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| Topic: Life arises from consciousness and other choices. | |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Sat 06/21/08 12:42 PM
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JB:
I'm so spoiled. TRIBO: Ahh!! the "real truth" - now that's something i can agree with you on 100% 
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It is all a result of the difference between what one is perceiving and what one is aware of that they are perceiving.
James, once again your response to me regarding what has been accepted as true in another's words... I disagree, and here's why,... You were holding the position that perception leads to consciouness. Mirror's post (as he posted it) appeared to me to be suggesting various levels of consciousness. So I don't see them as being the same at all. Again, there's a difference between something leading to consciouness, and having various levels of conciousness. I find this interesting. The claim is that the more senses a living thing has, the higher it's level of consciousness. This necessarily invokes the fact that consciousness is increased according to how many senses a living thing has. There is no way around that notion, if the statement is held as true. So then, more senses lead to higher consciousness. No way around that. If more equates to higher, then less must also equate to lower. If the quantities correlates with each other... they do. None equates to zero. If you choose to reject the claim that consciousness is increased or decreased according to the amount of senses that a living thing has, then do so. For one who often uses the having cake and eating it too allusion against another's argument, you sure seem to be standing directly upon that ground. And the difference being that if we take your position that perception leads to consciouness then spirit cannot have any form of consciouness at all. This is the real issue at hand here. On the other hand, if consciouness exists on all levels, then spirit can be the source of consciouness. So these two views are humongously different. If a frog has wings... There is no logical support for that claim. |
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QUOTE:abra
On the other hand, if consciouness exists on all levels, then spirit can be the source of consciouness. So these two views are humongously different. creative: If a frog has wings... There is no logical support for that claim. tribo: Are we talking the spiritual aspect's of a winged frog? Or the physical nature? Or are you just using the flying frog in a analogical / symbolical / metaphorical manner? The "winged frog" or "Ribbitus Asencious" - found only in the thin upper atmosphere's of planet's "void" of intellegent life - are almost exstinct due to the lack of stratopheric space fly's, aka - buzzieus anoyingus - therefore causing the RA's to leave their normal environment and come closer to the groung level environment with "mankind" - aka - "homo stupideus". because of this ineffable state of circumstances, it is to be taken into consideration that the use of their name be left out of all forum's world wide till they can once again recover from the system shock of having to deal with HS life form's careless use in making useless point's in off froggy topics!! This also must be abided by those wishing to use other such endangered species such as "Porceous Acensious", the "flying pig"- or any other species or sub species that cannot tolerate being used in a close to ground discussion. your observence to this post will be much appreciated. and foolish disreguard will result in stiff monetary fines and public humility - you think the scarlet letter was bad?? mmmm - just wait!!! |
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If a frog has wings... There is no logical support for that claim. As I have said repeatedly. There is no proof (or logical support) for of any of the three choices listed, including yours. Plus logic for anything must begin from the exact same premise agreed upon by both sides of the argument. Even this has not been accomplished. In my opinion: A living thing's consciousness level is not dependent upon the quantity of possessed senses. However, I would suggest that all physical constructs that arise in any creature for environmental sensing purposes, have arisen because of the flow of consciousness through it. The above is completely logical from my premise that consciousness flows through all things. Jeannie |
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If a frog has wings... There is no logical support for that claim. As I have said repeatedly. There is no proof (or logical support) for of any of the three choices listed, including yours. Plus logic for anything must begin from the exact same premise agreed upon by both sides of the argument. Even this has not been accomplished. In my opinion: A living thing's consciousness level is not dependent upon the quantity of possessed senses. However, I would suggest that all physical constructs that arise in any creature for environmental sensing purposes, have arisen because of the flow of consciousness through it. The above is completely logical from my premise that consciousness flows through all things. Jeannie Thank you for not continueing to use the ribbitus acensceous any further in your discussion 
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@ Tribo... That is great!!! Muchos gracias!!! JB... However, I would suggest that all physical constructs that arise in any creature for environmental sensing purposes, have arisen because of the flow of consciousness through it. I can go with this...  It would be interesting to consider, however, I would need you to be able to clarify two things. One, what do you define consciousness as? This is key for my further understanding of your claim. Two, what constitutes the distinction(s) between the different levels of consciousness? If there are different levels, then there must be something which affects the amount of consciousness that a thing can possess. What is that? |
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Creative I would like to address your claims about me that you keep bringing up. You said:
My focus is that an author is being rejected not the content of words. Not true. You could change your profile and change your name, and I would engage you in conversation the same as I do anyone else, by the content of your words. You are accusing me of rejecting you personally. I am not rejecting you. I am disagreeing with your premise, and your conclusions and your logic which is built upon a premise that has not been established or agreed upon by the both of us. If a premise not agreed upon, the argument is doomed to fail and cannot go any further. Again I have no attachment to you as a direct result of my value placement regarding that which you have shown yourself to be. The above statement makes no sense to me, it is vague and meaningless. "...regarding that which you have shown yourself to be." ???? What on earth are you talking about? What, in your judgment have I shown myself to be? Are you making a personal judgment about me? If so, I have no idea what you are suggesting that I have "..shown myself to be." So whatever this kind of discourse is supposed to accomplish, or imply, it is not productive, it is suggestive and hostile and at the very least, vague. I am merely pointing out the obvious to James, not you, I would not expect you to understand the construct which must follow, based upon Mirror's words being held as true. The above statement can be interpreted as: "I'm talking to James anyway, not to you, I would not expect you to understand." (I guess I'm too stupid, stubborn, ignorant, or something... but in any case you are saying that you don't expect that I have enough intelligence to understand the obvious.) I can't be expected to understand the obvious ~based upon Mirror's words being held as true.  The above is only a small sampling of how you talk with disrespect to me and how you suggest that I don't know enough to "understand or comprehend the obvious" of what you expound. I believe understand you quite well. Just because I disagree with you, does not mean I misunderstand you. I don't much care for your methods of communication. You get way too deeply lost in semantics, proverbs, pros, and analytical thinking for my comfort zone. I prefer a more direct to-the-point kind of conversation. If you could do that, we might find some common ground. Until then, we can just agree that we disagree on the nature of consciousness. Your definition and understanding of it is just not the same as mine. And stop believing that I am "rejecting the messenger or the author (you)." This is your belief and it is causing you some kind of distress. It is not true. I reject your premise and I disagree with your conclusions. Do you always take that personal? Jeannie |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Sat 06/21/08 06:17 PM
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JB...
Regarding those things which you just quoted... Are you not the pot calling the kettle black. The only reason that I have not highlighted your negativity towards me throughout the past, is because I could not open more than one page...  I can now though!!! Wanna call a truce and start over? I would like that! |
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JB... However, I would suggest that all physical constructs that arise in any creature for environmental sensing purposes, have arisen because of the flow of consciousness through it. I can go with this... It would be interesting to consider, however, I would need you to be able to clarify two things. One, what do you define consciousness as? This is key for my further understanding of your claim. That is a tough one ~ and one upon which many very lengthy books have been written. My definition of consciousness starts with the premise that all is one being, and that all things in our universe are connected. Consciousness is the current that connects all things, and flows through all things. It is more than just awareness. It is information, energy, will, love, desire, feeling, and power. The whole (the universe) is intelligent and aware and consciousness is the current by which it manifests and moves information, creates itself vibration frequency and form. It is a life-giving current. Two, what constitutes the distinction(s) between the different levels of consciousness? If there are different levels, then there must be something which affects the amount of consciousness that a thing can possess. What is that? Things and creatures don't "possess" consciousness. They channel it. It moves through them and gives them life and information for growth, evolution, adaptation etc. A thing or creature arises and evolves from the basic building blocks of material manifested into form at the quantum level of our beginnings. Energy changes to into matter, etc. Our reality is all vibration and frequencies. At the quantum level, a particle does not exist unless an observer is looking at it. Otherwise it is a wave. Am I going too small? LOL Anyway, that's the way I see it. Life arises from spirit, or consciousness. JB |
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JB... Regarding those things which you just quoted... Are you not the pot calling the kettle black. The only reason that I have not highlighted your negativity towards me throughout the past, is because I could not open more than one page... I can now though!!! Wanna call a truce and start over? I would like that! That is a great idea. Truce. 
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Forgive my recent behaviours which included those deliberate personal remarks. There is no excuse, however, it does not surprise me given the situational awareness regarding my personal state of being.
No excuses... my sincerest apologies! I violated a rule which I usually keep close at hand... Take nothing personally, if a reflection seems to be one that is not of the subject in the mirror(myself) then it surely is one of the one holding the mirror. Rather than go through your post and fault-find that which seems illogical to me, I should and will honour your right to believe that which you may, and hopefully that will allow everyone involved to keep their dignity intact. |
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QUOTE:abra On the other hand, if consciouness exists on all levels, then spirit can be the source of consciouness. So these two views are humongously different. creative: If a frog has wings... There is no logical support for that claim. tribo: Are we talking the spiritual aspect's of a winged frog? Or the physical nature? Or are you just using the flying frog in a analogical / symbolical / metaphorical manner? The "winged frog" or "Ribbitus Asencious" - found only in the thin upper atmosphere's of planet's "void" of intellegent life - are almost exstinct due to the lack of stratopheric space fly's, aka - buzzieus anoyingus - therefore causing the RA's to leave their normal environment and come closer to the groung level environment with "mankind" - aka - "homo stupideus". because of this ineffable state of circumstances, it is to be taken into consideration that the use of their name be left out of all forum's world wide till they can once again recover from the system shock of having to deal with HS life form's careless use in making useless point's in off froggy topics!! This also must be abided by those wishing to use other such endangered species such as "Porceous Acensious", the "flying pig"- or any other species or sub species that cannot tolerate being used in a close to ground discussion. your observence to this post will be much appreciated. and foolish disreguard will result in stiff monetary fines and public humility - you think the scarlet letter was bad?? mmmm - just wait!!! Very interesting tribo.  Very interesting indeed.
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QUOTE:abra On the other hand, if consciouness exists on all levels, then spirit can be the source of consciouness. So these two views are humongously different. creative: If a frog has wings... There is no logical support for that claim. tribo: Are we talking the spiritual aspect's of a winged frog? Or the physical nature? Or are you just using the flying frog in a analogical / symbolical / metaphorical manner? The "winged frog" or "Ribbitus Asencious" - found only in the thin upper atmosphere's of planet's "void" of intellegent life - are almost exstinct due to the lack of stratopheric space fly's, aka - buzzieus anoyingus - therefore causing the RA's to leave their normal environment and come closer to the groung level environment with "mankind" - aka - "homo stupideus". because of this ineffable state of circumstances, it is to be taken into consideration that the use of their name be left out of all forum's world wide till they can once again recover from the system shock of having to deal with HS life form's careless use in making useless point's in off froggy topics!! This also must be abided by those wishing to use other such endangered species such as "Porceous Acensious", the "flying pig"- or any other species or sub species that cannot tolerate being used in a close to ground discussion. your observence to this post will be much appreciated. and foolish disreguard will result in stiff monetary fines and public humility - you think the scarlet letter was bad?? mmmm - just wait!!! Very interesting tribo. Very interesting indeed. tanx, 
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QUOTE:abra On the other hand, if consciouness exists on all levels, then spirit can be the source of consciouness. So these two views are humongously different. creative: If a frog has wings... There is no logical support for that claim. tribo: Are we talking the spiritual aspect's of a winged frog? Or the physical nature? Or are you just using the flying frog in a analogical / symbolical / metaphorical manner? The "winged frog" or "Ribbitus Asencious" - found only in the thin upper atmosphere's of planet's "void" of intellegent life - are almost exstinct due to the lack of stratopheric space fly's, aka - buzzieus anoyingus - therefore causing the RA's to leave their normal environment and come closer to the groung level environment with "mankind" - aka - "homo stupideus". because of this ineffable state of circumstances, it is to be taken into consideration that the use of their name be left out of all forum's world wide till they can once again recover from the system shock of having to deal with HS life form's careless use in making useless point's in off froggy topics!! This also must be abided by those wishing to use other such endangered species such as "Porceous Acensious", the "flying pig"- or any other species or sub species that cannot tolerate being used in a close to ground discussion. your observence to this post will be much appreciated. and foolish disreguard will result in stiff monetary fines and public humility - you think the scarlet letter was bad?? mmmm - just wait!!! Very interesting tribo. Very interesting indeed. tanx, not a since 76 |
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Edited by
davidben1
on
Tue 06/24/08 01:38 PM
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NOT ONE HERE THAT WRITE MADE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO BE BORN......SO CONSCIOUS CHOICE CANNOT MAKE ONE SEE TRUTH, BUT RATHER THE SUBCONSCIOUS THAT LEAD ONE TO A "PLACE" WHERE ONE "KNOW THEY CAN MAKE A CHOICE"......IF ONE BELIEVE THEY PREVIOUSLY BEFORE ARRIVING AGREED TO COME TO EARTH AND LIVE THIS LIFE, THEN I WOULD AGREE, BUT THIS WAS A "SUBCONSCIOUS" CHOICE THAT ONE REMEMBER NOT WHILE HERE IF LIVING THUR THE CONSCIOUS MIND........SO THROW AWAY THE CONSCIOUS MIND AS RECKLESS AND HALF-TRUTH......IT IS WHAT SEE ONLY PHYSICAL LOGIC, AND NOT UNSEEN LOGIC THAT CONTROL THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE......THE BARRIER THAT SEPERATE ALL MEN FROM THEIR SUBCONSCIOUS CAN BE OPENED, AND THEN THE STREAM OF THOUGHT THAT TIE ONESELF TO THEIR PAST BEFORE CONSCIOUS LIFE CAN BE OPENED, AND ALL TRUTH BE KNOWN, AND WHOLE LOGIC CAN BE ACCCESSED IN ALL THINGS......IT IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT THAT HUMANS ONLY USE A FRACTION OF THE BRAIN POWER AND EVEN PHYSICAL POWER......WHAT IS KEEPING US FROM ACCESSING IT ALL IS THE QUESTION TO ASK?
BOTTOM LINES OF WHAT WAS LEARNED YESTERDAY, THAT HAVE CHANGED AND WE DO NOT SEE THEM, BEING TO BUSY SEEKING AN AGENDA, AND YES, EVEN AN AGENDA TO BE OR HAVE TRUTH KEEP ONE FROM IT......IT HAS TO BE SEEING "ALL IS TRUTH" THAT BRING ONE TO "SEE" TRUTH AT ALL TIMES AND IN EVERY SITUATION...... IF ONE SAY I HATE YOU, AND ANONTHER THINKS I HAVE DONE NOTHING TO MAKE THEM HATE ME, THEN WILL THEY EVER SEE "HOW" OR THE TRUTH OF "HOW" THEY HAVE MADE ANOTHER TO FEEL HATRED TOWARD THEM, LOL.........NO!!! |
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NOT ONE HERE THAT WRITE MADE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO BE BORN... First of all, you couldn't know that. Second, I did.  Third, I believe that all who are here made that choice to be here. JB |
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NOT ONE HERE THAT WRITE MADE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO BE BORN... First of all, you couldn't know that. Second, I did. Third, I believe that all who are here made that choice to be here. JB u stopped reading or hearing when u heard the first thing you disagreed with, as right after i explained what you now write......if you care to you can read again, as what is the point of writing again the same thing, lol.......it is there....smiles |
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NOT ONE HERE THAT WRITE MADE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO BE BORN... First of all, you couldn't know that. Second, I did. Third, I believe that all who are here made that choice to be here. JB u stopped reading or hearing when u heard the first thing you disagreed with, as right after i explained what you now write......if you care to you can read again, as what is the point of writing again the same thing, lol.......it is there....smiles A complete statement should hold to truth on its own. Yours did not. I don't believe in "unconscious." I do believe that we sometimes draw a curtain on our conscious memories but that all memories remain in tact for us as we ascend. We are, after all, limited to the human consciousness and the human brain while in this construct.
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NOT ONE HERE THAT WRITE MADE THE CONSCIOUS CHOICE TO BE BORN... First of all, you couldn't know that. Second, I did. Third, I believe that all who are here made that choice to be here. JB u stopped reading or hearing when u heard the first thing you disagreed with, as right after i explained what you now write......if you care to you can read again, as what is the point of writing again the same thing, lol.......it is there....smiles A complete statement should hold to truth on its own. Yours did not. WOW....A BIG ASERTION TO MAKE DEAR FRIEND, WHEN YOU ENCLOSE NO WORDS TO SHOW HOW.....HUM I don't believe in "unconscious." I do believe that we sometimes draw a curtain on our conscious memories but that all memories remain in tact for us as we ascend. how can one SAY what they believe and NOT include the logic that was used to form their beliefs, to hold them up high and be ready to have them inspected by ALL others when one choses to pronounce them aloud.......i am waiting to hear WHY you do not believe in the unconscious, when every man or women or child that lose consciousness is left with UNCONSCIOUSNESS....... We are, after all, limited to the human consciousness and the human brain while in this construct. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE THAT SAYS WE ARE HELD ONLY TO THE CONSCIOUSNESS OF THE MIND WHILE HERE, EXCEPT BELIEVEING IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO SEE BEYOND........THERE ARE MANY, MANY, MANY WRITINGS THAT SHOW MANY HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE WELL IN ADVANCE.......THERE IS NO "CONSCIOUS" WAY TO SEE AHEAD IN TIME, ESPECIALLY WHITH ACUTE PRECISION........MANY HAVE SEEN BEYOND THE VEIL OF THE CONSCIOUS MIND WHILE ALIVE.......THERE IS NO LOGIC FOR YOUR BELIEF ON THIS POINT THAT I CAN SEE..... if one sleep or rest in the sub-conscious or unconscious mind, where and what do they "hear and see", and what do these things mean.....everything have meaning to a mind that "sees" all contains some truth........ believe what another says TOTALLY, even IF one know they are lying, and one can see HOW and WHY they constructed each sentence they speak, and see plainly all the lies, which leaves the rest of the truth in PLAIN SITE to just pick up by simple deduction of all that is left, as if one know another is lying, many of the pieces are ALREADY known..........pronounce them as a liar and no truth except the fact that they are a liar can be seen, lol.......why it was said not to judge another, as doing this HIDE the OBVIOUS TRUTH.........the amazing power of the truth............. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Tue 06/24/08 05:43 PM
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how can one SAY what they believe and NOT include the logic that was used to form their beliefs, to hold them up high and be ready to have them inspected by ALL others when one choses to pronounce them aloud. We all believe in different things. The true nature of reality is illogical. We all have reasons for what we believe. The path we have walked have brought us to our conclusions. I feel no need to explain myself or my beliefs or reasons for them to everyone who demands it. I don't have the time. Still, I will state what I believe if I chose. ......i am waiting to hear WHY you do not believe in the unconscious, when every man or women or child that lose consciousness is left with UNCONSCIOUSNESS....... I believe that consciousness, as it flows through things does so in degrees, and if it exists at all, then it cannot not exist. The term unconsciousness negates the existence of any consciousness. They cancel each other out. A person might appear to be "unconscious" by our standards, but there is still a degree of consciousness operating (flowing) there as long as life remains. When the person dies,then perhaps the flow of consciousness leaves the body and flows elsewhere. Some have said it takes three days for all signs of life (consciousness) to exit a body. Perhaps it never does exit completely. JB |
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