Hello everybody! Please forgive me. I haven’t read this whole thread but I’m going to throw my 2 cents in anyway because I find the question interesting and don’t have time to catch up right now because I am at work. I will catch up if I get some free time.

I believe that science and spirituality go hand in hand. What one lacks the other has. I will use the Creation story as an example. There are several scientific theories out there that can explain how the universe got here. Evolution and the Big Bang are 2 of them. I do not believe that either of these theories conflict with how I (personally) interpret the Bible. The Creation story says that God created everything in six days and rested on the seventh. In my opinion, just because the Bible says seven days, doesn’t necessarily mean that time was measured using the same measurement system that we use today. What is one day to God could very well be millions of years to us. However, none of these theories are perfect and have missing links. I believe that missing link is God. Therefore, I believe that science explains the Creation story. Another thing to take into consideration when reading and interpreting the Bible is perspective and audience. When reading the Bible you need to know who is writing, who they are writing to and for what purpose and what they intend to say over literal interpretation. There are as many viewpoints on how the Bible should be read as there are readers of the Bible. Some would say to throw common sense out the window and read the Bible word for word and interpret it literally. I think this is asking for trouble. For example the story of the Ark. Many have issues with this because the “whole earth” was flooded by heavy rains for 40 days and 40 nights. Science says that the area that the Ark story does have evidence did suffer from a flood thousands of years ago. (Science backing up the Bible). I ask…Did it really rain for 40 days and 40 nights or is this a time measurement issue again? Did the WHOLE earth flood or just the area Noah lived? Keep in mind that if you can only travel by camel and a 200 mile radius around you floods, that is your WHOLE world. Does it make the story wrong? No. It is just a matter of perspective.

The Bible and Science both make sense to me. I have no trouble with this but then again I am a “designer” Christian. When I study the Bible, I take to heart what makes sense to me, pray on what doesn’t and if it never makes sense…I never claimed to be a scholar. Let them figure it out. My faith remains the same.

But do you believe that that creator went as far as to actaully CREATING the differant "versions" of him? The differant religions, creeds and non-religions and creeds.

Is it possible that all of us who believe there is a God are correct regardless of the title or doctrines WE as humans choose to apply to him are correct?

The following assumes that we can agree that there is a God and that God created the universe. I recognize everyone has a different view point on the gender, if any, of the creator. I will use the male gender only to simplify things.

If God created all of us and the entire universe, He is a very creative fellow. Far more creative than any of us can possibly imagine. Science is discovering new things about this universe we live in everyday. I would imagine that the creator would be pretty dog gone smart too. He has shown demonstrated that by what he has created. I would further suppose that he knows that this universe would be a pretty boring place if he colored the palette with only one color, personality, language, view point and creed. He created us all differently. He knows what we would need to lead a happy fulfilling life. He knows that some of us will need to cling to a “savior” and others will not. He knows that some will marvel at the power of the “Sun God” while others will just marvel at the sun.

Is it POSSIBLE that as he was and is creating the universe that he as also created and continues to plant the seeds of the creeds we as humans cling to in order to make sense of this world and life we live? And that it doesn’t matter to which creed you cling to because they are ALL him?

Is it POSSIBLE that HE created these different religion and creeds intentionally to add diversity and make life more interesting?

Is it POSSIBLE that we as humans underestimate the power of our creator and want to put Him in a box so that WE can be right and others can be wrong?

I don't keep all my angels. Even though I collect them and they only serve as a reminder to me, I don't consider them mine to keep. I display all of my angels. When someone visits, if they are particularly fond on one of my angels, I will give it to them and silently pray that God will grant them a miracle like he did me. So, if you are giving it to me, please disply your artwork proudly when you get to your new home (it should be displayed proudly anyway) and if someone marvals over it, please give it to them because that is what I would do if I had it. In the mean time, I would LOVE to see a picture of it!!

Thank you BB. Much respect right back at ya!

Time for me to hit the sack. Night all!

Everyone has their weakness and faults. I never claimed to be perfect. If it wasn't for having Jesus in my heart I would be the perfect pagan.

Yeah it is. That day and the series of events that followed is what convinced me that there IS a God. He proved himself to me. He didn't have to but he did. I may not know the Bible like other Christians, I may not be able to argue the samantics and the logic and give someone "proof" that God exsists but I know that he does. He proved himself to ME. I was given a gift. I don't know why. I certainly didn't DESERVE it. I don't blame people for not believing. I wouldn't believe either if I hadn't experienced it myself. The God that I believe in is FAR more loving and compasionate that people give him credit for. I HATED him and was very vocal about it. Guess he knew how to shut me up.

But I want to clearify something. I don't believe in "religion". I think they ALL have it wrong and are in for a rude awakening when they see Heaven is FULL. Yes I say that I am a "Christian" because I believe that Jesus is my savior. BUT I use that term very loosly because MY experience of God is very differant than the average Christian. For the most part, "Faith" didn't get me where I am today. God proved himself to me and based on THAT I have "Faith".

AMEN!!!!!

My house is full of angels. Angel pictures, figurines and crystal sun catchers. I do not worship them. They are there as a simple reminder to me of a times were really tough and God answered my prayer. Wouldn't consider myself to have been a Christian at the time but I was hoping there was a God when I sent out a deperate prayer. I was alone at my Aunt's house and had been leafing through a coffee table book that had stories about how angels intervined in peoples lives to save them from danger. As I read the stories I scoffed at them and thought these people were delusional. I layed down on the couch and closed my eyes and sent out a VERY sarcastic and angry prayer to God. I told him that I was angry with him for allowing me to be in the position that I was in at the time. I proceeded to use some very colorful language with him and told him that it would take 10,000 of his precious "angels" to get me out of the mess I was in and challenge him to go ahead and send them if He was so MIGHTY. I instantly heard what sounded like a million birds flying around the room, I could feel the wind from their wings. It scared the crap out of me. I shot my eyes open and the sound disappeared but the drapes and papers on the counter were still fluttering as though a strong breeze had gone through the place and abruptly stopped. About that time the phone rang and I ran to catch it but missed the call. My heart was pounding and I am pretty sure I peed my pants. My 4 year old son called from the bedroom he was napping in and said "Don't worry mom, that was just God calling to tell you he heard your prayer." I heard his voice as though it he was standing right next to me. I went trembling to his room to find him fast asleep. Now it is entirely possible that I was dilussional even though I was not drinking or taking drugs at the time. BUT I did get through my rough time, through a series of very "lucky coincedences".

I could be wrong. Maybe it was all a dream and everything that happened was just dumb luck but I like to think that God rose to my challenge and helped me regardless of what I thought about him at the time and regardless of the very disrespectful way I chose to ask for his help. So as a reminder, I have promised myself I am going to collect angels until I have all 10,000 that I believe God sent me. They are there to remind me that all of us in this world need help and even though we aren't alway nice about how we ask, we still need it. A starving tiger that has been backed into a corner is not about to "be nice" if you are standing in front of it holding a tbone but you should give it to him anyway.

I also were a cross necklace to remind me of the day that I got "saved". That is another pretty emotional story for me. I will save that one for another time. One is enough for one night.

EXCELLENT question!! This is the heart of the issue. This is where the battle lines get drawn. Is there or is there not a God?

If you don't know that there is a God, then the rest doesn't matter.

If you KNOW that there is a God, the rest is just arguing samantics.

Light the peace pipe my wonderful native friend. I will pour the fire water. Brownies are in the oven. I know what my "Christian" brothers and sisters do in the name of "Christianity" and it sickens me. More than that, I am SURE it sickens my Father. Maybe I read the Bible waaaay wrong but I didn't read any justification killing your people nor attempting to plummel people to death with their judgements.



You may think of the Bible as just a book. That's ok. Have you read an American History book lately? Wanna talk about white man's story, half of what is in there are pretty tall tails. Most of what the white man did to the native americans is missing or not represented to be as gruesome as it actually was. Hmmm? Wonder why?




Yes these are my personal views. I speak for MYSELF and not the Christian body as a whole. Even though I wish I could.

This world would be a much happier place if everyone just thought the way that I do.

Thank you for the wolf protection. I might need it.

Oh My Tribo...This should be an interesting thread you devil.

As I told you before. You are more than welcome to come to my house and burn all my bibles. (I'll get the coffe going, we would have a lot to talk about while you are getting your flame thrower ready )



Even though my education in what I now believe started from the teachings in the Bible, you could take my Bible away today and my faith would remain the same. I can't unlearn what I already learned. Damage already done. I've been brain washed and have become completely sold out. I can learn more to add to what I already know.



Yes that is true. We all have to learn someplace. I learned from home and church. I was fortunate to have been raised in a Christian home. Christianity is what I was TAUGHT to believe. As a teenager, I HATED it so as soon as I was out of the house, I renounced Chriatianity. Eventually, once I pulled my nose out of the Bible, I found my way back. (Difficult to explain we will talk about it when you come over for coffee with your flame thrower)



No. Even though I DO believe that the Bible is the word of God. I do not believe you have to have trust and faith that the Bible is "the word of God" it just helps in most cases. I personally belive that you can read the Bible, consider them just stories but if you understand what is being taught and you take it to heart, I believe that people are capable of making the leap of faith that their is a God out there that does love and care for you and if you choose to live your life the way the Bible teaches, you will have a better life hear on earth. The rest...going to heaven...BONUS!



In order to have the belief system that I have today...yes I needed the Bible or someone who read the Bible to get me here. BUT now that I have already read the book, I don't have to have a physical copy on my coffee table for my faith to stand.

Now time to get really radical. I'm sure I'm gonna get kicked out the the Christian club now...

I don't think the Bible matters at all.

I read these threads and I see over and over again the lines being drawn in the sand. Christian / Non-Christian And never the twain shall meet. I think that is soooo foolish. I personally don't care what "God" you believe in or worship. It doesn't matter to me in the least because I am CONVINCED that there is only ONE GOD and if you wanna call him Budda, I AM, Alla or Zeus, I don't think it matters a hill of beans to Him either. I just think that he would like for you to call him. I think he would really like it if you recognized what he has done for you just like any other father. BUT just like any other father...if you don't...it doesn't matter cause he will love you anyway. I will even go a step further. Even though I am CONVINCED that there is only one God and the Biblical God is it but you were to prove me wrong and show me that that could not be possible that the only God that exists is Alla and Jesus was just a profit...or worse yet...never existed. OK...I'm wrong. I don't fear being wrong about what his name is or if Jesus actually did or did not die on that Cross. I know that I know that I know... GOD DOES EXIST and he LOVES ME. Anything above and beyond that is icing on the cake. It breaks my heart to heart non-Christians and Christians alike talk about my God as this big bully that is going to throw everyone to the pits of Hell because they don't "believe". I don't see God that way at all. He doesn't need anyone to believe in Him. HE KNOWS who he is. I don't think anyone needs to find Jesus...JESUS isn't LOST. There is only ONE God. That God loves ALL his children and that includes those who do not call themselves "Christian".


Peace and Love

ok guys...time for me to get ready for my date. With any amount of "luck" it won't be a celibate one.

Abra just answered that.

You are right!! There are a lot on NON-celibate perverts. Don't even get me started there. Right now we are only talking about celibacy and it's tendancy, in my opinion, to cause perversion.

God may not HAVE to intervine....but it sure would HELP!


Self-control....I admit...I don't have much of it.

God is gonna strike me down for this but....

Where two or more are gathered....

I'm sorry all my fellow Christian brothers and sisters...I just couldn't help myself!

I am not going to say that they are perverts. In my opinion, God must have intervined. I DO believe that it is an honorable way to live BUT most people cannot. Celebacy in MOST people leads to perversion. There are several examples of that with priests in the RCC.

Are you celebate?

Narcotics do not satisfy a basic need.

If God were to take away or satisfy that need, then yes I can. However, he has not taken away the need nor has he provided me a husband. I know that I am about to sin tonight and will have to attone for it later. Unless God intervines....Pray for me.