I hope the above exchange is what I WONT find in heaven....

The very idea that heaven would need an authoritarian flies in the very face of heaven in the first place.

That would suggest that there are people in heaven who would like to do things that are considered to be improper in heaven but they are only refraining themselves in fear of retribution.

A heaven that is based on an authoritarian rule wouldn’t be any different from earth. A heaven that is governed by an authoritarian makes no sense.

I have dreamed of being in heaven. And in my dreams there is absolutely no need for any authoritarian. God is present in heaven, but not as an authoritarian. There simply isn’t any need for an authoritarian. It’s just not a concept in heaven because there is no such thing as an unruly spirit.

All spirits are perfectly egalitarian. There is nothing any spirit has that any other spirit doesn’t have. There is simply no motivation for greed, power, or lust of any kind. Also, it’s simply impossible for any spirit to harm another spirit. It simply isn’t possible. It’s a non-concept. Spirits could harm each other if they wanted to. There’s just no way to do it. No spirit can force any other spirit to do anything it doesn’t want to do.

There simply isn’t any need to have an authoritarian system in heaven. The whole idea is completely extraneous.

The idea that we are going to go to a heaven and live under the ‘rule’ of a judgmental God is a totally incorrect idea. Such an eternal life would hardly be a heaven. No matter how benevolent the God is said to be it would still be a fascist empire where all the occupants are living under tyranny. If anyone disagreed with any of God’s rules, that would smolder inside of them until it finally culminated into a rebellious act.

The only way that could possibly work is if everyone who goes to heaven is in complete agreement with God’s laws. But if that’s the case, then the whole idea of a need for an authoritarian rule falls apart once again. There can’t be anyone in heaven who disagrees with God on any topic no matter how small. Everyone who is in heaven must be in perfect agreement with God on every issue. Not because of threat of reappraisal should they disagree, but simple because truly are in total agreement. And then the need for an authoritarian rule falls away.

Well, in my dreams, that’s precisely the way heaven actually is. As soon as you become spirit you instantly realize that you have everything you could possible want. Nothing is taboo, and there is nothing you can do to harm anyone anyway. You can’t kill or rape someone in heaven. Those things just aren’t possible. You can’t obtain power over other spirits in heaven. That’s just not possible. In fact, you have no ego in heaven. All spirits know your every thought, just as you know theirs. You can’t even have a “secret” plot if you wanted one because it’s impossible to keep secrets in heaven. All spirits know the thoughts of all other spirits. There is no privacy in heaven. But there is no need for any privacy because all thoughts belong to God. Spirits don’t even own thoughts. They simply enjoy them.

But heaven isn’t the end state. In an eternal existence there can be no end state. If there were an end state that end state would inevitably become boring. Heaven is like an infinite library containing an infinity of books. Each book represents a possibly incarnation into a physical world. A physical fantasy. All the spirits on earth are interacting in the book (or incarnation) called “Earth”. They have chosen to be here and experience this incarnation.

When this incarnation is over, they will return to the spirit world (heaven if you want to call it that), and choose another incarnation to enjoy. And that’s the way it goes. Forever and ever. Incarnation after incarnation after incarnation. There is no “end goal”. The process is infinite. The goal is the experience of the incarnations. The experience of incarnations is what it’s all about. There is nothing to achieve beyond that.

There is no final judgment and sentencing of spirits for all of eternity. To think that a spirit would be judged and sentence for all of eternity based on an almost instantaneous fleeting incarnation is utterly absurd. The foundational principles of the biblical story are based on utter ignorance of the very concept of eternity. The idea that spirits come into existence at birth, live a short life on earth, and are then sentenced to either eternal damnation or eternal ecstasy is utterly absurd. How anyone can possibly believe such an absurd notion as that is totally beyond me. Any creator that had set up such a limited existence as that would be far from all-wise or all-powerful. And then it turns it into a guessing game of hide & seek on top of that??? And then it requires that people not only be good, but that they also believe that Mediterranean folklore actually came from God???

The whole biblical concept is so totally in opposition to what a genuinely all-wise, all-powerful, all-loving creator would be like that it can’t possibly be true. There is nothing wise, powerful, or loving about the biblical picture of God. It flies it the face of the very picture it’s attempting to paint.

This story of God has God as an egotistical judgmental dictator who actually is quite emotional. He get angry and sad, he has ambitions of becoming the King of Kings and Lord of Lord over his own creation, and he’s at war with evil demons that he obviously has no control over. He even had to drown out his entire creation at one point because he has no control over anything. It a picture of a totally inept God.

A picture that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It’s an unworkable picture in the larger scale of things. God can’t be an authoritarian with ambitions of becoming the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That’s the egotistical ambitions of men. Not of a genuine supreme being. The bible reduces God to having the same frail failings as men. The bible is God created in the image of man, not the other way around.

The idea that God is a judgmental authoritarian just doesn't fly.

Abra!

highlights are headlights

I haven’t seen anyone condemning Jesus.

Clearly you misunderstand. Which doesn’t surprise me in the least.

Not if Jesus and the God of Abraham are one and the same.

John 14:9
John 8:58
Exodus 3:14-15.
John 17: 24-25.


You give Him no place.

abra.....ALL that u speak bible prophecy back u up 100%.....if one does not yet see how, than the whole meaning of the scriptures is not yet made known....jmo

it certainly seems that ALL that jesus said was that all others were JUST as him, as what is done even to the least important person on earth is the same as doing it to him......so to HIM all were equal......so why would HE, JESUS, want ANYONE to make HIM GREATER than the least????? it was not his WISH for people to worship HIM, but LIFE, ALL LIFE......each porson just as he did.....only seems like all that i have read, lol.....jmo

ALL LIFE WAS SAID TO COME FROM GOD......WHY DO WE GROPE AROUND IN THE DARK LOOKING FOR GOD OR JESUS WHEN ALL THAT THE ENTIRE BIBLE SAID WAS THAT LIFE WAS PRECIOUS, SO PRECIOUS THAT A BOOK WAS GIVEN THAT FORCAST NOT WHAT TO DO, BUT RATHER WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, THE EXACT STORY OF HOW ALL MEN WOULD ACT, AND FEEL.....NOT TO SAY ONE WAS BAD WHEN THEY FELT THIS WAY, OR DID THIS THING, BUT RATHER LOOK AND SEE WHAT TRUTH COULD MAKE YOU NOT GUILTY, AS I HAVE FORGIVEN EVEN BEFORE ASKING.........A LITTLE HELP WAS SOMETHING THAT ANY GOOD FATHER GIVE TO A CHILD.......THE WHOLE PLAY BOOK THE BIBLE WAS A LITTLE MORE THAN JUST HELP, AS IT TOLD EVEN ALL THAT WOULD HAPPEN SO THERE WOULD BE NO BAD SURPRISES, SO THAT WHEN SOMEHTING LOOKED AS EVIL, OR HARMFUL, OR HOPLESS, ONE COULD FIND HOW IT WAS NOT......BUT THIS HELP WAS SEEN AS CONDEMNATION, SINCE MAN LIVE FEARING HIS THOUGHTS, AND ALL HE READ THAT SAY HE MIGHT BE GUILTY, LOL.......AND THE VERY FIRST RULE OF GOD THAT WAS FORGOTTEN WAS HE LOVED UNCONDITIONAL, SO ANY THAT BELIEVED IN HIM HAD TO THINK THIS OF HIM, AND TO THINK THIS OF HIM THEN ONE HEAR EACH THING WHISPERED OR WRITTEN DIFFERENTLY........JMO

I hope its like the planet Endor, the home world of the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi

i do not know the story, but i do know that everything a human wishes and sees as good is good, and it is only the mind which whisper lies that says it is not, lol......the mind whisper a half-truth or lie, for each being to learn wisdom, by having to FIND OUT the other half by living, and once lived, the heart knows the truth, and can speak back the OTHER half to the mind, and win the greatest battle ever fought.....fear in the mind

cool

The only way a Utopia like Heaven could work is if there are very few people

or if to get in each has to first learn wisdom, of how to accomplish all it wish without demanding from or harming anything else, and one get as many lifes as needed to learn, lol.....so nothing get in until it know how to create peace, and peace for all is it's greatest wish.....not it's only wish, but just the greatest wish, lol

it is really not hard to see that even if one gets EVERYTHING it wish, if others are not happy, they will ****ing spoil yours, lol......seems to me this is all the truth wish for us to see, then everything else fall into place......what is the best answer for ALL, not just myself, lol.....

some of the wisest questions of heaven i have ever heard that lead to many truths of what heaven truly is......jmo

very cool, as the truth is always "almost" to cool to believe, and even harder for anyone that believe what religion has taught after interpreting all writings and words thru fear, lol.....btw, JB.....had a succession of dreams and visions and seen the EXACT same thing you did, and then i asked HOW could this be true, and it was explained in detail.....these details totally coincided with EVERY scripture in the bible, when i seen them without fear, lol.......there is no need for a guess EVER when our hearts are a GENIE IN A BOTTLE, that we only need to ask HOW, WHY, WHEN, WHERE when we see each thing we think is true, just not all the truth, and to ask for MORE from the thing that first spoke incredibles to us.........it was said in a last days mens thoughts would be percieved as wicked all day long, lol......it never said they were wicked, but that they would sound wicked to the hearer.......each wicked or ridiculous thought hold the hidden key when one ask WHAT THE **** COULD THIS MEAN, LOL......and not run away in fear, lol.....jmo

cool

The Genesis story begins with, and the rest of biblical exposition, following a consistent thread of truth that is like threading a needle and holding the knot and watching the needle behave like a plumb bob; in that, everything is up or down of one thing.

Life....

or the knowledge of good and evil.


It is a mysterious conssequqence that, philosophically, the picture painted with that comparison has either a wall separating the two or a bridge between the two.

And the choice is apparent from the beginning, and through to the end in light of that premise.

Knowing good and evil only perpetuates itself as a polarity pendulum incessantly repeating itself to and fro in perpetuity as an observation, an embrace, a contemplation,etc.

The idea that life is not evident by the other is a peculiar depiction.

It is an impossible paradox to reconcile and merge in harmony as depicted ; A wall between the two.

Yet, the "tree of life" is in the midst.

Choices abound.

I see the difference as comparing oranges to apples.

each fruit has a seed, and each seed produces it's own kind; as nature displays, never the other.

To know sowing and reaping is to plant the seeds.

To know the fruit, is to eat it and free the seeds. No tools required

They each have a distinctive taste, sweet and palatable, which affords different benefits, nutritionally speaking.

Yet, though they grow in the same ground as trees, they are not the same in that which they produce, apart from being fruit bearing trees of distinctive merit.

In the end, an apt distinction has been belabored in scripture to direct my attention to comprehending that they are an allegorical metaphor made plain through the bridge made between the two.

I will explain..........

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is self righteousness and the fruit of it is a balance of works, good and evil, which must be judged for their posterity and suitability in being grafted into another garden; only the best of which will be planted elsewhere.

The tree of life, on the other hand, is the rghteousness of God and the fruit of it is not of works but of grace and mercy and love; and the fruit of that is without judgement because good and evil are not complicit in love's outward expression. So, even in judgement, all of the fruit is at it's best and it's posterity and suitability in being grafted into another garden is without judgement, and no distinction can be made to segregate the fruit and grade it, singularly, jointly, or severally as to it's inherent quality.



But then, I am looking back on this from centuries removed from all that contributed to the whole of the story which has found itself convveyed over time as such as it is found, bound in a collection of writings about one man.

If this one man, as an incarnate representation of incarnate truth is in fact the gardener and the husbandman of the garden itself, then he also made it the way it is.

That is a distinction that has been asked of me to comprehend for having read the writing.

I get it.


But I had to participate in all of the story to see the whole story and be certain that it is not just a myth.

It is not just an epic novel after all.

It is an instruction manual, after all.

A treasure map, if you will.

A guide to the guide.

A circumnavigation of itself ; not to and fro.

The tree of life, on the other hand, is the rghteousness of God and the fruit of it is not of works but of grace and mercy and love; and the fruit of that is without judgement because good and evil are not complicit in love's outward expression. So, even in judgement, all of the fruit is at it's best and it's posterity and suitability in being grafted into another garden is without judgement, and no distinction can be made to segregate the fruit and grade it, singularly, jointly, or severally as to it's inherent quality.

Would this not describe Yahshua? I am the Life...He said he did not judge even though he had the right. Notice Gabriel would not bring a accussation against satan in Jude. Yet Satan is called the accusser of the Brethern. So is Yahshua really that Tree of Life whose leaves are for the healing of the nationns and whose 12 fruits are the fruit of his labor? Blessings.....Miles

I hope there is grass, greener than green. Trees that tower and sway. Birds that fly and sing. Animals; I do so hope that if there is a heaven; there are many of them. Not to eat, but to enjoy.

I would hope that there is people with the many conversations about heaven and it'd bounties. I would hope that it is not boring, ever tasting the fruits of humaness. I would hope for light as well as darkness.

Calm weather with soft gentle rains. Even some lightening thrown in the mix. I would think I would maybe miss the rain. But of course; it needs to rain to water the grass, the trees. I want flowers.

I wonder if there is a heaven if there will be what we love the most in life...there?

I would wish we had our families and loved them as our families. Not just a group of roaming wondering people with only silent goings on.

No gold streets. No gold houses. That just seeems to strange to me. But, if that is what it is, then so be it. Would I even know what it is I am missing; if it isn't there? Will our memories be gone? I hope not. Well, maybe the bad ones.

Kat

each thing spoken here i agree with completely, and only say that truth is what is god.....god can be anything in physical manifestation......a donkey, a bird, a tree, moses bush.....so it is only the TRUTH that must be inserted into each place one read and think of a figment of the imagination of a god, lol......

each being born contain the tree of life the heart, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil the mind......how these two work togther and become as one is as god becoming one with man.....and the same work for each being one to another.....

the truth has no DEFINITION.....it just answer every unknown or half-truth the "bad" tree whisper as they come in front of it, lol.......when it is a grown or mature tree.....

the "bad" tree become the good tree to find the truth, oh, but wait, then night become as day and day as night.....and what is UP with GOD is down to MAN it was said......so the truth of mens minds shall be the OPPOSITE of the truth.......EACH ANCIENT TRUTH OR FABLE OR TRADITION OR RELIGION.....FLIP IT TO THE OPPOSITE AND THE TRUTH IS APPARENT.........BABY AS A KING???? LOL........THE TRUTH ALWAYS HIDE IN PLAIN SITE BECAUSE IT IS DIOBOLICALLY OPPOSED TO THE WAY THE FIRST NATURAL WIRING OF THE BRAIN IS......hum......AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME AS ONE......did say this would happen......we just thought it ONLY applied to men and women, lol.......oh god, where have we come but to the brink of ALL ?????????????????????????????????????????????????'s

a great scavenger hunt for the truth of mankinds existence when FEAR is removed from MANKIND........will an outpouring of the holy spirit MAKE fear or take it away.....a careful inspection of it's characteristics is warranted......be careful what u wish for, u just might get it all, not knowing what u ask for as the song goes.......if a holy spirit is one that make men see things as HOLY, then indeed this would make all say what is RIGHT, and what is WRONG.....and seperate the two, as so seperate all men, but the truth look to see HOW DO ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD, lol......

the truth always walk away after speaking blindly to then be whispered the meaning of it's own words........faith...ever learning

so which spirit be of god or the truth.....for the SPIRIT and bride say come......so what the truth will say when known will make all wish to hear it as it say good things about what was once thought to be bad about ourselves.........what make people RUN IN FEAR of the truth even today just as once in a eden.....a holy spirit.......and the holy spirit hovered the earth, in genesis......read slow, lol........and the physical counterpart manifestation of this unseen uncontrollable by man fear phenomenon is GRAVITY............that is a holy spirit that does that, and that spirit or energy is about to be expired as soon fear has worked all it's magic to bring wisdom, then it is as the beast cast back to earth for a new cycle............expell the fears one has now by speaking them, just like the body expell it's waste product or it suffer, lol, as rememeber fear attract fear, so if there be fear in one, during a time of environmental fear you DO NOT WANT TO HAVE IT, LOL.......we should be saying all the things that help others to SAY their fears, not make them HIDE them......if we as a human make another HIDE from us, what spirit be bigger in us........if one contain something they do not like, if they open their mouth and admit it and speak it, it is released as a bird to the heavens......

if there be ANY evil or FEAR, than there HAS to be an unknown truth not yet discovered.....perfect love or the truth WILL cast out all fear......that means 100%....no fear of the dark allowed......no fear of heathens allowed....no fear of evil allowed......no fear of the of the end of the world allowed........no fear of the bill collector allowed.......no fear of homosexuals allowed........no fear of lesbians allowed......no fear of DEATH allowed.......no fear of the welfare of our kids allowed........no fear of violence allowed......no fear of the cops.....no fear of the government......no fear of NOT having something u want......we got fear, thats for damn sure, and the ones that preach holiness, are consumed the MOST by the fear......be for real.....if one KNOW the WHOLE truth, these things must be, or something has been missed, or the bible so many believe in is a lie, and GOD fail, not man.......

it was told of john to seal up the book, so it was not him that wrote HOLY on the front, lol.......minds of men.....

just a play book dudes, lol.....what ya so worked up about....fear got your panties pulled into a weggie, and you wont admit you even feel it, lol......

fyi, check out "bravery's" new cd.....weak can always admit it has fear, and why it's fear CANNOT control it......god was said to come for the WEAK, not the self-professed STRONG, LOL.....jmo

it's gotta be so simple and good that u can write it or say it to a child and it MAKE NO FEAR OF GOD IF IT BE THE WHOLE TRUTH.......jmo