q- What was the last thing that Jesus told his decipled to do before being arrested???
ans.- "since i have been with you have you wanted for anything?" they answered, no master. "so now i will be leaving you so if you have to, sell your shirt to buy a SWORD."
.... SOMEWHERE I LUKE I BELIEVE.

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large, is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
George Washington

I will not argue anymore. Actually READ the words of our founding fathers to determine their intent. If people would read this they would understand the sacrafice these men made, and their reasons for implementing such safe guards for us, and our children. Argue with them because I am out of here

Single_Rob


I especially like this one:

Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords and every terrible implement of the soldier are the birthright of Americans. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but where, I trust in God, it will always remain, in the hands of the people.
Tench Coxe

Kind of hard to argue with constitutional facts, our forefathers and the harsh reality of life....we have a right to bear arms....

Lets define the word right.....

inconformity with the rules which ought to regulate human action, in conformity with duty, truth an justice or will of God.

The opposite of wrong, a just claim, legal or other claim; a perrogative, privelege belonging to one as a member of a state, society or community, authority and legal power

To be in the right, not to be in the wrong, the absolute right as opposed to be in the wrong.

All of which come from the Webster's Dictionary published in 1942. And current publications have not changed these definitions of the word right. The word has not lost its meaning from the days when the constitution was written but everyone thinks they can change the meaning that our forefathers intended the word to mean....

Just like many try to change Gods words written by the Disciples...to support their own beliefs, desires and ways they choose to live their life.......

And to those who think that Gods word is open to change because of the times we live are sadly mistaken.........If you have actually studied Gods word, in depth as I have.....It is not open to interpretation.....it is intended as it is written....

We are not to add to or take away from God's word.

I believe that, in this case, that definition is incorrectly applied. A "right" in matters of jurisprudence and law, is:

The legal or moral entitlement to do or refrain from doing something or to obtain or refrain from obtaining an action, thing or recognition in civil society.

(Contrast with "privilege", denoting some peculiar benefit or advantage, some right or immunity, not enjoyed by the world at large.)

Privileges are granted by governing authorities. Rights are inherent, by the Grace of God (Natural Law).

It stated rights are given in justice or the will of God.

So it addresses both the legal system created by our governing body and God given rights....

just my typing is not all that great

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,

deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

— That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,

laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world

-----------------------------

****WHO IS GOING TO HOLD THE GOVT ACOUNTABL AND ENFORCE THE DECALRATION OF INDEPENDANCE

ENTER THE 2ND AMMENDMENT

----------------------------

U.S. Constitution: Second Amendment

Second Amendment - Bearing Arms

Amendment Text | Annotations

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

----------------------------

DEFINITIONS

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Main Entry: in•fringe
Pronunciation: in-'frinj
Function: verb
Inflected Forms: in•fringed; in•fring•ing
Etymology: Medieval Latin infringere, from Latin, to break, crush, from in- in + frangere to break
transitive verb : to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another <the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed —U.S. Constitution amendment II>; especially : to violate a holder's rights under (a copyright, patent, trademark, or trade name) intransitive verb : ENCROACH —in•fring•er noun
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

en•croach (n-krch)
intr.v. en•croached, en•croach•ing, en•croach•es
1. To take another's possessions or rights gradually or stealthily: encroach on a neighbor's land.
2. To advance beyond proper or former limits: desert encroaching upon grassland.
3. Football To commit encroachment.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

peo•ple (ppl)
n. pl. people
1. Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers: People were dancing in the street. I met all sorts of people.
2. A body of persons living in the same country under one national government; a nationality.
3. pl. peo•ples A body of persons sharing a common religion, culture, language, or inherited condition of life.
4. Persons with regard to their residence, class, profession, or group: city people.
5. The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the: "those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes" Thomas Jefferson.
6. The citizens of a political unit, such as a nation or state; the electorate. Used with the.
7. Persons subordinate to or loyal to a ruler, superior, or employer: The queen showed great compassion for her people.
8. Family, relatives, or ancestors.
9. Informal Animals or other beings distinct from humans: Rabbits and squirrels are the furry little people of the woods

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/people

------------------------------------

SO IF THE GOVT INFRINGES (see DEFINITIONS)

THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE (SEE DEFINITIONS)

TO BEAR ARMS

WHO IS GOING TOENFORCE THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
WHEN THE GOVT BEGINS ABUSING THEIR POWERS

------------------------------------


deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

------------------------------------

AND BEGIN RESTRICTING THE

------------------------------------

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men

-------------------------------------

WHO WILL STEP IN AND REMOVE THE

-------------------------------------

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

----------------------------------

AND INSTITUTE THE NEW GOVT

DO YOU THINK THE GOVT IS GOING TO DO IT

IT IS UP TO THE PEOPLE

AND TO DO SO THE PEOPLE NEED TO BE ARMED

AN UNARMED PEOPLE ARE SLAVE TO THOSE IN POWER

AND THE GOVT ARE THE MASTERS

WHICH IS NOT WHAT IS WRITTEN IN

THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDANCE

-------------------------------------

deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

a weapon = power. A tool with equalizing properties that makes the smallest man equal to the largest. When wielded correctly it can be a deterant for crime and allow one to defend his or herself. Accidents always happen as they do with anything else. The more dangerous the tool the higher risk of have a detrimental accident. Guns, myfriends, in the right hands are a tool that can be used for safety. They can also prevent, or stop violent crimes. All they do is give people power to take a certain action. I really don't see where it is wise to keep everyone willing to obey laws from weilding power.

Those who would give up essential liberties, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety.

--- Benjamin Franklin


History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall.

--- Adolf Hitler, Edict of 18 March 1939


Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage then to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

--- Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764


Basically in the right hands a firearm is a good thing. And yes, it is a very practical means of protection. If it weren't then we should immediately disarm all our military as well as our police.

the nails on the coffin of those who oppose the 2nd amendment should be nailed flush with these last few posts. Thank you my friends for carrying on when I had to take a break

Jistme;
Ya know, we don't see eye to eye that much in the forums it seems, however -


*DAMN* good question! I have been puzzling over that for years.

I still think a safety course is constitutional.you can bear the arms but its my right to live thru some ding dongs inexperience or bad aim.

is it really that hard to figure out

am i just smarter

or is it the other way around

------

the court is operated by what agency

can we say the govt

who gets more control of the people if they are unarmed

again can we say the govt

what would happen if the govt blatantly took the arms

can we say revolution

thus the govt is patient and nit picks a piece here and there

erodes the freedoms and the liberties with scare tactics and demonizing and offering a false false sense of security

i have always said the safety courses should start in kindergarten

Oh, there's no mystery involved; a government will always strive to interpret a freedom of the people in the most restrictive terms possible - the more archaic the language used, the easier it is for them to redefine what was "originally intended". It is merely the instinct of self-preservation in action.

I'm just glad that finallly some attention was finally brought to these issues in the debate tonight....I hope I had some influence on that but prolly not.

well you probably did

but this has been hashed and rehashed many times over the last year

but at least it has remained civil this time

YAY YAY YAY

EVERYONE GETZ A GOLD STAR

I'm so glad that all of you have contributed...please don't stop....this is a very sensitive issue that needs real reform or at least a compromise and I have read this exhaustive report and I have come to this conclusion....this thread is making real headway and I hope that all of you and America appreciate this. Thanks again all so much and may we all keep pushing this to people who need it....undereducated Americans. <---Meaning on the whole gun thing

may we all come together to protect each other and our families at all costs on our own soil from all enemies both foreign and domestic....may god bless and be will us all in these hard fallen and fragile times.