purpose on this planet. It's a clarity that is not only impossible to fanthom if your not living, but also goes beyond all that is on this planet. You don't ever look at anything and take it for granted.....from flowers blooming, to a tornado, anything....Instead you look in amazement of what a wonderful creator He truly is.

I don't see any of this as being seperate...I look at it more arte Of course the third option (answered by religion) is that a separate creator, the "All Mighty God" created everything.

Now let's take the next part....just again for the sake of argument......As I know it...God just has always been......He then created the universe including Earth....He chose Earth as his special place, filled it with all the specials and that is that. Now also in doing so God gave man direction, with which he (man) didn't listen...and you know the rest.

Now you can think that this world is accidental....me no way.....God had major purpose with every lil thing he created. And for me if God has spoken to me whether people believe this or not...that is all the proof I need.

From Morningsong:



Now I am going to assume that you don't mean this in the literal sense because the Bible says that even Jesus was born of a woman. Only Adam was made from the dust of the earth and had life breathed into him, and Eve, according to legend, was made from Adam's rib. Here you are claiming that god made you much the same way he made the first man...from the dust of the earth.




Now if you are suggesting that the above is true, then are you saying that a baby who is born, is not alive until it takes its first breath? That it has no awareness, perception etc.until then? (If so, then you should not be apposed to abortion.)

Of course maybe you are claiming that you were not born, and that god did make you from the dust of the earth and then breathed life into you. Can you prove that? That is pretty amazing if that is true.

Were you not born like the rest of us Morningsong?

JB

From Feralcatlady:



I think you are very correct in saying both because I see consciousness as arising in degrees through the medium of life.

But in the beginning, the very beginning, it had to be consciousness first in order that life could arise in my opinion.

This is because consciousness is the same as the holy spirit. We are just calling it by a different name in my opinion. It has always been and always will be. I believe it is a current that flows through all things.

Given that, it is also possible that there are beings (entities) that arise within the all encompassing body of god, that attain the knowledge and power to create worlds, hence the gods (conscious creators) "are born."

Those creators create worlds. The creator of this world is the one you worship. He is a "god" and a creator, but he is a part of the oneness of the universe just like all the other creators. You really have no way of being sure that there is only one of these creators; and logically it does not make sense to me that there is only one as they seem to be in a constant struggle for power and dominion over the worlds they rule.

There is no peace on earth and there is no peace in the heavens either. There is a constant struggle going on.

I do not dismiss the information that comes from religions of gods and creation. There is a reason for it. Somehow it all fits somewhere. I see similarities in all of these teachings and they all have some validity.

But I am not willing to pick one god and declare him the one and only all mighty creator of everything. That does not make logical sense.

JB

I just vividly realized the truth of this last night in bed.

We say that there are three possiblities.

1. Atheism - no spirit world
2. Pantheism - we are the spirit
3. Biblical-type views - we are created by an external spirit.

Well, duh?

If #3 is true, then the so-called external spirit or "God" would itself then be a pantheist!!!

In other words, "God" itself would have a pantheisic nature.

It would be the eternal spirit that always exists.

All the biblical-type religions are doing is claiming that a pantheistic God exists and it created us!

So why bother with the extra step? Why not just realize that if God has to have a pantheisic nature to begin with, then why can we just have a pantheistic nature to begin with?

What's the point in inventing a God who has a pantheistic nature, and then creates us as some kind of pets?

It doesn't help a thing. It's adds nothing.

If we can imagine that God has a pantheistic nature then why not just realize that we could too!!!

From my point of view there's no justification for #3 at all.

It really just comes down to two possiblities.

1. The world is spiritual - (i.e. based on pantheism)
2. The world is not spiritual - (i.e. it's an accident - atheism)

Because even if an external deity is said to exist, then the true nature of that deity would need to be pantheitic (unless of of course it has yet another creator, etc, etc, etc.)

So the bottom line is ultiamtely just pantheism or atheism.

All other choices are just variations of these two themes.

To claim that an external diety exists, that always was and always will be, is just to claim that the true nature of God itself is pantheistic!

So there's really only 2 possiblities not 3.

Either reality is spiritual in nature or it's not.

There, I've whittled it down to just 2 possiblities!

PROGRESS AT LAST!!!

Now if we can whittle one more away we'll be home free!

I agree with your assessment Abra. The so-called "external" creators (gods) are part of the pantheistic picture.

Therefore, it is not an "external" god to our entire universe. It just "seems" to be external because humans see themselves as different from their creators. And in body, they certainly are. Their creators are not human. ~~They are something else.

Source, I believe, wants embodiment. It wants acknowledgment that it exists. It wants a body to inhabit and express itself through. It wants form.

This "body" is the material universe at large. But the goal is not just matter, (plants, animals, planets, stars etc.) The goal is a body that can sense, think, perceive and be aware of itself and be fully conscious.

Humans themselves are both the creation and creators in training. The human form was designed to embody god. (The spirit of god or consciousness.) More simply put, it was designed as an environment for conscious awareness.

The living form of the body is simply an environment for ('god') consciousness. The goal is conscious realization of self in living form.

Thats my opinion anyway.

JB

In making a comparison to Religion, the Father, the son, and the holy spirit this is what I imagine:

"The father," is the I AM of the entire universal body.
"The holy spirit" is consciousness, a moving current and this is "the word."
"The son" is the body or bodies it creates as environments to inhabit.

JB

No JB, I did not mean it in the Literal sense... When I said God made me from the dust of the earth, and then GOD BREATHED LIFE into me... I was referring to "mankind", when I said "me",
to add a personal touch

BUT......Jeannie.... you already know what DUST is.
Tiny particle, right?


And Yes , Jeannie.....life begins IN the womb.....where God breathes life into that tiny egg and sperm when they JOIN(fuse) together ...and begin to grow.
But nothing could GROW....unless it FIRST had LIFE sparked(breathed) into it

Btw...the word, " breathed"......
as in, God "breathed" life into man.....
is not the same meaning as ...
man "breathed" air .

Okay..whew! Thanks.

Where does consciousness come from?

If you're a pantheist it comes from spirit.

If you're an atheist it comes from accidents.

There are no other choices.

You are missing the most popular and ironically, the only correct choice.

Nope. I'm not missing anything.

The two choice I offered are the only two available.

http://www.justsayhi.com/topic/show/134567

wow......

THE FATHER.......EACH beings immortal self, that live seperated from it's human self in the immortal or unseen realm.....or in a different dimension.....

radio and tv waves we cannot SEE but they travel to and fro in another dimension anyways, and the proof is what you SEE they have created.....

all mens thoughts are as energy, such energy that it was said "let US make men"........not me god, but US.....each beings logos was there at that time, but without understanding of any "wisdom", just as a child has not had experience of COMPARISON to have "wisdom" to KNOW what it is yet.......

thoughts are as "demons" if they wish the demise of another, or angels if they wish bliss for others......

what each being create with their thoughts is created first in an unseen realm, and is actually created physically IF it be the same as laid out in ADVANCE by both immortal and mortal body together............or one could say if your gaurdian angel and you do not agree, YOU CANNOT CREATE IT, NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE CONSCIOUS ALONE MAY TRY............or who can reist the truth of each beings destiny or pre-scripted path....AS LAID OUT AND VOLUNTEERED BY EACH BEFORE ARRIVAL INTO MORTAL TIME, OR AFTER COMING THRU THE TIME MACHINE, LOL.......as immortality knows not yet any reference as it has not KNOWN mortal time yet......

each being connect BACK to itself when the DREAM is over......

THE SON.......each being's mortal physical body, or temporary vessel for energy, or spirit.....

holy spirit.......the fearful spirit or energy that propel each "body" and conscious "mind" to believe or decide that each thing SEEN be holy or pure, or unholy or bad......religion, or perhaps the greater ROOT being a "moral" standard that each TRY to abide by, lol......

a positive and negative charge was needed that "fuel" emotions to keep one moving forward down the hard path of mortal unlife.....

the "spirit of god" was another spirit obviously TOTALLY overlooked that was said to contain ALL TRUTH, enought to make ANY FREE when known......nothing more than the REAL "YOU" that was inserted into a foreign or HOLY SPIRIT controlled mortal body....

since EACH thing that live be unique, and EACH have a unique "view", seeing all thru a "conscious" holy spirit and also thru the "spirit of truth", then the PURPOSE of this confusing anomoly of mind and heart when completed bring each to a "wisdom" when completed.....

that it COULD NOT SEE the whole truth thru conscious sight and hearing alone, but needed the connection to ITSELF or truth to know the truth......

then the "conscious" no longer guide EACH by good and bad standards or morals, but instead now whisper as each negative feeling arise a lie, or conscious "observation" that only be half the truth, for the subconscious, or spirit of god, or the truth of the heart that lay within each, to interpret and now answer with the WHOLE TRUTH......

how is not the life and mind and words of even Jesus portrayed any differtently than this......

i see no more than this in the life of Jesus, and indeed seem to be consistent for all beings born......

even Jesus declared that if the truth be "found out" it would have to equate how ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.....a clue as to the "principles" NEEDED to find the "whole truth" of where, how and why each came to be here.......

if the only belief that mankind as a whole held on to was that all humans were PRICELESS......all TRUTH could be found, then all peace amoung men would not resist us......

Oh?

Is that right, Abra?

Because ABRA said so??

No, not because Abra says so.

Because if you claim that your external godhead always was and always will be, then all you are doing it claiming that it is pantheistic itself.

You are just claiming that this is its true nature.

Then you move on from there and start claiming that this pantheistic entity has created us as its pets.

You ultimately must begin with a pantheistic Godhead.

You're just claiming that the true nature of God is pantheistic and then that we are just its pets.

That is what such stories must reduce to.

4. God just is, and we are His handiwork.


Now then, let's get to know Him .


peace.

Amen.

Biblically, they are all the "I AM".

Why not just just accept it and quit making it so difficult?

It is easy to just be happy once He speaks to your heart, but it is easy to be happy even when He doesn't.

But then, it is "joy unspeakable" when the I AM does speak.

There is something about it with that loving feeling attached to His Love.

wwwwhhheeeeeee, yippeeeee..

silly, huh?

If I may brag

I think my answer was the best one

so far

OK

I am lost

you have eighteen answers here.

Which one?

no, really, which one, Mirror?

the first one?

I am curious.