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Topic:
Politics and your religion
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thanks BB - that's a fair reply. What's more, I think what you've said is a fair representation of what almost everyone in the US believes. For example, the only time people have an opinion of political affairs is when they think something is affecting them personally. The truth is no one much cares what the government does as long it doesn't interfere with how they expect to live their lives. BUT ACTUALLY - what I was wondering is if anyone in JSH land hold any particualy "religious beleifs" or "religious morals" regarding political activity. Example - refusal to go to war, refusal to participate in any political arena, even jury duty or if a particular religion frowns of voting, for example. Along those lines what would any religion think about an individual getting involved PRO OR CON to civil rights political activity? ANYONE? Well honestly... Refusal to go to war is a huge one, because a lot of people from alternative spiritual or cultural backgrounds would have ethical issues with being part of an invasion force regardless of how justification is explained. Most minority religion members who are active are driven towards civil rights, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech issues because even if church and state are seperate non Christians are not awarded equal rights per the majority of the population in reality. So far as I know although certain biblical lessons teach freedom of religion and belief as a basic concept, the church of our times teaches against this so Christians are not permitted to be christian per mainstream belief while standing up for the rights of non-christians. I understand this is a paradox, and I could be incorrect it is my personal view of the situation as I have witnessed it, and been exposed to discrimination from Christians without ever having other christians dispute, stop, or discourage them. |
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Topic:
Politics and your religion
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Where does your religion stand with regards to affairs of state? If the State is seperate, at the level of the law, from all religions than how would your participation, in any way, with the governance of state be viewed by your religious dictates? LMAO I have a different spin on this thought... My spiritual convictions forbid engaging in politics other than civil rights defense because the system is so corrupt. :) |
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I adore tapastries, actually any kind of woodworking as well. I imagine your realm to be quite inspirational. I also agree with how you have determined what fits with your 'style' and what doesn't. I think, it's not so much that you are a collector as you wish to surround yourself with the sentiments of your beliefs. Beliefs that that seem to allow you to enjoy and recieve somthing of value from the inpired art works of others. Thanks for the reply. How enjoyable it is to have a discussion, without offense being taken at every word. 
Thank you for the compliment! In truth although I believe my home has much beauty in it i'm unsure how many would find it inspirational. Rather than bold statements of belief I just have a few items that give things away. So far as the cermonial pipes one has to know what they are to even know they are significant. To be honest, rather than wish to surround myself with as decorations it is more accurate to explain the situation. My home was without any real decoration for a very long time. the reason is that I wanted to wait until I could find the exact items that moved me. My ex decided it was too bare and with great skill in some things pushed to start decorating. In many cases I made choices but it was with her guidance. Some of this I did on my own afterwards if I found something I liked. At one point I was looking at the mass produced art on the walls in my living room and simply felt I disliked it or what it represented. I took them down and when I searched the house for replacemtents my pipes that were on a crowded shelf, and my drums that were too small to play were obvious choices. It is from that point that I started using items of spiritual significance as decor by simply spreading it all out. Yes, it is rather nice to simply discuss things. It's by far better than arguing!!! |
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Topic:
Here's you a challenge...
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What's the sense in believing in something or someone if you don't believe the story behind it? Kind of like saying a box would float without a table underneath it. Or a house'd stand without a foundation. Not gonna happen around here too much. Oh I think the foundation is belief regardless of how one reaches it. Some think the bible is the word of "God" while others believe it is the word of man inspired by "God". I think most agree that for their to be belief one must comprehend the concepts in the bible well enough for them to repeat them, or at least state their own understanding of them. |
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Topic:
Share Jesus without Fear
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We need some of those carmel minds. I like carmel apples. Never eaten a carmel mind. How about a carmel brain? or is that caramel? Oh Oh I was with a carmel mind once...All one had to do was mention carmel and the mind would force the body to start anticipating until the women had an almost pained look of longing on her... |
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nope...seems like everyone is being talked down to..like they are lesser... i thought we were all created equal I thought so too...but apparently what I think doesn't matter. |
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If you want to be treated like a human being, or be anywhere near as good as me you have to believe what I believe!
Have, and have nots...straight out of pre-school... Does any Christian here believe this is a an acceptable approach to anything per the teachings of Christ? |
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Topic:
Here's you a challenge...
Edited by
Blackbird
on
Mon 06/16/08 04:51 PM
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I for one get tired of the obtuse responses. The original question was very simple. If someone was interested in hearing about your religion and what you believe, but you were unable to quote scripture how would you convey those thoughts? What would you say? I am presuming by the wording that this is meant to be a question for "Christians". Yes but isn't it already redundant? The scenario suggests that person who is supposed to be interested has already read the book cover to cover several times and while they found it interesting They don't believe it is godly words. Why would they still be interested in something that they have already concluded to be "ungodly"? It seems to me that the whole scenario is amiss. This would be like someone saying, "The idea of some guy living at the North Pole who single-handedly rides around in a flying sleigh pulled by flying raindeer lands on people's roofs and shimmies down their chimneys never getting sooty looking seems utterly impossible. But I WANT TO BELIEVE that Santa Claus exists! PLEASE explain to me how I can believe in Santa Claus without having to believe in the STORY! That's basically what the person would be asking. ok the question is intended to make the reader consider (regardless of whether they answer) if they have enough knowledge of what they believe is "God" to convey this belief withought being able to repeat words from a book like a parrot, cut and paste from a scripture debate site meant to help those without any understanding propogate and defend the bible or christian faith, or simply ignore everything said and insert scripture that may or may not have anything to do with the sitiuation or their belief. The Goal per my personal comprehension of the question is to see if proffessed Christians engaging in these discussions have any thoughts of their own whatsoever, and whether they are capable of sharing those thoughts. Presuming they do have their own minds and are able to do so, it gives insight on their PERSONAL belief once they stop pasting, playing, and repeating scripture that they may or may not understand. |
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Topic:
If Heaven is Your Goal
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The whole process is generally slower in a coffin, and the body may remain identifiable for many months. Some tissues, such as tendons and ligaments, are more resistant to decomposition, while the uterus and prostate glands may last several months. But within a year all that is usually left is the skeleton and teeth, with traces of the tissues on them - it takes 40 to 50 years for the bones to become dry and brittle in a coffin. In soil of neutral acidity, bones may last for hundreds of years, while acid peaty soil gradually dissolves the bones. Kinda gory...gigglesnort Speaking of hermetically sealed coffins...which most are NOT...simple matter of economics here... If one decomposes in a sealed coffin where are you theorizing the mass goes? Even if changing form in a sealed coffin the mass should stay in the same place other than gasses... |
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Topic:
If Heaven is Your Goal
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I'm perfectly happy knowing that when I die my body will return to the Earth by means of decomposition. It makes me happy to know that I can give at least a little bit back to the planet that has supported me for so many years. After all, I've already taken so much. Well if you intend to be buried in a casket, your body will not be giving anything back to the earth for a long time. So you had better donate you body to a forensic lab that puts bodies on the ground to study their decomposition process. If you are cremated, how much will that give back to the earth? Ashes? JB Eh, that's the problem. Most cemeteries require caskets now, I believe. I'd much rather not be buried in a cemetery at all. I'll just have to try and look for other options and see if I can find a happy medium. Why would I be cremated? That's a waste. I struggled with the controled interment laws when I was young. Although what JB states is valid in theory, it fails to encompas the fact that eventually everything breaks down, the concrete would flood, the metal would wear through, and nature would find a way to return your remains in one form or another to it's own system. (Generally speaking) on the other hand if it did not...long after all of the religious waring factions have tried to convert and kill each other until the human race as we know it has ceased to exist...Someone in the distant future or an alien race could find your body and consider it to be interesting and make all kinds of theories about our burial customs while studying your anatomy. LMAO BB |
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Topic:
If Heaven is Your Goal
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Sorry funch no tour with saying the words..You can't take the tour unless you accept Jesus into your heart....thats the gig..... But who is Jesus, the man potrayed by modern Christianity, or the man who spoke against what Christianity has become? |
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Topic:
a few extra
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what is the difference in a few extra pounds and fat? i met someone from jsh last night and they told me that since my profile says a few extra pounds he thought i was gonna be fat...so tell me the difference please Some who are obese and embarassed might claim they are a few extra pounds when they are actually obese. Where the line exists between average and a few extra pounds is unknown and up for debate since some might consider healthy perfect weight overweight. (models, ultra thin, ect.) |
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Topic:
DON"T NEED THE BIBLE???
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Not even so much just the faith of those that already believe. I have no doubt that people that already believe would keep believing. With or without the book. They are too far gone as it is. What I am curious about is would the religion still be around 100 years from now with no bibles. Would word of mouth and faith be enough to keep the religion going. Would God start to give some proof of his existance to keep the religion going or would he be forgotten? Yes...and No. It has been demonstrated throughout the known history of the world that cultures change with or without stable text to guide them. Law has changed, in spite of the text of our constitution even our own government does not follow our constitution all of the time. Worship has changed in spite of using the same texts for centuries depending on who is interpreting the bible and preaching their interpretation since so many do not read it. The Religion itself would probably continue to exist in name, but change drastically and rapidly. So far as proof to avoid being forgotten proof is a relative and perceptual thing. Religion and spirituality have always lacked "proof" because for proof to be provided it would stop being belief and become fact. |
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Topic:
Here's you a challenge...
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I for one get tired of the obtuse responses. The original question was very simple.
If someone was interested in hearing about your religion and what you believe, but you were unable to quote scripture how would you convey those thoughts? What would you say? I am presuming by the wording that this is meant to be a question for "Christians". |
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That is a pretty general description of pagan. I had heard from somewhere that paganism was an actual religion. If this is so I expected more of a structured belief system. I don't expect a pagan to follow the teachings of Jesus, because that would make them more of a Christian. From what you describe it is just a term to tag on anyone who is not heavily into one of the other major religions. My understanding of Wiccans is that they worship the earth and the earth mother or goddess, the sun, the moon, the stars, and they practice their version of magick etc. I have friends who loosely consider themselves wiccans or "witches." I practice my "magick" through the creative techniques but they are not associated with the worship of a god or goddess. JB Right, Like I said. Pagan is a VERY broad term. It covers an entire set of beliefs and is not a structured religion at all. You could get 100 pagans in a room and they will each believe a different thing and perhaps even worship different Gods. Kind of why I said it is a religious Agnosticism really. They pick and choose what they believe and what makes sense to them and it could come from any religion or multiple religions. (By the way. Not all pagans believe or follow Jesus. I have just known some that like what he was preaching and incorporate that into their belief system.) You are correct with Wiccans though. There is a earth mother goddess and a God in Wicca. The Goddess is the dominant diety though. They do look towards the sun, the moon, the stars for guidance and understanding and incorporate that into their magick. I only said witchcraft because that is what it is commonly associated with and most wiccans fully accept that. They don't consider being called a witch deragoratory(sp?) Once during a lecture a pagan that I knew and was listening to with other pagans made a comment to the effect of: "Since christianity became a mainstream religion and dominated the cultures we live in our original spiritual paths were lost. After Christianity has proven to be a complete failure we have saught the lessons of our original cultures, and began to make our own religions so we can find one that works." This is a general statement of course...but conveys a somewhat accurate overall sentiment. Even in the cases of those that are trying to revive exactly ancient belief systems, much is unknown or unproven so they follow the old ways in theory without confirmation about details or significance in some things. |
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Good o see I am not the only one. Religions in general interest me. Just what people believe and why they believe it and their Philosophies and stuff. Whether it be Pagan or otherwise. Right now, I am reading Anton LaVey (He started the Church of Satan and Wrote the Satanic Bible)Not that I have any interest in being a Satanist, it just interests me. Hugs you are always in good company. Some of us engage in non pagan debate so to speak because we know we are in the minority. Personally I've been on the forums this week in an attempt to better understand the views of current Christians and Anti-christian trolls. I already know the sentiments of the pagan communities in a general sense... |
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It seems there are allot of Christians on here (a group I don't identify myself with) So I was wondering if there is anyone on here that has a more Pagan view on life? I don't follow one Specific path, but there are things I believe and things that I don't. My beliefs mostly fall under the Pagan umbrella, so thats what I call myself. Anyone on here a non-Christian or maybe follows a Pagan path? I'm...complicated. I've gone through and examined a number of faith systems and found them all lacking in one way or another. Rather than the concepts themselves this is a problem with the application of religion in an organized form which encourages Dogma. Pagan...Yes that is how I am identified although my views are idiosyncratic. I have definately participated in more Shamanistic and Wiccan cermonies and rituals than any other spiritual path as an adult. |
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Topic:
DON"T NEED THE BIBLE???
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Many on here have stated that they "dont need or put their trust or faith" in the bible, that there trust/faith is in god through JC. Now i know this is the overwhelming statement made so we will proceed with these statement's in mind for now. Questions : 1) If, your faith and trust is in jesus then explain how you found out how to have faith and trust in him without the bible, or without ""someone who had read it"", passing that information on to you or other's? after all - the christian new testament is only found within christianity? the muslims do not have it - the jew's neither? Neither of there concepts see JC as anymore than a man or a prophet at most?? so you certainly would not have gotten this faith and trust from there writing's? 2) Isn't it really true , that without the bible you read - you would not know anything of that which you put your faith and trust in? 3) Isn't it also just as true that as a christian you by your own belief's have to have trust and faith that the bible is "the word of god/JC/holy spirit? and as you think on this - is the truth really that the only reason you believe in god/christ and all else is because you "first" "believed " in the ""word's of the book""? come on - be honest now, not with me - but yourselves. come on - YOU "need the book" - to support your own faith and trust and all else, why don't you just admit it instead of all the " my faith and trust is in JC/GOD - don't you realize how foolish and ignorant that appears to non christian's??? "The Book" LOL...as you put it, is the word of God. Of course it's important...God says heaven & earth will pass away but My words will remain forever. The Bible is for edification, knowledge & righteousness. It tells us what is & is not acceptable to God. It's the roadmap, not God. We worship God, not the bible. You can't have a "relationship" with words, but you can with God. They are His words & Spirit breathed. Others can only point the way through their example & sharing their faith. God instructs people of faith to share it with the world. I never saw anyone say they don't need the bible..other than the pagans here. So now? What's your question? Except that the bible is not the Word of God. It is the words of man speaking for God. Although thats not the point. His point was that if your faith is so strong you the religion should be able to survive without the book. That if this is just inherent knowledge and undeniable faith. The religion should be able to survive and thrive without the bible because the faith comes from inside, not a man written book. LOL...boy O boy...you people just keep trying to change the minds of those who believe. Doesn't it just get you all that we KNOW something you don't? Don't blame God for that.... hehehehe Or us for that matter. Actually I think he makes a good point. If someone took your bible away, and burned it so you could never see it again your faith would remain with or without it. Yes, or no? |
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Topic:
Share Jesus without Fear
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I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. That is his message and that's my message to you. If you care to accept him, he has salvation for you. If you don't care to accept him, he'll shun us after we pass from this life. Not a great concept.
No that's not a great concept at all. What kind of a supreme being would threaten to harm people for not worshiping him? Sounds like something straight out of Greek Mythology. I'm sorry to hear that you have been frightened by these old myths. I can assure you that there is nothing to fear George. You can rest assured that if there is a supreme intelligence behind the creation of this universe it would not have stooped such ruthless and disgusting tactics as this to try to get people to worship it. Yes, there most likely was a man named Jesus. He probably was a really great teachers and he probably did teach love and respect for all men. He probably did confront the Romans in a civil rights movement. And he probably was crucified unjustly on a cross. And there probably were roomers floating around that he was seen after he had died. After all, he was a martyr to the people. Unfortunately, he was probably used again by the authoritarians to create a religion that is based on this martyr. They no doubt were anxious to use the rumors of Jesus having been seen after he was crucified. That would just play right into their hands. They created a Church of Christ and used it to restore law and order using the authority of the church to rule over the land. It worked so well, and they enforced it so violently that it became the major religious power of the region and beyond. Are you aware that it was the early Christian Church that actually went into Greece and very methodically proselytized the relation and gradually denounced the Greek religions as myths. Yes, it's true. For the Greeks the Greek Gods and Goddess were very real. They worshiped Zeus and Apollo with the same sincerity and devotion that Christian today worship Jehovah and Jesus. But via hardcore, threatening, and relentless proselytizing the Christians finally won the religious propaganda wars and eventually proclaims that the Greek Gods were myths and that their Jesus was the only real true God. They abused and used Jesus him to create a religion that spread hatred and fear throughout the world. You are now in the aftermath of all this. And those same authoritarians, used Jesus are now using you via their ugly hateful religious machinery. Sure, they are long dead gone. But they have still successfully brainwashed you just via pure momentum. They are using you to spread the same hatred and religious intolerance. You are preaching to people, "Either worship Christianity or go to hell!" It's has nothing to do with Jesus. Jesus was just used just like you are being use. They didn't kill him with the intention of using him. They killed him as an example to show the people that they won't tolerate civil protests. But then after they killed him he became such a martyr in the people's eyes that the uncouth authoritarians created a religion out of him to spread religious intolerance throughout the land. That's all you are doing here George. You're just spreading more religious intolerance. You preaching, "Either worship Christianity or go to hell!" Either bow down to this religion or God himself will shun you for all of eternity and you won't get a second chance! Get down on your knees right now and worship this RELIGION. You see George, it's not about love. It's not about personal salvation. That's just a guilt trip to get people like you to do precisely what the authors of the religion had in mind. Do you honestly believe that the creator of this universe could be as ruthless and cutthroat as the men who wrote these terrible hateful stories? Stories that portray God as an egotistical pig who will toss anyone into hell who doesn't bow down and worship him???? So you REALLY BELIEVE that the creator of this universe could be that disgusting? I, like many others here, have observed you for a while ,
and while i cannot say that i have read everything you have written here... I, among others really care for you and your soul, 
and it grieves us so , to see the obvious turmoil that on a daily basis, absolutely consumes you so... 
for i truly believe... that if you actually believed 100 % of all the things you say, you would not be on these forums every day ... you would be so wrapped up in the life you say is so free from bondage... yet every day you are here and with such fervor, i can't help but see such an imbalance... 
and i was just wondering.... and i am only saying this in love
for i would never want to hurt you in any way... 
I know a little of how very much your Mother means to you,
and I believe I read you say that she was a devout Christian and that you thought that if anyone deserves to go to Heaven it would be her ...
so with that in my mind and in my heart
I have a burning question.... 
I'd like to ask you to please search your heart and soul ... You don't have to answer here unless you want to, of course, but i wonder what your Mother would think ... I just feel that she would be so grieved & so very sad 
to read some of the things you write , and i wonder what you think of the reaction that she might very well have .. since she was a devout Christian and loved you with all of her heart ,
and wanting the very best for you ...
would be devastated forever if her beloved begotten Son
were not with her and with God for all of Eternity ?
Althought I disagree with some things Abra said I believe per what I understood of what he wrote here that he was refering more to what most of the world considers truth about the system of Christianity from an outside perspective. If he mentioned the teachings of Christ I missed the refference. His statements were about religious politics applied in an ugly way, and hinted at the conversion method being coppied from other religions of that time. Is what he said the end all and be all of historical accuracy? I think not, I think there were more factors involved but I believe his statement here had a startling ring of truth. Maybe I missunderstood, but rather than speak against the belief in "God" or "Jesus" I believe he was speaking against the childish personification and personal ownership of these concepts that many have been known to engage in. If I were someone that was from elsewhere, and had spent my entire life in isolation away from earthly religion, and then was given information about a number of religions by default I would have to pass by Christianity as a religion. This has nothing to do with Christ or "God" but has more to do with the belief that they are unevolved entities much like some of the pagan gods, that lacked compassion or grace. For some people, acceptance of a higher power requires that the higher power be more evolved than they are, or at least personify the more evolved parts of their existence. |
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So BB - why do you want these kind of reminders? It seems to me that paying for such items is a strange kind of ownership psyche. Why do you feel the need to own such things? Not trying to be argumentative, I just don't understand. What I can understand is enjoying the beauty of art by a skilled and inspired mind and hand. But again there is a point at which OWNERSHIP seems selfish, an ego reinforcer and a waste of resouces. A gift, on the other hand, is most certainly a welcome part of my decor. Well so far as the statues and reliefs....if I look up at one of them I am reminded of what they represent. It is a reminder for myself, and a hint to those that visit my home and see them as to what I believe, of what is important in my mind. So far as the ego question I hold the items without claim to ownership of concept but they are indeed actual pieces of art even if mass produced rather than one of a kind items. So far as the tapestries I obviously use a number of tapestries, but I have two that are only accepted by some people so out of four tapestries I use two more than the other two, because they are more widely accepted. So far as clothes it can be an indication to those that understand symbology of what my leanings are for those who share some of the same thoughts so they might know we have something in common. So far as the rest...I had dubious feelings about some of the decorations in my house. I took down some of the framed art I had up at one point, and replaced it with the ceremonial pipes and drums that are too small for me to play because I simply thought they match my style better, and speak more to who I am than the artwork that was there previously. At one time all of my ceremonial or religious items were all on two shelves packed in tightly. I simply started spreading them out more rather than buy more items without significance to decorate with. |
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