If you believe it is, why does it guide you?

If you think its a load of rubbish, how do you know? Have you read it, if you have, then why did you read it?

I read it in the sixth grade because we had a beautiful Catholic Bible and well it was there.Except for the whole chapter of begats,I found it an interesting read but didnt see how it applied to me.My parents taught me morals and manners,life taught me compassion.I haven't read the bible or gone to church since i was 18 and I feel I have a good moral compass.I may f@#$k up a wee bit but that's just part of my charm.

Life is so complex . The bible is written to solve some ancient problems in some ancient times . Now , we have a new century with new problems although some of the bible problems are still here with us . It is full of mythology and contradictions .

As you know I was raised as a Christian. I confess that even as a Christian I had problems with biblical morality.

A lot of it is common sense, Like thou shalt not murder, rape, steal, etc. Those kinds of thinks are common sense as far as I’m concerned. I seriously pity anyone who needs a book to tell them that those kinds of things are wrong.

I also agreed with much of what Jesus taught. Don’t stone sinners, don’t judge others, turn the other cheek (meaning, to me, not seek revenge or hold grudges). I never took it to mean to not defend ourselves from genuine physical attacks. But it could certainly mean not to react physically to verbal abuse.

In any case, my biggest problem with the bible was mainly with the idea that sex is innately sinful. Especially something like masturbation. Why should that be a sin? What immoral about relieving sexual tension? I especially feel that way now that doctors and psychologists have discovered that it’s actually unhealthy to not be sexually relived.

What would that do for all the single people in the world? I think the bible was designed with a perfect world in mind where everyone will find a mate. It doesn’t seem to be very friendly toward single people, especially in terms of sexual health.

I could also never see the crime (or sin) in enjoying non-intercourse sex out of wedlock. And I’m not even talking about oral sex either. I’m simply talking about couples inducing orgasmic pleasure for each other. I was taught that this would be considered to be sex and would therefore be a sin. I suppose people could argue about that (and often do). Christ said not to think of sex at all if you aren’t married. But what did he mean by sex? It almost becomes a Bill Clinton trial.

In truth I feel that children should be taught how to give each other sexual pleasure without intercourse, or oral stimulus! And they should be taught that this is GREAT!

Then they could be taught that actual intercourse out of wedlock is a sin. I think we’d have a whole lot less problems with unwanted pregnancies if our society brought our children up to embrace non-intercourse sex with more openness. I think they’d have better orgasms too.

So the idea of fornication being a sin was always a huge problem for me. I just don’t see why that should be a problem. I always had a problem with the religion making out sex to be ‘dirty’, wrong, or sinful. I think that just caused a whole lot of psychological problems that only bring about bad things instead of good things.

So in that sense I think the biblical morals are a load of rubbish. Today, as an adult, and having met many intelligent and gay couples, I also don’t see any problem with homosexuality. I have no desire to partake in homosexual activates myself, but that decision isn’t based on morals, I’m just not sexually attracted to men nor sexually excited by men. So it’s just not something that interests me.

None the less, I can’t see why it would be a sin. I see no harm in it for people who are attracted to same-gender love. So that’s another area where I think the Bible is just a reflection of men’s bigotry rather than being and desire of any supreme creator.

I also felt that it is odd that God would be so male-chauvinistic in parts of the bible as well as supporting things like slavery. In a sense the bible is condoning slavery as being morally ok. I totally disagree with that.

I think the Golden Rule and common sense covers most everything. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And that includes being responsible for everything that results from your actions. In other words, you don’t get someone pregnant if you’re not prepared to be a loving, caring, attentive parent to the child. Because in that case you would not be doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.

So yes, in its entirety I think the bible is a load of rubbish when it comes to moral values. I think it is often used to support bigotry more than morality.

Well once you get through your own "rubbish" ways of thinking that clouds God & His goodness, you find God is that loving Father who welcomes you with opened arms.

It's really in total surrender when we feel truly free to live in His will for our lives. All power & authority has been given thru the Godhead bodily. Everything we need is right there for those who believe God "AND" OBEY Him.

Creator of Heaven & Earth...the entire universe in fact. Who God is & what He can do, His great love for us... His kindness & compassion toward us. What's not to love?

Does love mean to you all the pain and suffering around us in this world ?. Some of it is a human made such as wars ,...etc and other is nature made like earthquakes , sicknesses ...etc!.

While there are many good ideas put forth in the Bible I find it a deplorable moral guide even if one only deals with one issue: Slavery. The ready answer a number of Christians offer regarding the issue of slavery being not only allowed, but encouraged by way of instruction as how to treat slaves and how long they can be kept (Ex. 21:2-7) is that times were different then--that was just how things were "back then." What a horribly empty answer if only for one reason--the teachings about slavery are never corrected. The New Testament never casts an appropriate amount of shame on the practice, in fact the Bible never calls it wrong.

Lev. 25:44-46 gives a detailed account of how one should treat slaves brought in from Pagan nations--there were time limits on holding Hebrew slaves so far from limiting the practice, Leviticus actually expands the justification and rules for the practice.

Why? Why, if it is wrong today, was it OK back then? But more importantly, why do we feel it is wrong today? I trust there is no one in this forum who thinks that we should be allowed to own slaves in the year 2008. How is that not moral advancement? How is that not leaving some of the cruelest teachings of the bible behind in order to advance?

-Drew

Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Wonderful!

I believe it's a book of stories. All of which may or may not have morals attached to them.

Have I read it? Yup

Why did I read it? First because I had to and then it became more curiosity on how it would end

I much prefer reality to fantasy though.

Absolutely! And Jesus said that he didn’t come to change the laws! So why do Christians today feel that slavery should be outlawed when God himself said it’s ok and gave instructions on how to keep slaves?

Clearly, even the Christians themselves have come around to the realization that the biblical account of God is MORALLY WRONG.

Yet they still cling to it to support other issues.



But clearly we can’t use the Bible as a guide because, if we do, then people can use the Bible to condone slavery and claim that they are OBEYING God!

It just doesn’t work anymore. It’s inconsistent and can’t possible be the word of God. That’s the problem right there.

Christians just want to use the Bible to judge the behavior of others.

This is how the non-believers see it.

Q: Is the Bible the perfect source for morality?
A: NO.


Q: If you believe it is, why does it guide you?

A: N/A

Q: If you think its a load of rubbish, how do you know?

I don't think it is a load of rubbish ~ all information has some value, but I know its not the word of God, and it is not the infallible truth.

Q:Have you read it, if you have, then why did you read it?
Well, so many people were singing its praises, I thought I would give it the benefit of doubt.

JB

perfect?????? no

the book contain's truth's - but never are lies more convincing than when mixed in with truth's

yes i have read it more than a dozen times in the past front to back back in the 70's and 80's

I read it because at one time i was a practicing christian. and i give thank's that i asked god to show me the truth and he did - it was not in the bible.

i have to give it credit though for getting me where i am now in my belief's.

Was it god, or the devil, who said: "...I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the light of this sun."

Was it god, or the devil, who said: "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Is that the same God you are talking about?

I often ask myself HOW on earth do some people worship this God and call him good?

I wonder HOW on earth they continue to do this. It is the greatest puzzle of all.

This cannot possibly be God who has said these things, or done these things. This has to be an impostor. And yet people still worship this impostor.

Makes no sense.

exactly!

there are a few other "choice" utterings from the god of "love" all pertaining to death, disembowlment, murder of children and babies.

The old boy actually murdered all the women, men and children on the planet because of an anger fit!!
How is this the god of love?

Of course it makes no sense, but then the whole concept of god, religion and worshipping make no sense either

The Bible inherently invokes a notion of separate... necessarily so...

Excuse me but... HUH?

Inherently?
Invokes?
Necessarily so?

I'm sorry you lost me.

JB,

The Bible separates 'God' from creation as the creator with it's creation, with purpose, intent, and reason which is apart from the creation...


It also separates 'God' into three distinctly separate beings...


Further it separates the creation itself, hence the concept of 'God's' chosen people, etc.


For if one believes the descriptions contained within the text, then it necessarily invokes the acceptance that all of creation has a separate existence, apart from the creator.


Spinoza proved otherwise hundreds of years ago, although most do not understand this monotheistic concept concerning what must be if 'God' was first.


Regarding the OP, as long as people continue to think in terms of a separate existence there will be the distinction of us and them... instead of all as one.

A perfect moral compass must be one which measures in terms of equal to not separate from.

One without competition.

How did he do that?

We as thinking centers (soul) are connected to the one in the sense that we are all the same energy.

We, as thinking centers, are creators and we are separate from our creations, yet connected also.

Like leaves on the tree, each leaf is separate, but yet still part of the tree and still a separate individual leaf.

The concept and illusion of separation is necessary. We are both the observers and the observed.

Therefore it is very conceivable that one can be a creator and separate from its personal creation. Still that does not negate the connection that runs through all things making it one.

To insist that to consider separateness is faulty is to ignore the necessity of the condition.

JB