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| Topic: what do you HOPE heaven is like? | |
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I was just being silly and joking around. Be careful spreading around that lightheartedness Jeannie. Some people just aren't ready for that level of being yet. They prefer to wallow in anguish and misery. They’ll be no laughing in Heaven!!! Got it!!!   If you want to see a George Carlin Show you'll need to get some tickets to hell. 
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Be careful spreading around that lightheartedness Jeannie. Some people just aren't ready for that level of being yet. They prefer to wallow in anguish and misery. They’ll be no laughing in Heaven!!! Got it!!! If you want to see a George Carlin Show you'll need to get some tickets to hell. Why? George is still alive....I'm cornfused |
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I was just being silly and joking around. Be careful spreading around that lightheartedness Jeannie. Some people just aren't ready for that level of being yet. They prefer to wallow in anguish and misery. They’ll be no laughing in Heaven!!! Got it!!! If you want to see a George Carlin Show you'll need to get some tickets to hell. No laughing in Heaven?  I think I'll pass then, I'm going on up to level 27. Meet me there. They have a swing set and a water slide. Fun Fun! JB |
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Why? George is still alive....I'm cornfused I mean, after we get to heaven, if we want to see George Carlin we'd have to get tickets to hell if there's no laughing permitted in heaven. It's all hypothetical.  And probably not true. I can't imagine George Carlin playing in hell anyway. He'll probably have a heaven all his own, and people will just go there to visit and be entertained. 
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I think I'll pass then, I'm going on up to level 27. Meet me there. They have a swing set and a water slide. Fun Fun! JB I'm right behind you covering your butt with rose petals. I've got my citole, my flute, and a bottle of champagne! Sounds like heaven to me!
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I have seen a place that seemed like heaven to me. Although it may have been some other world. It looked like ancient Rome. The weather was perfect, there were no insects. Buildings were made of stone and marble and beautiful carvings. The people looked like the Greek Gods. Beautiful. There was sex and a lot of love with that. Beds were giant stuffed pillows. No blankets needed because the the temperature was perfect. People wore loose fitting gowns and togas. Food was fruits mostly. There was no jealousy but lots of love and sex. No anger or hatred, just love, joy pleasure. Waterfalls, pools, music,... wow what a nice vacation that was. It was a very vivid dream. I wish to go back there. JB stop by and pick me up on your way there |
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Where in the Bible does it say that he is NOT these things? It doesn't say that he's not these things. It's just that he does things that are not very nice. I list dozens of things, but for the sake of brevity I just list a few. The biblical God can't forgive sins unless there is a blood sacrifice. From my point of view that's neither nice, nor a wise way to teach people not to sin. Asking people to kill animals so that they can be forgiven of their sins is sending a very confused signal. That's a violent solution, thus suggesting that God is violent, or at least is appeased by the sight of violence, blood and guts. The biblical God instructed people to stone their unruly children rather than teaching them how to raise them properly. Again, this shows lack of wisdom, as well as lack of compassion and an interested in solving problem using violent methods. The biblical God waited until the entire planet was corrupt before he acted to drown everyone out with a great flood (including all the innocent animals that had nothing to do with it). I would think that an all-wise God would have known better. If he is so good at intervening in things why wait until the whole planet is corrupt? Why not just give heart attacks to the people who were spreading corruption in the first place? This list goes on and on, and doesn’t even stop with biblical times. If his intervening God can intervene to cure cancer then surely he could have intervene to give someone like Adolph Hitler a heart attack or some other impediment. People say that God can’t interact because God can’t affect the free will of men. But those same people will pray to God that they get hired for a job or whatever. So they expect God to intervene in the free will of the interviewer to get them a job, but they don’t expect God to intervene in important matters were the lives of thousands of innocent people are at stake. Like I say, the list goes on and on an on,… In fact it even begins way back before mankind was even created. The very fact that God’s angels were happy in his supposedly perfect heaven is the first sign that something isn’t right with this picture. If a third of God’s angles weren’t happy with his perfect heaven then why should I assume that I’d be happy there. Clearly there was something that those angels didn’t’ like about it. And finally, the idea that God is all-powerful, yet he weeps when someone is cast into hell, what does that say? Clearly he is powerless to do anything about it. A supposedly all-powerful God is said to be powerless in this situation. He also can’t look upon sin (which brings up the question of how he can know that anyone is sinning in the first place if he can’t look?). He also can’t forgive unless there is a blood sacrifice. For an all-powerful God there seems to be a lot of things he can’t do. The story is self-inconsistent. It claims that with God all things are possible, and then it goes on to state all these things that God can’t do! It’s a self-contradicting story. It just doesn’t hold water. You pose a very good question. This is my theory… Please indulge me for a moment to talk about mankind; I will get back to the angels. I like to use the analogy of God as the Father. God is my father very much like my earthly father. My father loves me very much. He raised me in his home and did the best he could to raise me well. He provided a safe place, with a roof over my head, toys to play with and nutritious food to sustain my body. He made sure all of my needs were taken care of and taught me what I needed to know to learn and grow. This could be considered a “heaven”. As a child I was expected to be nothing but a child and to play and grow as children do. However, even though my home was a haven for me to learn, grow and play, there were rules to follow. I had to treat my father with the respect that he deserved. I had to follow his rules and treat him with the respect that he deserves for providing me that haven. If I did not follow his rules there were consequences that I had to pay. Those consequences were not there because he loved me any less but BECAUSE he loved me and knew what was best for me. I didn’t always understand or like his rules but just because I didn’t like his rules, it didn’t make the home he provided me any less of a haven. I was not a perfect child by any means. I was quite rebellious in my teen years. Matter of fact I remember between the ages of 15 and 17 my whole mission in life was to split my parents up and get my father to move out of the house. Why? Because his rules sucked! I wanted to drink and smoke pot and screw my boyfriend and he was getting in my way. I did not see the wisdom in these rules because I was not an adult. I had not lived enough life to know why adults can drink and smoke and screw but I couldn’t. When my father came home and caught me buck naked in his bed drunk and stoned with my boyfriend, he threw me out of his house. That haven would no longer be my home as long as I chose to continue that behavior. I hope that we can agree that these rules were in my best interest at the age of 15. If my father had NOT had these rules, the home he would have provided me would NOT have been a haven. It would not have kept me safe from harm while I was growing and developing into an adult that could make her own informed decisions as an adult. Now let’s get back to the Angels and Lucifer. God is the Father. Heaven is his house. The same rules applied to them and now us. Lucifer was being a rebellious teenager and his gang of angels was in toe. Lucifer got too big for his britches and big daddy kicked his butt out. You might ask “If heaven was perfect why would they rebel?”…..Same reason I did. I thought I knew better than my father what was good for me. “If God created everything and is all powerful why didn’t he create perfect angels and children that would obey or intervene when they wanted to misbehave?”….If God would have wanted robots he WOULD have created them. Instead God wanted his angels (and his children) to REALLY love him. So he gave them free will to choose to love him or not. God didn’t intervene because he gave them free will not because he couldn’t. He wanted them to CHOOSE to be obedient out of love and respect for him and his wisdom and because “he told them so”. They chose not to….so there were consequences for their actions. “If God is all-knowing then wouldn’t he know the repercussions of his own actions? That Lucifer would rebel and he would have to throw him out of his house and then the battle lines would be drawn??”…Of course he did. God in his infinite wisdom created the bad right along with the good because how can we appreciate good if we don’t know what bad is. If we have never tasted bitter than how can we possibly know what sweet is? “Why would God put the bad out there and then punish them (us) for choosing it?”….They weren’t cast out the first time they chose to disobey. They were cast out because they refused to STOP disobeying. |
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You might ask “If heaven was perfect why would they rebel?”…..Same reason I did. I thought I knew better than my father what was good for me. Jesus says that nobody other than he has seen God's face. Angels are described as hiding their face in God's presence, because they cannot look upon it. But we are promised that the saved will be able to see God's face. My personal belief is that Satan tried to make it so that mankind would never see God's face since Angels cannot. |
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“Why would God put the bad out there and then punish them (us) for choosing it?”….They weren’t cast out the first time they chose to disobey. They were cast out because they refused to STOP disobeying. Well, there are many holes this ‘fatherly image’ story. You have to understand that I’ve gone over this many times during the course of my life. The story you’ve just given me is pretty much the standard story. It doesn’t wash for several reasons. First off, this story implies that God isn’t any better than a mortal father. He can’t raise children any better. I don’t buy that. In fact, there are earthly fathers who have done a wonder job raising their children. So this would actually imply that some mortal men make better fathers than God himself. Secondly, it doesn’t pan out with respect to humans because God doesn’t make himself known. He’s playing guessing games and hide & seek. Why should believe that the Bible has anything to do with God? I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that. The only way God could be a father to me would be to make himself present in my life and show me that he really exists. He can’t be playing hide & seek and guessing games and expecting me to guess which religion best describes him. In fact, if I have to guess I’d guess pantheism is the correct picture because it makes much more sense and describes God was being truly perfect. To guess that the Bible describes him would be like insulting him. The Bible talks about a God who can only forgive if blood sacrifices are given, and he asks people to stone their unruly children, etc, etc, etc. Not to meaning that he’s extremely male chauvinistic from the get go. So if I have to GUESS, then I’d guess pantheism is the best picture because pantheism is a very beautiful picture of a truly loving God. Why would I want to guess at a lesser picture? Thirdly, this story doesn’t remain constant. If all God wants from me is to be obedient then I already am as obedient as I can possibly be (considering that he’s playing hide & seek and refusing to give me any concrete instructions). Keep in mind that I can’t use the Bible because that would clearly be a GUESS on my part. I can’t be stabbing in the dark at ancient mythologies hoping to hit the right one. I see a myriad of problems, prejudices, and even hatred in the Bible. Why would I GUESS that book has anything to do with God? There’s no reason why God should be asking people to guess what is of him and what is not. That would be like shooting craps with people’s souls. This is where the fatherly image breaks down. What kind of a father would play hide & seek and not reveal himself to his children. You can’t expect me to assume that the Bible is the word of God. There is absolutely no reason why I should believe that. On the contrary there are a myriad of reasons why I shouldn't believe it. |
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Im just hoping all my 72 virgins are all human, female and under 50!
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Im just hoping all my 72 virgins are all human, female and under 50! Everybody always talks about the 72 female virgins...Allah's heaven also has 300 virgin boys for every man. |
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Im just hoping all my 72 virgins are all human, female and under 50! Everybody always talks about the 72 female virgins...Allah's heaven also has 300 virgin boys for every man. Yeah I know. Ill start on the female ones first, if you dont mind. You can have my 300. Present for ya! 
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Im just hoping all my 72 virgins are all human, female and under 50! Everybody always talks about the 72 female virgins...Allah's heaven also has 300 virgin boys for every man. Yeah I know. Ill start on the female ones first, if you dont mind. You can have my 300. Present for ya! No thanks, with my luck I'll be one of the 300 boys. I'm not good enough to live in Allah's heaven as a man. |
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No thanks, with my luck I'll be one of the 300 boys. I'm not good enough to live in Allah's heaven as a man. Ahh so there is a league table? Top of the list is Allah, then comes .. Common-or-Garden God,and at the bottom is Scientologists!!! |
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No thanks, with my luck I'll be one of the 300 boys. I'm not good enough to live in Allah's heaven as a man. Ahh so there is a league table? Top of the list is Allah, then comes .. Common-or-Garden God,and at the bottom is Scientologists!!! I say "Allah's heaven", because most people don't know what "Jannah" means. And I want to make the difference clear, because Jannah is nothing like the Heaven the God of Abraham has prepared for his flock. |
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I say "Allah's heaven", because most people don't know what "Jannah" means. And I want to make the difference clear, because Jannah is nothing like the Heaven the God of Abraham has prepared for his flock. So, its like a choice of Mom's house. At your place they have bran muffins, and at Mohammed's mom's house they have blueberry ones. At least we are agreed that scientifically, genetically modified ones at Tom Cruise's house are not gonna be nice! So, say I am wrong, and there is a God, and I get lumbered with yours, Im not gonna be a happy person, am I? Knowing down the street there is a sex, drugs and rock n roll party going on at the Islam place. Not that I believe Mohd's view either ... I mean 72 virgins? What a nightmare! Experience, thats where its at! |
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I say "Allah's heaven", because most people don't know what "Jannah" means. And I want to make the difference clear, because Jannah is nothing like the Heaven the God of Abraham has prepared for his flock. So, its like a choice of Mom's house. At your place they have bran muffins, and at Mohammed's mom's house they have blueberry ones. At least we are agreed that scientifically, genetically modified ones at Tom Cruise's house are not gonna be nice! So, say I am wrong, and there is a God, and I get lumbered with yours, Im not gonna be a happy person, am I? Knowing down the street there is a sex, drugs and rock n roll party going on at the Islam place. Not that I believe Mohd's view either ... I mean 72 virgins? What a nightmare! Experience, thats where its at! Out of my desire to not offend, I choose to not deny another's beliefs, only affirm mine. I am not saying that Jannah is real, but I am not saying it's not either. That's a decision that I leave up to others. I will say that I believe Heaven is real and leave it at that. |
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heaven.....where does this idea come from.....seems even before the bible mankind has been fascinated with these ideas of an afterlife.....
do not COMMON thoughts of mankind about these things say a lot about the truth............ how could sooooooooo many born have thoughts of afterlife and heaven if there were none...... what if heaven is total utpoia, and all power to create is available, no physical strife is needed to create, and pain is not needed there as already learned here, and is a place where all live in harmony......heaven containing all that is GOOD to us here but minus ALL the bad, and all "good" there is in a much greater measure than here.......so to be able to handle it we first needed the limited version we have here....... well than certainlly one would HAVE to see, taste, smell, touch, and feel all that is HERE to gain a gratitude, an understanding of what is there, developing a scope of wisdom that could come no other way than SEEING things here just exactely as they are, the good and the bad....... but every student becomes the teacher upon graduation....... certainally it would have to be as many wish, and all religions just each have a piece, and if all were put together, like a giant humankind puzzle, then the whole picture could be grasped..... existence on earth is like trial software......the mind does not contain the whole program like heaven, lol |
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I agree with David's view of heaven.
There are many different persuasions in it. Where Jesus is, I will be. What He holds for me is that which I shall receive. How I fit into that is entirely left up to Him as far as I am concerned. But many disallow that Jesus is at all welcome in their view of God's heaven. Let alone that Jesus has any authority over any, for that matter. Is Jesus disallowed? Is Jesus not also one of God's own? Is Jesus not also condemned for being partial and judgemental in the minds of all that reject his words even only in part? What would this place called heaven be without Jesus' presence? Tolerance and diversity? mutual respect and dignity? Can human will imagine Jesus out of existence and block his right to believe as He does and find rest for his soul? Are Jesus' committments not honorable? Are Jesus' words to fall to the ground for want of bitterness? Is Jesus to be denied for his faith? Is Jesus rejected because his words are cross to any that refuse him? Is Jesus a torment unworthy of eternity? my point? well................ |
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personally i DONT have to guess I know and that is what faith is about,believeing with out seeing,touching excetra..All the questions and concerns that we as humans deem important now will fly away and be replaced with WOW..sheer amazement,over powering joy ,love and peace..worry about making your time here the best it can be..heaven will be waiting for you when its your time
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