Community > Politics, Current News & Events

Topic: THE PEOPLE Versus GEORGE WALKER BUSH
rambill79 Joined Thu 09/14/06 Posts: 5780	Mon 04/14/08 07:41 PM
once we have studied history, did the math, ect ect., we must then move FORWARD. To continue the blame game ad nauseum is a waste of time.

rambill79 Joined Thu 09/14/06 Posts: 5780	Mon 04/14/08 07:43 PM
huh????? were you consious during the clintonista regime where all this was set up in advance? how quickly we forget.

Lindyy Joined Tue 01/01/08 Posts: 2699	Mon 04/14/08 07:43 PM
To Lindyy- Sorry if that broad statement about Bush supporters lumps you in, but to be honest, I just call 'em how I see 'em and I see the Entire Neoconservative movement as a cancer that has been eating our nation away since its conception. Nothing personal. Warmachine, You did it again! OK, everyone can have a laugh on me, but what is Neoconservative? I am right wing Conservative Republican. I am not a bad person, although a lot of people hate my posts. Sigh......... Lindyy

toastedoranges Joined Thu 01/03/08 Posts: 11042	Mon 04/14/08 07:46 PM
once we have studied history, did the math, ect ect., we must then move FORWARD. To continue the blame game ad nauseum is a waste of time. our recent history(last 20 years) is still biting us in the ass. the blame game could have some resolution if there was actually a group held accountable

mnhiker Joined Wed 02/14/07 Posts: 3771	Mon 04/14/08 08:12 PM
To Lindyy- Sorry if that broad statement about Bush supporters lumps you in, but to be honest, I just call 'em how I see 'em and I see the Entire Neoconservative movement as a cancer that has been eating our nation away since its conception. Nothing personal. Warmachine, You did it again! OK, everyone can have a laugh on me, but what is Neoconservative? I am right wing Conservative Republican. I am not a bad person, although a lot of people hate my posts. Sigh......... Lindyy Lindyy, Neoconservatism from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

rambill79 Joined Thu 09/14/06 Posts: 5780	Mon 04/14/08 08:13 PM
mabe but it dont change the FACT that we are at war now.

Lindyy Joined Tue 01/01/08 Posts: 2699	Mon 04/14/08 08:26 PM Edited by Lindyy on Mon 04/14/08 08:27 PM
Lindyy, Neoconservatism from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism ************************************************************ mnhiker: Thanks. Confusing and bewildering to me. I love Billy Kristol and The Heritage Foundation. I would call myself a Reagan conservative. Lindyy

warmachine Joined Tue 04/08/08 Posts: 4528	Mon 04/14/08 08:26 PM
To Lindyy- Sorry if that broad statement about Bush supporters lumps you in, but to be honest, I just call 'em how I see 'em and I see the Entire Neoconservative movement as a cancer that has been eating our nation away since its conception. Nothing personal. Warmachine, You did it again! OK, everyone can have a laugh on me, but what is Neoconservative? I am right wing Conservative Republican. I am not a bad person, although a lot of people hate my posts. Sigh......... Lindyy NeoConservatism is the running philosphy that mixes Trotsky principles with Wilsonianism. True Conservatives hate this crap. Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of social liberalism and the New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the presidential administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush, representing a realignment in American politics, and the defection of some liberals to the right side of the political spectrum which refers to being 'new' conservatives. Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, seeing the American role of world's sole superpower as indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order. The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had "moved to the right". Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy. According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by "the notion that liberalism" had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about." The first major neoconservative to embrace the term was Irving Kristol, in his 1979 article "Confessions of a True, Self-Confessed 'Neoconservative. Kristol's ideas had been influential since then 1950s, when he co-founded and edited Encounter magazine. Another source was Norman Podhoretz, editor of Commentary magazine from 1960 to 1995. By 1982 Podhoretz was calling himself a neoconservative, in a New York Times Magazine article titled "The Neoconservative Anguish over Reagan's Foreign Policy". Prominent neoconservative periodicals are Commentary and The Weekly Standard. Neoconservatives are associated with foreign policy initiatives of think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), The Heritage Foundation, and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). Disputes over Israel and public policy contributed to a sharp conflict with 'paleoconservatives," starting in the 1980s. The movement's name ("old conservative") was taken as a rebuke to the neo side. The old school conservatives view the neoconservatives as "militarist social democrats" and interlopers who deviate from traditional conservatism agenda on issues as diverse as federalism, immigration, foreign policy, the welfare state, abortion, feminism and homosexuality. All of this leads to a debate over what counts as conservatism. The paleoconservatives argue that neoconservatives are an illegitimate addition to the conservative movement. Pat Buchanan calls neoconservatism "a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology." The open rift is often traced back to a 1981 dispute over Ronald Reagan's nomination of Mel Bradford, a Southerner, to run the National Endowment for the Humanities. Bradford withdrew after neoconservatives complained that he had criticized Abraham Lincoln; the paleoconservatives supported Bradford. There's a ton more information about this. You should google: Ron Paul NeoConned.

mnhiker Joined Wed 02/14/07 Posts: 3771	Mon 04/14/08 08:32 PM
To Lindyy- Sorry if that broad statement about Bush supporters lumps you in, but to be honest, I just call 'em how I see 'em and I see the Entire Neoconservative movement as a cancer that has been eating our nation away since its conception. Nothing personal. Warmachine, You did it again! OK, everyone can have a laugh on me, but what is Neoconservative? I am right wing Conservative Republican. I am not a bad person, although a lot of people hate my posts. Sigh......... Lindyy NeoConservatism is the running philosphy that mixes Trotsky principles with Wilsonianism. True Conservatives hate this crap. Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of social liberalism and the New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the presidential administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush, representing a realignment in American politics, and the defection of some liberals to the right side of the political spectrum which refers to being 'new' conservatives. Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, seeing the American role of world's sole superpower as indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order. The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had "moved to the right". Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy. According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by "the notion that liberalism" had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about." The first major neoconservative to embrace the term was Irving Kristol, in his 1979 article "Confessions of a True, Self-Confessed 'Neoconservative. Kristol's ideas had been influential since then 1950s, when he co-founded and edited Encounter magazine. Another source was Norman Podhoretz, editor of Commentary magazine from 1960 to 1995. By 1982 Podhoretz was calling himself a neoconservative, in a New York Times Magazine article titled "The Neoconservative Anguish over Reagan's Foreign Policy". Prominent neoconservative periodicals are Commentary and The Weekly Standard. Neoconservatives are associated with foreign policy initiatives of think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), The Heritage Foundation, and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). Disputes over Israel and public policy contributed to a sharp conflict with 'paleoconservatives," starting in the 1980s. The movement's name ("old conservative") was taken as a rebuke to the neo side. The old school conservatives view the neoconservatives as "militarist social democrats" and interlopers who deviate from traditional conservatism agenda on issues as diverse as federalism, immigration, foreign policy, the welfare state, abortion, feminism and homosexuality. All of this leads to a debate over what counts as conservatism. The paleoconservatives argue that neoconservatives are an illegitimate addition to the conservative movement. Pat Buchanan calls neoconservatism "a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology." The open rift is often traced back to a 1981 dispute over Ronald Reagan's nomination of Mel Bradford, a Southerner, to run the National Endowment for the Humanities. Bradford withdrew after neoconservatives complained that he had criticized Abraham Lincoln; the paleoconservatives supported Bradford. There's a ton more information about this. You should google: Ron Paul NeoConned. FYI. Bill Kristol is Irving Kristol's son. For what it's worth.

Lindyy Joined Tue 01/01/08 Posts: 2699	Mon 04/14/08 08:32 PM
Thanks! I am not a neoconservative. Although Ron Paul is a Christian, I think he is rather radical. Lindyy

Lindyy Joined Tue 01/01/08 Posts: 2699	Mon 04/14/08 08:33 PM
FYI. Bill Kristol is Irving Kristol's son. For what it's worth. Well, I still like Billy Kristol. Lindyy

Lindyy Joined Tue 01/01/08 Posts: 2699	Mon 04/14/08 08:35 PM
I think it is time I sign off. I cannot seem to use the 'quote' right. Lindyy

warmachine Joined Tue 04/08/08 Posts: 4528	Mon 04/14/08 08:35 PM
Thanks! I am not a neoconservative. Although Ron Paul is a Christian, I think he is rather radical. Lindyy what makes you think that Dr. Paul is a radical?

mnhiker Joined Wed 02/14/07 Posts: 3771	Mon 04/14/08 08:35 PM
To Lindyy- Sorry if that broad statement about Bush supporters lumps you in, but to be honest, I just call 'em how I see 'em and I see the Entire Neoconservative movement as a cancer that has been eating our nation away since its conception. Nothing personal. Warmachine, You did it again! OK, everyone can have a laugh on me, but what is Neoconservative? I am right wing Conservative Republican. I am not a bad person, although a lot of people hate my posts. Sigh......... Lindyy NeoConservatism is the running philosphy that mixes Trotsky principles with Wilsonianism. True Conservatives hate this crap. Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States from the rejection of social liberalism and the New Left counterculture of the 1960s. It influenced the presidential administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush, representing a realignment in American politics, and the defection of some liberals to the right side of the political spectrum which refers to being 'new' conservatives. Neoconservatism emphasizes foreign policy as the paramount responsibility of government, seeing the American role of world's sole superpower as indispensable to establishing and maintaining global order. The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had "moved to the right". Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973 Dissent magazine article concerning welfare policy. According to E. J. Dionne, the nascent neoconservatives were driven by "the notion that liberalism" had failed and "no longer knew what it was talking about." The first major neoconservative to embrace the term was Irving Kristol, in his 1979 article "Confessions of a True, Self-Confessed 'Neoconservative. Kristol's ideas had been influential since then 1950s, when he co-founded and edited Encounter magazine. Another source was Norman Podhoretz, editor of Commentary magazine from 1960 to 1995. By 1982 Podhoretz was calling himself a neoconservative, in a New York Times Magazine article titled "The Neoconservative Anguish over Reagan's Foreign Policy". Prominent neoconservative periodicals are Commentary and The Weekly Standard. Neoconservatives are associated with foreign policy initiatives of think tanks such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), The Heritage Foundation, and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). Disputes over Israel and public policy contributed to a sharp conflict with 'paleoconservatives," starting in the 1980s. The movement's name ("old conservative") was taken as a rebuke to the neo side. The old school conservatives view the neoconservatives as "militarist social democrats" and interlopers who deviate from traditional conservatism agenda on issues as diverse as federalism, immigration, foreign policy, the welfare state, abortion, feminism and homosexuality. All of this leads to a debate over what counts as conservatism. The paleoconservatives argue that neoconservatives are an illegitimate addition to the conservative movement. Pat Buchanan calls neoconservatism "a globalist, interventionist, open borders ideology." The open rift is often traced back to a 1981 dispute over Ronald Reagan's nomination of Mel Bradford, a Southerner, to run the National Endowment for the Humanities. Bradford withdrew after neoconservatives complained that he had criticized Abraham Lincoln; the paleoconservatives supported Bradford. There's a ton more information about this. You should google: Ron Paul NeoConned. FYI. Bill Kristol is Irving Kristol's son. For what it's worth. What do you know. Something me and Pat Buchanan agree upon.

warmachine Joined Tue 04/08/08 Posts: 4528	Mon 04/14/08 09:10 PM
What do you know. Something me and Pat Buchanan agree upon. LOL! I bet you could find alot more. I just read his book "Day of Reckoning", Pat wrote this: THE FIRST EPISTLE TO THE NEOCONS On Feb. 26 2003, the eve of the invasion of Iraq, President Bush attended the annual dinner of the American Enterprise Institute, one of the think tanks out of which many of the architects andn promoters of his war had come. The reception was rapturous. The President did not disappoint: "Human cultures can be vastly different.Yet the human heart desires the same good things, everywhere on Earth. In our desire to be safe from brutal and bullying oppression, human beings are the same...For these fundamental reasons, freedom and democracy will always and everywhere have greater appeal than the slogans of hatred and the tactics of terror." But the human heart manifestly does not everywhere and always desire "the same good things". Throught the ages, men have set their hearts on fame, money, power, glory, conquest,sanctity. As a Christian, President Bush knows man is a fallen being, tempted constantly to the capital sins of Pride,covetousness,lust,anger, gluttony, envy, and sloth. "In our desire to be safe from brutal and bullying oppression, human beings are the same." But, demonstratably, in this desire, we are not the same. In the 20th century, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot and Castro ruled regimes with vast bureaucracuies of sincere and dedicated men who murdered tens of millions and brutalized a billion people to hold power and advance ther vision. And if in the "desire to be safe from brutal and bullying oppressions, human beings are the same" how did slavery endure for millennia? Where did Bush come by these ideas, contradicted as the are by the history of the Human Race? Surely not in Midland, TX. --------------------------------------------------------------- Pat isn't perfect, Lord knows, but he's got a firm grasp on what the NeoConservatives are just plain wrong about. That book is pretty good at showing where we've been and where we could be headed if we don't change course. Think Rome, but worse. Does this fall under the Fair use act? It was designed to be educational!

Lindyy Joined Tue 01/01/08 Posts: 2699	Tue 04/15/08 07:24 AM
Thanks! I am not a neoconservative. Although Ron Paul is a Christian, I think he is rather radical. Lindyy what makes you think that Dr. Paul is a radical? I have listened to him in debates. He is very good on certain issues, but others, to even me, he is just tooooo far to the right. I know a lot of people consider him to be the only true conservative running, but I just think he goes overboard, even as a Christian, he makes me say "What?" I do not like the way he presents himself, his demeanor, in debates. Lindyy

Jistme Joined Wed 10/31/07 Posts: 2991	Tue 04/15/08 08:16 AM
I would not classify linddy as a Neocon either... Maybe Neotheocrat.. but not New Conservative.

Lindyy Joined Tue 01/01/08 Posts: 2699	Tue 04/15/08 08:41 AM
I would not classify linddy as a Neocon either... Maybe Neotheocrat.. but not New Conservative. Jistme: Are you the one who tried to help me with a pc problem? OK, before I flip out, what is a Neothecrat? Please do not start first thing in the AM. I am trying to keep my Irish temper under control Lindyy

warmachine Joined Tue 04/08/08 Posts: 4528	Tue 04/15/08 09:00 AM
Thanks! I am not a neoconservative. Although Ron Paul is a Christian, I think he is rather radical. Lindyy what makes you think that Dr. Paul is a radical? I have listened to him in debates. He is very good on certain issues, but others, to even me, he is just tooooo far to the right. I know a lot of people consider him to be the only true conservative running, but I just think he goes overboard, even as a Christian, he makes me say "What?" I do not like the way he presents himself, his demeanor, in debates. Lindyy Huh, I thought Dr. Paul was very respectful during the debates, considering he was shoved to one side, ignored and even attacked and lied to by the socalled moderators. I'm just wondering what is it about Dr.Paul that you find to be so out there. Is it the idea of reducing the size and scope of Government? Is it bringing the troops from all these overseas unneeded bases? Is it the idea of getting rid of the federal reserve and propping up our currency with a commodity instead of printing billions backed by nothing, destroying the buying power of the average American with immoral inflation tax? I'd like to know where this impression of being far out there, radical and what it is about his demeanor that pushed you off.

Jistme Joined Wed 10/31/07 Posts: 2991	Tue 04/15/08 09:22 AM
I'm not trying to start anything... Neo is another word for new. So to call you a neocon is to say you once was a liberal and switched sides. A theocrat is someone who believes that society should be run by the clergy. Both the PTL and Christian Coalition are theocratic in nature, but relatively new on the political conservative stage. The irony is... Conservatism speaks of less government, less State power, less intrusiveness... Neotheocratic thinking, which can sometimes be made to look like conservatism in theory.. does anything but conservative, in practice. By the by.. I believe neotheocrat is not really a word... But it does seem to fit in this line of discussion.