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| Topic: what do you HOPE heaven is like? | |
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Let's step outside the box a little and ponder this....what if you got to heaven only to discover that the biblical God DOES exist and you were wrong about him....he actually IS all-powerful AND nicer than you? Then I would know that the Bible was a forgery because the God depicted in those stories is neither all-powerful nor nicer than me. We simply can’t have God being different from what the book claims and simultaneously claim that it’s the same God, now can we? In other words, it wouldn’t be a matter of me being wrong about him, it would be a matter of the Bible being wrong about him. The bottom line is that you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either the biblical stories are true, in which case God is not all-powerful, all-wise, all-loving and nicer than me. Or, if the biblical picture of God is true, then he can’t be all-powerful, all-wise, all-loving and nicer than me. It’s not about whether or not I’m right or wrong. It’s about whether or not the biblical picture is right or wrong. All I’m saying is that if God turns out to be as described in the Bible then I will be extremely disappointed. And if he isn't, well then, clearly that story wasn’t the true picture of God. You just can’t have the cake and eat it too. Something’s got to give. Either God is like the Bible says, or he’s not. Both cannot be simultaneously true.  Interesting perspective. Maybe this is just a matter of Bible interpretation....in my experience of reading the Bible, the God is ALL powerful, ALL knowing, ALL loving AND nicer than anyone I have ever met here on earth. Now I haven't met you so it is very possible that you are nicer than anyone I have met but from what I have read of God, if you are nicer than He is...that would be AMAZING. Then again maybe you have done more Bible reading than I have. Where in the Bible does it say that he is NOT these things? |
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Where in the Bible does it say that he is NOT these things? It doesn't say that he's not these things. It's just that he does things that are not very nice. I list dozens of things, but for the sake of brevity I just list a few. The biblical God can't forgive sins unless there is a blood sacrifice. From my point of view that's neither nice, nor a wise way to teach people not to sin. Asking people to kill animals so that they can be forgiven of their sins is sending a very confused signal. That's a violent solution, thus suggesting that God is violent, or at least is appeased by the sight of violence, blood and guts. The biblical God instructed people to stone their unruly children rather than teaching them how to raise them properly. Again, this shows lack of wisdom, as well as lack of compassion and an interested in solving problem using violent methods. The biblical God waited until the entire planet was corrupt before he acted to drown everyone out with a great flood (including all the innocent animals that had nothing to do with it). I would think that an all-wise God would have known better. If he is so good at intervening in things why wait until the whole planet is corrupt? Why not just give heart attacks to the people who were spreading corruption in the first place? This list goes on and on, and doesn’t even stop with biblical times. If his intervening God can intervene to cure cancer then surely he could have intervene to give someone like Adolph Hitler a heart attack or some other impediment. People say that God can’t interact because God can’t affect the free will of men. But those same people will pray to God that they get hired for a job or whatever. So they expect God to intervene in the free will of the interviewer to get them a job, but they don’t expect God to intervene in important matters were the lives of thousands of innocent people are at stake. Like I say, the list goes on and on an on,… In fact it even begins way back before mankind was even created. The very fact that God’s angels were happy in his supposedly perfect heaven is the first sign that something isn’t right with this picture. If a third of God’s angles weren’t happy with his perfect heaven then why should I assume that I’d be happy there. Clearly there was something that those angels didn’t’ like about it. And finally, the idea that God is all-powerful, yet he weeps when someone is cast into hell, what does that say? Clearly he is powerless to do anything about it. A supposedly all-powerful God is said to be powerless in this situation. He also can’t look upon sin (which brings up the question of how he can know that anyone is sinning in the first place if he can’t look?). He also can’t forgive unless there is a blood sacrifice. For an all-powerful God there seems to be a lot of things he can’t do. The story is self-inconsistent. It claims that with God all things are possible, and then it goes on to state all these things that God can’t do! It’s a self-contradicting story. It just doesn’t hold water. |
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Let's step outside the box a little and ponder this....what if you got to heaven only to discover that the biblical God DOES exist and you were wrong about him....he actually IS all-powerful AND nicer than you? no worries, Im jewish...got a pass to enter. 
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I just hope we can date there...God knows I'm not getting it done down here.
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Where in the Bible does it say that he is NOT these things? It doesn't say that he's not these things. It's just that he does things that are not very nice. I list dozens of things, but for the sake of brevity I just list a few. The biblical God can't forgive sins unless there is a blood sacrifice. From my point of view that's neither nice, nor a wise way to teach people not to sin. Asking people to kill animals so that they can be forgiven of their sins is sending a very confused signal. That's a violent solution, thus suggesting that God is violent, or at least is appeased by the sight of violence, blood and guts. The biblical God instructed people to stone their unruly children rather than teaching them how to raise them properly. Again, this shows lack of wisdom, as well as lack of compassion and an interested in solving problem using violent methods. The biblical God waited until the entire planet was corrupt before he acted to drown everyone out with a great flood (including all the innocent animals that had nothing to do with it). I would think that an all-wise God would have known better. If he is so good at intervening in things why wait until the whole planet is corrupt? Why not just give heart attacks to the people who were spreading corruption in the first place? This list goes on and on, and doesn’t even stop with biblical times. If his intervening God can intervene to cure cancer then surely he could have intervene to give someone like Adolph Hitler a heart attack or some other impediment. People say that God can’t interact because God can’t affect the free will of men. But those same people will pray to God that they get hired for a job or whatever. So they expect God to intervene in the free will of the interviewer to get them a job, but they don’t expect God to intervene in important matters were the lives of thousands of innocent people are at stake. Like I say, the list goes on and on an on,… In fact it even begins way back before mankind was even created. The very fact that God’s angels were happy in his supposedly perfect heaven is the first sign that something isn’t right with this picture. If a third of God’s angles weren’t happy with his perfect heaven then why should I assume that I’d be happy there. Clearly there was something that those angels didn’t’ like about it. And finally, the idea that God is all-powerful, yet he weeps when someone is cast into hell, what does that say? Clearly he is powerless to do anything about it. A supposedly all-powerful God is said to be powerless in this situation. He also can’t look upon sin (which brings up the question of how he can know that anyone is sinning in the first place if he can’t look?). He also can’t forgive unless there is a blood sacrifice. For an all-powerful God there seems to be a lot of things he can’t do. The story is self-inconsistent. It claims that with God all things are possible, and then it goes on to state all these things that God can’t do! It’s a self-contradicting story. It just doesn’t hold water. If I took the time to research and explain how everything you just said could be viewed completely differently, would it make any difference in your opinion of God? If so, just say the worked and I will take the time to write up a rebuttal and get back to you because it will take a little time. If not...I will save my time and leave you with this. You have a good argument. I respect your opinion, however....completely disagree. |
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I know Heaven will be like 'Pink Flamingos'
Only I'LL get to be Divine 
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If I took the time to research and explain how everything you just said could be viewed completely differently, would it make any difference in your opinion of God? If so, just say the worked and I will take the time to write up a rebuttal and get back to you because it will take a little time. If not...I will save my time and leave you with this. You have a good argument. I respect your opinion, however....completely disagree. If you really want to start, start with just God and the angles. Forget about mankind altogether. Just explain to me why the angles weren’t happy with God’s perfect heaven? The explanation that is most often given is that Lucifer was hungry for power and wanted to take over God’s position. But already you’ve got a problem there. Why would Lucifer have been unhappy with a perfect heaven in the first place? And why would a full third of God’s angels be willing to back him up? You’d have to explain the fall of the angels before you even bother trying to get into God’s relationship with men. To claim that it’s just because angles had ‘free will’ is no explanation. That still doesn’t answer the question of why they were unhappy in a perfect heaven to begin with? If angels were unhappy with the biblical God’s perfect heaven, then why should I think that I’d be happy there? If you can’t explain why angles were unhappy with God’s perfect heaven in the first place, then what’s the point in even bothering to move on from there? The story would already be dead in the water before it even gets off the ground. Also, let’s assume that you come up with a reason why the angels were unhappy in a perfect heaven. Then you’d have to explain why it is that an all-wise, all-loving, all-powerful God couldn’t just fix the problem so that everyone was happy. The fact that he had to cast those angles into a hell and become their enemy implies that he is not all-wise, all-loving, all-powerful, or all-perfect. Seems to me that something’s got to give. I don’t see how any explanations are going to preserve the idea of God being all-wise, all-loving, all-powerful, and all-perfect. Clearly something broke down in the very early going and the idea that this was required for Free Will doesn’t hold water. Pantheism is a picture of a God who also gave everyone Free Will yet there is no need to have fallen angles and demons who are at war with God in that picture. So the need to preserve Free Will does not explain it. What was it that the angles didn’t like about God’s perfect heaven? And why couldn’t God correct the problem using wisdom and love? We don't even need to talk about mankind at all. |
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Heaven will be a functional family. Everyone will be happy to see one another. All grudges will be forgotten. It will be a drama free family reunion that lasts all eternity. Will there be food? I hope so. Will there be music? I believe so. Will there be books? Why not? I believe that every good natural talent will find an outlet in heaven. I think this is the nicest post I have ever seen from you spider. I would like to go there... but I definitely need books! |
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I just hope we can date there...God knows I'm not getting it done down here.  Good luck! |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:48 PM
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Heaven will be a functional family. Everyone will be happy to see one another. All grudges will be forgotten. It will be a drama free family reunion that lasts all eternity. Will there be food? I hope so. Will there be music? I believe so. Will there be books? Why not? I believe that every good natural talent will find an outlet in heaven. With no "drama" the books would have to be about the good old days when we all lived on earth and had so much fun and adventure killing each other... If there is food will there be toilets? If there are toilets will there be plumbers or will God do the plumbing? If all grudges will be forgotten will our memories be removed? What if a person's talent is having sex and there is no sex in heaven? Will we be permitted to leave heaven and to see the rest of the Universe and worlds or will we be kept prisoners? inquiring minds want to know. JB |
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:51 PM
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Heaven will be a functional family. Everyone will be happy to see one another. All grudges will be forgotten. It will be a drama free family reunion that lasts all eternity. Will there be food? I hope so. Will there be music? I believe so. Will there be books? Why not? I believe that every good natural talent will find an outlet in heaven. With no "drama" the books would have to be about the good old days when we all lived on earth and had so much fun and adventure killing each other... If there is food will there be toilets? If there are toilets will there be plumbers or will God do the plumbing? If all grudges will be forgotten will our memories be removed? What if a person's talent is having sex and there is no sex in heaven? Will we be permitted to leave heaven and to see the rest of the Universe and worlds or will we be kept prisoners? inquiring minds want to know. JB There is a way to ask those questions respectfully, but you chose the low road. Ask again, nicely and respectfully and I will answer. |
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Music ,peace and gorgeous ladies willing to have sex !.
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I have seen a place that seemed like heaven to me.
Although it may have been some other world. It looked like ancient Rome. The weather was perfect, there were no insects. Buildings were made of stone and marble and beautiful carvings. The people looked like the Greek Gods. Beautiful. There was sex and a lot of love with that. Beds were giant stuffed pillows. No blankets needed because the the temperature was perfect. People wore loose fitting gowns and togas. Food was fruits mostly. There was no jealousy but lots of love and sex. No anger or hatred, just love, joy pleasure. Waterfalls, pools, music,... wow what a nice vacation that was. It was a very vivid dream. I wish to go back there. JB |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 05/19/08 05:57 PM
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Heaven will be a functional family. Everyone will be happy to see one another. All grudges will be forgotten. It will be a drama free family reunion that lasts all eternity. Will there be food? I hope so. Will there be music? I believe so. Will there be books? Why not? I believe that every good natural talent will find an outlet in heaven. With no "drama" the books would have to be about the good old days when we all lived on earth and had so much fun and adventure killing each other... If there is food will there be toilets? If there are toilets will there be plumbers or will God do the plumbing? If all grudges will be forgotten will our memories be removed? What if a person's talent is having sex and there is no sex in heaven? Will we be permitted to leave heaven and to see the rest of the Universe and worlds or will we be kept prisoners? inquiring minds want to know. JB There is a way to ask those questions respectfully, but you chose the low road. Ask again, nicely and respectfully and I will answer. That is your opinion. I think it was humorous. Stop telling me how to express myself. If you have no sense of humor I can't help it. Lighten up and relax. JB |
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That is your opinion. I think it was humorous. Stop telling me how to express myself. If you have no sense of humor I can't help it. Lighten up and relax. JB Wow, nice Strawman fallacy. I wasn't telling you how to express yourself, I was telling you how to communicate with me if you want me to respond. |
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Flexible in its policy regarding admittance. Good one! I don't think you have to worry about that. I heard a rumor that God is all-loving. Can't have an all-loving God playing favorites when he throws a party. That wouldn't be nice. |
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That is your opinion. I think it was humorous. Stop telling me how to express myself. If you have no sense of humor I can't help it. Lighten up and relax. JB Wow, nice Strawman fallacy. I wasn't telling you how to express yourself, I was telling you how to communicate with me if you want me to respond. Okay. (I was not really expecting any response.) I was just being silly and joking around. I was not asking serious questions. You don't have to respond. From now on do you want me to enclose my jokes with brackets so you will know I am not being serious? <Joke> Place Joke here </joke> |
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Okay. (I was not really expecting any response.) I was just being silly and joking around. I was not asking serious questions. You don't have to respond. From now on do you want me to enclose my jokes with brackets so you will know I am not being serious? <Joke> Place Joke here </joke> No, I'll just ignore your offensive posts and assume they are weak attempts at humor. |
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There is a way to ask those questions respectfully, but you chose the low road. Ask again, nicely and respectfully and I will answer. Like as if you would know the answers. 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Mon 05/19/08 06:10 PM
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Okay. (I was not really expecting any response.) I was just being silly and joking around. I was not asking serious questions. You don't have to respond. From now on do you want me to enclose my jokes with brackets so you will know I am not being serious? <Joke> Place Joke here </joke> No, I'll just ignore your offensive posts and assume they are weak attempts at humor. My posts are NOT OFFENSIVE. You are just waaaay too serious and have no play or humor in your body. Lighten up Spider. If you are offended by that, you may have a problem. I guess I can't joke with you anymore. so be it. JB |
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