But how can the bible put itself on a pedastal to say that this is the way to do things, when there are things in it that god says, that are outrageously socially unacceptable?

We live under the curse of sin. It's because of God's love that we are NOT consumed. The Bible says we are MORE than conquerers by the Blood of the Lamb.

God does say to be strong & of a GOOD courage. Those who caved gave up their own courage like Esua did when he gave up his birthright for a bowl of stew. Why blame God for your wrong choices when He would freely accept you whenever you are ready to return to Him?

God warns of "political" fallout for disobedience to His word.

The Bible also says... My children whom I am again suffering birth pains until Christ is completely & permanently formed within you. Tell me, you who are bent on being under the law, will you listen to what the law REALLY says?

The law is powerless without God & without the conscience of God humans resort to rebellion.

My point EXACTLY. The carnal mind can't possibly understand. Don't blame God for slavery & those sort of things. That was left up to man's own imaginations.

Regardless... man evolved because of God's mercies. Man disgresses absent the conscience of God. Don't blame God for man's brutality. there yu go...those free will choices are not of God but man.

Humanity still has the power to overcome through God's provisions.

So, where is the forgiveness?
There is none.
Your god uses hell as a punishment threat.

The law is not powerless without god. What a ridiculous statement. Im an athiest and I believe that murdering children is wrong. no imaginary god told me this. but god is happy with this idea ... not just once, but regularly.

Anyone who advocates the murder of innocent children as a punishment doesnt deserve a moment's thought from me apart from revulsion and disgust.
Precisely what I think of your god.

Untrue.
Many, if not all, of the incidents in question involve god giving direct orders of action to his followers. Did God really tell Moses in the 30th Chapter of Exodus that if someone copies God's recipe for hair oil, that he should be put to death?

Did God really order his followers to rip open the bellies of pregnant women? To kill children and babies with the edges of their swords and the heels of their boots?

Remember Moses' command to Joshua upon entering the Promise Land? Spare no one, man, woman, child and infant. Show no mercy to them, and make no treaties with them.

Thinking that God's bloody proclamations are merely predictions of future events would make it easier to bear, I imagine. But that's not the way it really reads in the bible.

God instructs his people very directly on how to massacre. Even IF it were a prediction, that makes it simply a fulfillment of God's Will. Try this one on for size...

The story to which I refer is found in 1st Samuel chapter 15 and takes place in the days of Saul, Israel's first king

In this story God has once again spoken to Samuel, only this time God tells him to instruct King Saul to exterminate a group of people known as the Amalekites. Beginning with verse 3 we read:

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants ..." 1st Samuel 15:3, NIV

Anxious to please God and Samuel, Saul assembled an army of 210,000 men and set about the grizzly task of doing God's bidding.

God's bidding very often involves the murder of children. That was most certainly the case here. For clearly, if we accept the Bible as a true book, then we must also be willing to accept that God has just ordered his people to murder a bunch of babies! "Children and infants" to use the Bible's exact words.

The Bible doesn't tell us exactly how many people died in this particular attack, but I would imagine the number would be quite staggering in light of the fact that Saul felt the need to assemble an army of nearly a quarter of a million to accomplish the task.

The casualties no doubt numbered in the hundreds of thousands. After all, how many women and children do you think one well-armed soldier can kill ... especially when he has god on his side?

Outrageous!

If you want forgiveness all you have to do is ASK FOR IT.

As far as murdering innocent children try telling that to the abortionists. I think you are confusing human corruption & blaming it on God. God can't be blamed for decisions HUMANS make. Get it now?

I understand what you are saying about Hell. I never liked being "scared" into God. It didn't work for me either but the word does say that His word does bring fear to the unbeliever.


I can tell you that He really does love you & it's His will that NONE perish but ALL should come to the saving knowledge of His grace. You are dwelling too much on the fear of God (an unhealthy fear at that), & not enough on His love & mercies. There is so much in the Bible about how God sees us that you are missing. Don't give up on God. Keep searching & he will reveal Himself to you & you WILL be shocked by it too. Like a joyful delight. :)

God bless....

Isn't the bible to not only teach of God's love and the story of creation, but also a didactic tool from which to get examples of good v. evil?

Why would want to ask forgiveness from someone who advocates murdering children?


Totally different thing entirely.
Dont bring 21st century practices into a ancient fairytale


read my previous quote.
Yes he can,as he gave specific instructions on how to slaughter the women and childrem


but why would he have to scare you into it.
Anyone who is threatened and cajoled into something and then blindly follows it, deserves to be scared.
Especially when you try and tell me he is forgiving.
If your children make a mess of your best china, you are angry with them, but in the end you forgive them. YOU DO NOT SLAUGHTER THEM!!!



Please do not try and preach to me, you are wasting your time

From Quikstepper---"My point EXACTLY. The carnal mind can't possibly understand. Don't blame God for slavery & those sort of things. That was left up to man's own imaginations."


"Slavery & those sorts of things?" The Bible DOES endorse slavery as my earlier post on this thread points out along with several bible references. The bible absolutely lays out the rules for owning slaves, the length of time a Hebrew slave can be owned versus and pagan slave.

Some of the best apologists for Christianity in this forum stayed clear away from the subject of slavery--because they know what the bible says.

Please, if you would, explain why we should not blame God for slavery when it is endorsed in the very word of God?

-Drew

Of course... I think people get God confused with their own corrupt nature. Since the beginning of time we have had to catch up to God's timing.

Ah...excuse me. For a minute there I thought I was talking to a reasonable person.

No need to carry any further conversation with you. I don't get into contentious arguments unless unaware of it. Hope you do something about your bitterness toward God...it's Him you have a problem with.

You mean, someone who doesnt question?



How can I be bitter against something that is contradictory and non-existant.

That is like saying Im bitter against small green men from the planet Zog.

No...the Bible does not endorse slavery. You are confusing man's corrupt imaginations with God..AGAIN!

I find it so ironic that some here would talk about killing "innocent" women & children & think nothing of the babies being killed by abortionists. What about the pagan rituals that sacrficed their children to false gods? If you can't see that that is the same thing as abortion then you are being a hypocrite.

No one thinks that's why God had them killed off they were so corrupted by their own lusts, their consciences seared. God knows who would come to Him & who would not & it's not up to any mere human to question the God of creation. God raised a nation who would follow Him so all the world would know who the true & LIVING God is. Yet you still want to bite the very hand that has protected you all your life. How ungrateful.

You are probly some of the same that curse anything good about our nation & its values. You can't see that it's your own corrupt thinking that is destructive. Now that's beyond sad...it's pathetic. So please don't question what God does because He does things FOR our good.

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)"

THe Bible I think.


and I find it hypocritical and two faced to endorse a god that wants the slaughter of innocent women and children.

You try to deflect the bible's inconsistancies and its alleged truths with things that are happening now.

Why not stick to the point?


But we are talking about your god and your bible.


So because they made mistakes these murdered people are not forgiven.
But god gave them their ability to be what they are,so how can he blame them for their own failings
So, instead of helping them back into a state where he could forgive them, he disposed of them.



Not questioning is how these slaughters occured. The people blindly followed the book and killed people in the name of your forgiving god

BTW...the more I read of some of the other posts & what people actually believe, the more I realize that this world can't hold a candle to my wonderful Father & Living God. Thanks for the reminder. :)

okay so it's lke this. There are things that are in this bible that are meant to be taken literally, but there are also things like parables and stuff like that. some of them have ten or more different meanings.

Some poeople think that there are lies mixed in with all this, but I will give a big example of why that isn't the case

If you think about someone like martin luther king jr, If someone were to say something that's not true about him in a book , people wouldn't have that thrown off the market.

This is GOD and JESUS CHTIST. These are are the 2 ultimates of everything and nothing. There is no way that that could or would happen.